Some Flirts and Jokes Removed on the PTR, Fathom Dweller Available in NA, DLC #791

[Graeham]

The good 'ol days when you could get into voice chat and spew a nonstop stream of gamer words and it just meant you had a backbone.

...of all the things to romanticize.

They're just words at the end of the day. People say all sorts of dumb things during their lives and particularly when experiencing stress or strong emotions.

I don't believe in punishing people and condemning them to misery over isolated incidents.

Some people get extremely offended by such words, certainly. Yet as a gay guy myself if someone insulted me based on my sexuality and it wasn't explicitly targeted in such a manner I'd just shrug and move on with my life.

Most of this recent trend of people being offended is coming from grifters and narcissists who stand to profit, at any rate. Either financially or through being seen as virtuous in the eyes of their peers...or both.

History works in cycles, at any rate. I just hope that the pendulum doesn't swing too far in the opposite direction once the masses tire of supporting this sort of nonsense. I believe most people just want to get on with their lives without other people serving as curtain twitchers in an effort to find something to get others in trouble over.

[Dacia Ultan]

I don't believe in punishing people and condemning them to misery over isolated incidents.

Good thing only someone out-of-touch and living in comfort, with no grit or backbone, would consider that to be happening here.

[Graeham]

Good thing only someone very sheltered, with no grit or backbone, would consider that to be happening here.

That doesn't even make sense in the context of what I said. Nice try, though!

[uuuhname]

Good thing only someone very sheltered, with no grit or backbone, would consider that to be happening here.

the drama some people experience over a few words is something to behold.

[GratsDing45]

Good thing only someone out-of-touch and living in comfort, with no grit or backbone, would consider that to be happening here.

Well considering George is a massive WoW fan boy, getting a horde tattoo, always rocking Warcraft 3 shirts, promoting shadowlands on CC's last album promo, probably already struggling to continue playing and supporting the game after the whole lawsuit. Removal of his name in game he loves because of some comments he made in 2007... I'd imagine anyone would be miserable to a degree. I think most WoW players are miserable. It seems that way anyway compared to FF14

[Dacia Ultan]

That doesn't even make sense in the context of what I said. Nice try, though!

Actually, it does. Only an incredibly soft, oversensitive person would seriously consider anyone to have been "punished" or "condemned to misery" by these changes.

[Graeham]

Actually, it does. Only an incredibly soft, oversensitive person would seriously consider anyone to have been "punished" or "condemned to misery" by these changes.

Nope.

At any rate, not that your arguments had much weight to them in the first place due to that whole 'perpetual chip atop the shoulder' thing I pointed out, this has simply devolved into back and forth one line responses.

Which I shall take as a sign that it isn't worth engaging you any further.

[GratsDing45]

Actually, it does. Only an incredibly soft, oversensitive person would seriously consider anyone to have been "punished" or "condemned to misery" by these changes.

Maybe your right. Maybe it's time Corpsegrinder wakes up and joins FF14, definitely a positive thing

[Graeham]

Well considering George is a massive WoW fan boy, getting a horde tattoo, always rocking Warcraft 3 shirts, promoting shadowlands on CC's last album promo, probably already struggling to continue playing and supporting the game after the whole lawsuit. Removal of his name in game he loves because of some comments he made in 2007... I'd imagine anyone would be miserable to a degree. I think most WoW players are miserable. It seems that way anyway compared to FF14

FFXIV isn't perfect, though the community does generally seem a lot happier by comparison. Plus there's a new expansion out in exactly a month's time, so things are looking pretty good for the foreseeable future.

[Dacia Ultan]

Nope.

Got an actual rebuttal, then? Because, seriously: you'd have to be a total snowflake in order to actually believe that anyone is being "punished," much less "condemned to misery," by the changes.

At any rate, not that your arguments had much weight to them in the first place due to that whole 'perpetual chip atop the shoulder' thing I pointed out, this has simply devolved into back and forth one line responses.

See previous. And I suppose "well, I'm gay and it doesn't bother me; therefore, everyone who disagrees is a wimp!" is totally a sound argument. And accusing the first person who questions you of having a "perpetual chip atop the shoulder" totally helps either your case or your imagined tough-guy image.

Which I shall take as a sign that it isn't worth engaging you any further.

