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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by jazen View Post
    It's funny how religious conservatives, progressives, and feminists have seemingly united forces to remove anything they see as offensive.
    I think religious conservatives are just quietly sitting in the corner and giggling, watch their opponents tear themselves apart, while at the same time they basically get want they want when those movements achieve a "victory".
    They couldn't win this battle during the 80-00's, now their very opponent fight this battle for them.

    Meanwhile, when they get elected, they actually create facts and implement laws that restrict women on matters such as abortion and whatnot.

  2. #282
    ITT: lots of freeze peach activists complaining about developers changing their artistic vision as if this isn't the most normal thing in the world.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    ITT: lots of freeze peach activists complaining about developers changing their artistic vision as if this isn't the most normal thing in the world.
    I don't mind that at all, but this whole debacle reeks of hipocrisy, and this is something i detest.
    All these company's waving their LGBTQ+ flags during pride months to get some good boy points but when it comes to actually show they care, by doing the same in countrys where you can't openly admit being gay or trans, they all hide their tail between their legs.

    And Blizzard is no other, changing some 16 year old low res paintings in Karazhan nobody ever looks at anyway for virtue points because some devs can't keep their hands to themselves. Meanwhile, what they actually do is telling women, that the only way to feel safe, is by hiding their bodys, effectively body shaming them for being women.

    What i personally want to see is some actual change. No Francis Townsend, no WilmerHale, no telling the player base what they have to like, but instead listening to them, taking them and their time they've spent the last 16 years in their game seriously and value it.

    This has nothing to do with "freeze peach"

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    ITT: lots of freeze peach activists complaining about developers changing their artistic vision as if this isn't the most normal thing in the world.
    How does this follow any type of logic?

    Disagree with direction company takes something in
    Voice disagreement
    Mekh somehow thinks the person disagreeing wants to silence blizzard

    Draw me the line dude, noone said blizzard isn't allowed to say this stupid stuff, what people are reacting to,
    at least me, is the direction this implies, as in, a sanitized product.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Good thing their actions are NOT the opposite... cause they literally have not touched the player customization at all, they have done nothing but add.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You know different things have different reasons right?

    A- things that were likely made by some perverted freak at blizzard, who has since been fired, so time to change their cringy insert of their fellow co-worker they really had a crush on and loved to make a sexy artwork of them to put ingame, even though she kept saying no

    B- things that really jsut felto ff, and really needed to be changed to be more inclusive.
    I’m confused, it seems you are trying to say that because you are told to do these artworks, that you are a pervert or something? Or that because you do it, it makes you one? Going by that logic, the novella I wrote would mean I am a serial killer with a deep underlying problem related to child abuse. Spoiler alert, I wasn’t abused as a child or have the temptation for murder.

    It confuses me because there is no way anyone would seriously think that. That’s up there with the boomers saying “video games make people go grrr”

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    I cannot believe we re going through this parody LMFAO
    Parody is indeed the best word to describe this. The best content they have come up with in a while: watching ActiBlizz shoot itself in the foot over and over again.

    /popcorn

  7. #287
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    I’m confused, it seems you are trying to say that because you are told to do these artworks, that you are a pervert or something? Or that because you do it, it makes you one? Going by that logic, the novella I wrote would mean I am a serial killer with a deep underlying problem related to child abuse. Spoiler alert, I wasn’t abused as a child or have the temptation for murder.

    It confuses me because there is no way anyone would seriously think that. That’s up there with the boomers saying “video games make people go grrr”
    No, the reason i bring it up is because devs have confirmed, and even blizzard themselves have at this point confirmed, some of these things altered, have troubled stories behind them.

    Here is an example taliesin came up with to show what is being spoken about, and has been confirmed by devs at blizzard as "pretty accurate"

    Male developer hits on female developer, she turns him down.
    He puts a sexy nude lady artwork in game and says "I made this in your image, and now I will always be able to look at you as i imagine"
    Male developer has now made "nude" artwork of a co-worker who did not consent at all to it, and its now ingame... for everyone.. for years to remind her of him, even after hes long been fired. And now with the current stuff going on she finally reports it, and so it gets removed.


    just like how when all these people like alex afrasabi had their references removed when they were fired, these references of people who also were troublesome, are being removed.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Harthmut View Post
    I don't mind that at all, but this whole debacle reeks of hipocrisy

    The hipocrisy is weirdos only allowing artist to change or stand by their vision, if it suits them. Here, Blizzard is opting to change and the crowd is howling. And I guarantee you, it's the same crowd that started a petition to get the ending to Mass Effect 3 changed, because they didn't like it.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    No, the reason i bring it up is because devs have confirmed, and even blizzard themselves have at this point confirmed, some of these things altered, have troubled stories behind them.
    Wouldn't the more sensible thing to, you know, replace the original image with a similiar one, that removes the reference but leaves the overall context for an outsider the same?

