Some Flirts and Jokes Removed on the PTR, Fathom Dweller Available in NA, DLC #791

[Trbn]

If removing bad taste content - I don't care, but enough people want it gone - affects your gameplay experience, maybe you should develop some empathy. You're being selfish at that point. Because like you said, it's not essential component of the game, it's just 'I want it this way'.

So it still stands.

show me those people

[DarkAmbient]

If removing bad taste content - I don't care, but enough people want it gone - affects your gameplay experience, maybe you should develop some empathy. You're being selfish at that point. Because like you said, it's not essential component of the game, it's just 'I want it this way'.

So it still stands.

Someone who can't play a game because of stupid fart emotes or double-entendre quest titles needs professional therapy, not empathy from me.

[Byleth]

Look, at this point I will totally admit to being one of the people who was uncomfortable with some of the flirts and jokes.

Did I ever complain about them, no. Did I write to Blizz about them, no. Am I happy they're gone, absolutely.

That said, I had no issues with any painting, quests, or NPC. I used to have no issues with emotes, until people decided to weaponise them.

The point I'm getting at is that just because something is true for you or me, does not mean it's true for all. Try to understand the other side of this, and where others are coming from. We're all different.

[DarkAmbient]

Look, at this point I will totally admit to being one of the people who was uncomfortable with some of the flirts and jokes.

Did I ever complain about them, no. Did I write to Blizz about them, no. Am I happy they're gone, absolutely.

That said, I had no issues with any painting, quests, or NPC. I used to have no issues with emotes, until people decided to weaponise them.

The point I'm getting at is that just because something is true for you or me, does not mean it's true for all. Try to understand the other side of this, and where others are coming from. We're all different.

Would you mind explaining which specific things you had/have an issue with, how they made you feel and why they made you feel that way? I would be interested to hear it.

[DingDongKing]

Would you mind explaining which specific things you had/have an issue with, how they made you feel and why they made you feel that way? I would be interested to hear it.

No no, you think people like that need professional therapy, right?

[Kumorii]

If removing bad taste content - I don't care, but enough people want it gone - affects your gameplay experience, maybe you should develop some empathy. You're being selfish at that point. Because like you said, it's not essential component of the game, it's just 'I want it this way'.

So it still stands.

The selfish part works both ways you know. People removing it because they feel uncomfortable is a selfish act. It's a non argument. Everyone argues their point from their pov and people who shares it. It's not more selfish to want to keep things ingame for one self AND others than wanting to remove it for one self AND others. They are equal in that regard.

Thinking one is less selfish is just bias. Because everyone always believe their stance and change is for the betterment for majority.

[Menog]

Look, at this point I will totally admit to being one of the people who was uncomfortable with some of the flirts and jokes.

Did I ever complain about them, no. Did I write to Blizz about them, no. Am I happy they're gone, absolutely.

That said, I had no issues with any painting, quests, or NPC. I used to have no issues with emotes, until people decided to weaponise them.

The point I'm getting at is that just because something is true for you or me, does not mean it's true for all. Try to understand the other side of this, and where others are coming from. We're all different.

When I read that it makes me wonder why you play an online game if you can't stand the social interaction. Why would you subject yourself to something you can't stand?

[DingDongKing]

The selfish part works both ways you know. People removing it because they feel uncomfortable is a selfish act. It's a non argument. Everyone argues their point from their pov and people who shares it. It's not more selfish to want to keep things ingame for one self AND others than wanting to remove it for one self AND others. They are equal in that regard.

Thinking one is less selfish is just bias. Because everyone always believe their stance and change is for the betterment for majority.

It’s a case of balance. The people asking for it to stay are split between ‘oh but woke’ and ‘it’s not even offensive!’ Neither is an open stance. The people asking for it to go have lived with it. And now they want it gone. If anything having tolerated it so far shows they’re not as selfish…

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When I read that it makes me wonder why you play an online game if you can't stand the social interaction. Why would you subject yourself to something you can't stand?

Because their liking for the game trumps the social issues, the latter of which can actually be addressed. It’s not rocket science.

[DarkAmbient]

No no, you think people like that need professional therapy, right?

Yes, that's my current view. I don't think it speaks to a healthy state of mind that the kind of content being removed or altered could cause significant discomfort.

But I'm always happy to change my mind when the evidence demands it. I'd like to hear what they have to say.

[DingDongKing]

Yes, that's my current view. I don't think it speaks to a healthy state of mind that the kind of content being removed or altered could cause significant discomfort.

But I'm always happy to change my mind when the evidence demands it. I'd like to hear what they have to say.

And screaming woke at everything is totally healthy…

[DarkAmbient]

And screaming woke at everything is totally healthy…

The only one of us to use that word here is you.

[Moozart]

One more step in cleaning it up for sale to Disney.

[DingDongKing]

The only one of us to use that word here is you.

Was referring to the general tone of the thread, pal.