By all means, go run along and flounce because you don't have a rebuttal and can't handle being contradicted. Way to show everyone your "grit and backbone" and how "rough around the edges" you are.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think a lot of people (and some intentionally) missed the cause of these changes. These changes are being put in place because Blizzard is under Federal investigation for widespread sexual harassment charges. So of course their response is to remove anything in-game that might reflect supporting that behavior as a knee-jerk reaction. They are not removing them coincidentally right now in the middle of that investigation due to 'cancel culture' complaining about them, or because people are picketing in from of the Blizzard HQ due about flirts and jokes, despite what some have tried to paint it as. Most of them have been in-game for many years and no one in the past or recently has complained. It's simply because they are trying to limit criminal and civil liability.

This is often the reason complaints about cancel culture don't hold much water, since they usually try to ignore or downplay from the act that was done in the first place to cause the 'cancelling'. Instead of taking responsibility for bad behavior, they try to shift the blame to those pointing out on what they did and pretend they are overreacting.

The devs have already said this isn’t from corporate so it has nothing to do liability.

A bunch of sexual harassers put in questionable stuff and the people they harassed now have the power to take it out, simple as.

[Dacia Ultan]

A bunch of sexual harassers put in questionable stuff and the people they harassed now have the power to take it out, simple as.

Still say that gets fiddly when the "questionable stuff" includes fart jokes. And, seriously: Gerald Abernathy is never going to not be creepy.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Still say that gets fiddly when the "questionable stuff" includes fart jokes. And, seriously: Gerald Abernathy is never going to not be creepy.

It depends on the actions of the actual harasses something that could other wise be seen as harmless could have direct links to actual harassment which we would never know of.

[Dacia Ultan]

It depends on the actions of the actual harasses something that could other wise be seen as harmless could have direct links to actual harassment which we would never know of.

I can only really see there being any direct link if it was an attempt to humiliate a specific person, and still find it more likely that some of the jokes were removed for being lame or dated. And I re-iterate that Abernathy is never going to not be creepy.

[Khaza-R]

A bunch of sexual harassers put in questionable stuff and the people they harassed now have the power to take it out, simple as.

I find that unlikely. From what I've read it seems more like AVB gave some vocal devs the reigns to remove things they personally found offensive. Seems there's really no oversight on what they are doing which is why we are seeing a wild range of some changes that make sense to others that are highly questionable as to why they are being made in the first place.

[Relapses]

I find that unlikely. From what I've read it seems more like AVB gave some vocal devs the reigns to remove things they personally found offensive. Seems there's really no oversight on what they are doing which is why we are seeing a wild range of some changes that make sense to others that are highly questionable as to why they are being made in the first place.

Exactly what oversight does Blizzard need to make changes to their own game?

[Dacia Ultan]

Exactly what oversight does Blizzard need to make changes to their own game?

To be honest: I see what's going on here, and it's all too reminiscent of the #KeepGamingFantasy wank. The situation is being spuriously spun as an external attack by outsiders, who are portrayed—to paraphrase Umberto Eco—as simultaneously too strong (a threat to the game we know and love!) and too weak (oversensitive and easily offended).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I find that unlikely. From what I've read it seems more like AVB gave some vocal devs the reigns to remove things they personally found offensive. Seems there's really no oversight on what they are doing which is why we are seeing a wild range of some changes that make sense to others that are highly questionable as to why they are being made in the first place.

I mean the dev's have said that's whats going on and there's no reason to think they would lie.

- - - Updated - - -

I can only really see there being any direct link if it was an attempt to humiliate a specific person, and still find it more likely that some of the jokes were removed for being lame or dated. And I re-iterate that Abernathy is never going to not be creepy.

No reason it can't be both people like Alex had a ton of influence on the game after all.

[Khaza-R]

I mean the dev's have said that's whats going on and there's no reason to think they would lie.

I suppose. Personally, I've never seen them say as much. It just seemed like a random collection of that different devs found problematic and so they removed it. I've not seen any elaboration that what they've removed had anything to do with things former devs created.

No reason it can't be both people like Alex had a ton of influence on the game after all.

Perhaps. Important to remember that we was brought on board pretty late into vanilla WoW's development. He's not nearly as much of a cornerstone to the game that people think he is.

[SinR]

every time you think think this thread is dead...