    After all, i doubt that every interior Artist that has used said painting when decorating a room was aware of this story.

    Disregarding some paintings that have frankly been just censored, where the image of the person is pretty similiar, just less sexualized, which i think is still weird in this context.

    Not even mentioning that this "little" detail was completely omitted by Blizzard themselves, they said, those changes were made based on internal feedback, which frankly is a lot different to "Some of our artists designed this after female co workers without their consent".
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    just like how when all these people like alex afrasabi had their references removed when they were fired, these references of people who also were troublesome, are being removed.
    Except the Afrasiabi references are pretty much on the nose, i doubt the people that (re)used this painting even at Blizzard knew of this.
    Whereas virtually anyone who knows that Afrasiabi worked on WoW, realizes that a npc named "Afrasiabi" is a reference to him.

    Disregarding that those removed references to Afrasiabi change jackshit, it doesn't matter whether i turn in Onyxia's Head to an npc named "Field Marshal Afrasiabi" or "Field Marshal Stonebridge", whereas changing the painting of a half naked women to that a fruitbowl represents a shift in both content and tone.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-10-01 at 01:13 PM.

  10. #290
    Bloodsail Admiral shimargh's Avatar
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    Finally! the conservative church of Blizzard.

  11. #291
    Anyway, there's a simple solution to all of this: stop paying them. Stop paying for their products- any and all of them.

    If you don't support it, don't support it. I'm serious.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    The hipocrisy is weirdos only allowing artist to change or stand by their vision, if it suits them. Here, Blizzard is opting to change and the crowd is howling. And I guarantee you, it's the same crowd that started a petition to get the ending to Mass Effect 3 changed, because they didn't like it.
    Then please tell me, how is them changing a few lines and images helping the women who have been harassed and in one known case even driven to suicide?

    How does it contribute to a safer work environment for the employees where they don't have to live with 5 people in a one room apartment?

    How does it contribute to an overall better product in which women don't have the freedom to express themselves? It's just another "You think you do, but you don't" moment.

    It's not even like there's only half naked women in game to begin with. The only examples i can think of off the top of my head who do show a little more skin are Aleria and maybe Aggra and only because Jaina and Sylvanas have already been toned down in the last years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Anyway, there's a simple solution to all of this: stop paying them. Stop paying for their products- any and all of them.

    If you don't support it, don't support it. I'm serious.
    My sub ends this month and the game has already been deinstalled and my gold has been spent to NPC's.
    I'm not planning to go back.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Harthmut View Post
    My sub ends this month and the game has already been deinstalled and my gold has been spent to NPC's.
    I'm not planning to go back.
    Good. Keep up this same energy for any future Activision-Blizzard products. If they want to make a game for themselves (which they clearly appear to, even beyond these paltry attempts to sanitize content, just look at how they keep pushing ridiculous systems down the players' throats because they like them) then they can do just that. Make the game for themselves and any of the few stragglers with Stockholm Syndrome.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Good. Keep up this same energy for any future Activision-Blizzard products. If they want to make a game for themselves (which they clearly appear to, even beyond these paltry attempts to sanitize content, just look at how they keep pushing ridiculous systems down the players' throats because they like them) then they can do just that. Make the game for themselves and any of the few stragglers with Stockholm Syndrome.
    I will, I haven't bought D2 Remake, i refunded WC3 Reforged and I have deinstalled all of their games.
    It's not even the hipocrisy they show these days, it's the fact that all they care for is my wallet. They don't respect me as a customer and supporter of their products, they don't know what I and all the other players want anymore. They have alienated themselves from their playerbase. All of their games have turned into milking machines they want to hang on your wallet.

    If they made products that are worth my time and money, that'd be a whole other thing but the quality is ever declining. I want to play a game, not drown in chores.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Anyway, there's a simple solution to all of this: stop paying them. Stop paying for their products- any and all of them.

    If you don't support it, don't support it. I'm serious.
    It is going to happen.

    Go woke go broke is not for nothing a thing.
    They will destroy their products, disrespect the IPs made by better people that still had any passion for them. And then once all the money is gone they start to blame white, straith males for it this is going on for years now.

  16. #296
    They can fuck right off with their condescension of shallow attempts at being "progressive" with pathetic virtue signalling that has absolutely nothing to do with their internal affairs of harassments and discrimination.