[Kumorii]

It’s a case of balance. The people asking for it to stay are split between ‘oh but woke’ and ‘it’s not even offensive!’ Neither is an open stance. The people asking for it to go have lived with it. And now they want it gone. If anything having tolerated it so far shows they’re not as selfish…

That sounds like it should be put on a rotation. "you had it for this long, now we will have it for this long". Balance isn't swinging it to on end and then swing it to the other.

Neither of it changes the fact it's a selfish act. The point is that the argument "you're selfish" is a non argument. Both are "selfish". Being selfish isn't even a bad thing in most cases. Even though it has negative connotations. But almost everything has some aspect of selfishness to it.
In this case however when we talk about hundreds of thousands or millions having their own preferences in either direction selfishness doesn't really apply, in the sense that either side might argue for their personal reasons(selfishness) but also for others preferences(not selfish).

[DingDongKing]

That sounds like it should be put on a rotation. "you had it for this long, now we will have it for this long". Balance isn't swinging it to on end and then swing it to the other.

Neither of it changes the fact it's a selfish act. The point is that the argument "you're selfish" is a non argument. Both are "selfish". Being selfish isn't even a bad thing in most cases. Even though it has negative connotations. But almost everything has some aspect of selfishness to it.
In this case however when we talk about hundreds of thousands or millions having their own preferences in either direction selfishness doesn't really apply, in the sense that either side might argue for their personal reasons(selfishness) but also for others preferences(not selfish).

Removing something that is deemed offensive by a fairly decent number of people is not selfish. Especially if it's not something make or break, and the people whining about are just screaming 'emergerd woke!' 'ermergered cancel culture'. They don't give a shit. They just like the discord.

When I say balance, I don't mean rotation. I mean, the balance of the situation. Is what is being removed an important component to the people whining about it? No, it's just flavour shit. What about the people on the other side of the table? It's important to their experience.

So...on the BALANCE of it, it makes more sense to remove it.

[Orby]

I don't always like the content the dude puts out but Taliesin had a pretty good take on this whole thing in his last Weekly Reset. I'll link the whole thing below but the important part starts at 9:24.


If you can't stand his pompous British accent, the tl,dr is basically --

Yes, some of this shit's a bit over-the-top but we have first hand accounts from the developers themselves stating that the removal of a lot of it is lacking context because of things which happened at Blizzard behind closed doors. And yeah, it's perfectly fair to be a little upset about some of them. And yeah, it's even okay to feel like you don't want to play the game anymore because of it. But with the information from the developers themselves it's abundantly clear that these changes aren't in response to the lawsuit or the result of "woke culture" taking over at Blizzard. These are changes made by the developers of the game to make the fantasy world (of Warcraft) feel less weird and more inclusive. And I know, just reading that last word probably set off alarm bells for some people but really, that's not a WoW problem... that's a you problem.

And personally, I think if that kind of stuff offends you so much, maybe the game's better off without you.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To be honest, I also liked his last video explaining the removals. And yes I am not a huge fan of the guy either (and I am British lol), the guy is toxic as all hell on his streams, or back when I used to watch so maybe he's gotten better (?). Can't be assed to watch so thanks for the tdlr.

Personally I aint even mad at these being removed but have ben boggled by the reasoning. Some are very explanatory, but others are like 'why?'. I stopped playing WoW back in January the accusations only solidified me wanting to keep away from any of Blizzards old IP going forward. So for me they can do what they want. I am happier elsewhere, enjoying the games I love instead of sulking about game sI no longer do.

[Kumorii]

Removing something that is deemed offensive by a fairly decent number of people is not selfish. Especially if it's not something make or break, and the people whining about are just screaming 'emergerd woke!' 'ermergered cancel culture'. They don't give a shit. They just like the discord.

My entire point is that neither stance is selfish because it expands beyond one self. It includes multiple people from all across the globe. So you are correct it's not selfish to remove it. Same as it is not selfish to want to keep them. So close.

[DingDongKing]

My entire point is that neither stance is selfish because it expands beyond one self. It includes multiple people from all across the globe. So you are correct it's not selfish to remove it. Same as it is not selfish to want to keep them. So close.

Insisting something offensive to someone else be retained in an experience, even when it isn't vital to the person petitioning for it to stay, IS selfish.

Imagine if I was inviting two people over for snacks. I initially decided to make a peanut butter sandwich snack for everyone. But one person has a peanut allergy, whilst the other doesn't. So I decide to make a snack without peanuts. And the person who isn't allergic to peanuts throws a strop and insists on a snack with peanuts, because I'm being too accommodating of the person with the peanut allergy. Is that selfish or not?

[Kumorii]

Insisting something offensive to someone else be retained in an experience, even when it isn't vital to the person petitioning for it to stay, IS selfish.

Nope. Also if we gonna play the game that we are supposed to remove everything because someone find it offensive then you can't have anything in the game. Anyone can find anything offensive.

[DingDongKing]

Nope. Also if we gonna play the game that we are supposed to remove everything because someone find it offensive then you can't have anything in the game. Anyone can find anything offensive.

By saying 'anyone can find anything offensive', you're assuming that there is a lack of reason and thought behind decision making. So let's leave it.

The developers aren't just going to go, 'well there's a set of people who find the colour yellow offensive, so let's remove it'.