    Blizzard can go rot, I ain't buying another product of theirs ever again... especially when they've also passed blame on their own customer base.
    Last edited by Daedius; 2021-10-01 at 12:49 PM.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    the only one who will feel more included by these kinds of changes is my deeply conservative christian mother.
    Without derailing too much off the topic (as this has popped up a few times), I feel like manner of describing things as a conservative/religious type of change is very nonsensical when one gets down to intent beyond what Hollywood or the stereotype seems to be of that subset of people. While some bad apples ruin the bunch, doesn't mean that apples in general are bad. Furthermore, every human is flawed and will sin (even Christians, the Bible's full of them)... but if we immediately discounted everything a person says or does based upon whether they have sinned or not, there'd be nothing left.

    Reality is that when it comes to what Blizz is doing, it's likely not in line with any sort of actual Christian world view. In essence, this comes down to the Commandments, specifically the ones relating to idols and bearing false witness, and how the situation is treated.

    While the average layman would think "Oh, that just means worshiping another religious idol is supposedly wrong!"... but that's not the entirety of what it means. The real meaning is that worshiping or making anything an idol is wrong, whether it's a religious idol or not. A good way to view this in a more palatable manner is to view it like an addiction or taking something to excess or problematic levels or causing one to fall morally astray. As an example, under this Christian world view, drinking alcohol in and of itself is actually fine. However, it devolves into idolatry of alcohol when it consumes or runs your life, or you take it to levels where it starts hurting others or you start violating other tenants of morality in service of alcohol. In essence, the alcohol itself is not good or bad, but your intentions and actions that revolve around or are driven by alcohol are what really matter.

    Keep in mind, anything can become an idol if we worship it... and humans loooove to make idols out of things, even themselves. A general sign that something has become an idol, whether it's a person or activity or organization/political party or belief or whatever, is when your actions and intention begin to revolve around said idol. You'll start making excuses or lying to yourself and others (an example of bearing false witness, btw) in order to feel better or justify your actions, or you may just abandon your morality or make up new morality that likely has no rationality to stand on. Obviously there are different degrees of idolatry where the lines get gray, but more often than not it's not hard to figure out when someone is idolizing something as you can reasonably deduce this from whether it's violating a Commandment. Even if you don't believe or know the Commandments, the concept intertwines in Natural law to where even those who know nothing of Christianity can come to the same end results.

    How this expands to what Blizz is doing is fairly simple. Under the Christian world view, a woman showing a little cleavage in a painting (or at all) isn't necessarily a bad thing (and neither is seeing it), but your intent behind your actions is everything. Appreciating the female form is absolutely normal and fine, but making it your idol is not. If you were a WoW artist who added this in because you liked getting your rocks off (or if you were a player doing this), that's obviously to the point where you're making it your idol. If you added it because you thought it fit the fantasy theme of the world or thought it looked nice, it's not an idol. What's the line between the two? Intent. There's no "I used the backdoor, so it's not sex!" type of excuses, as you known your intent is wrong. When you lie to others or even yourself in such a manner, you are bearing false witness.

    A more general view that incorporates this world view is that your intentions matter just as much as your actions. For example, donating to a charity because you want to help those in need is completely different from donating to charity to gain personal favor/fame or use a tax loophole. The action is the same in all cases, but the intent behind your actions are completely different. However, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, so actions themselves can be just as evil despite having good intentions behind it. When it comes to all the changes that Blizz is making instead of just the existence of the objects of change themselves, they are likely not in line with a Christian world view because their intent does not seem in line with any sort of rational morality based upon their actions and words, and I guarantee they're bearing false witness in regard to their intentions while idolizing certain beliefs that do not align with Christianity.

    I rambled on a bit, but this is a fun topic to discuss as many people (even self-proclaimed Christians) struggle with this topic. Heck, I'm only human and make mistakes all the time just like anyone else, so I can empathize with others concerning this topic. While I just gave a 10,000 feet overview the topic, I felt the need to point out how misconstrued rationalizing the actions of Blizz as actual Christian beliefs really is. As a rule, I wouldn't believe anything you see in Hollywood or from politicians with respect to religious concepts, as they're most likely skewed or wrong.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-10-01 at 12:54 PM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  18. #298
    >incubus instead of succubus
    >sexualizing women is not okay!
    >sexualizing men is totally fine though
    Got it.

  19. #299
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    But we know for fact that neithers of those are true so its a non issue to consider?
    Neither of what are true a shift of X number of team members, the team staying mostly the same but formula still changing?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    >incubus instead of succubus
    >sexualizing women is not okay!
    >sexualizing men is totally fine though
    Got it.
    Incubus and succubus
    > sexualizing is ok as long as it’s not just on sided.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #300
    For everyone complaining, it's about evolving with the times. 20 years is a looooong time, culture-wise. Imagine if we had video games in the 1950's. How different would they be in the 1970's? Look at movie themes and dialogue from 1970 to 1990. Gaming is influenced by cultural norms, y'all need to relax and stop being stuck in the early 2000's.

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