1. #1

    Trolls may have evolved from bog beasts/fen kreepers or similar beings

    I just saw ridiculous speculation that trolls potentially evolved from dinosaurs which seems highly unlikely. IMO fen kreepers are a much better fit for an ancestral race. It is mentioned some types of trolls like the Amani can grow moss on their skin.

    Most of the other races have some proto-species and explained origin but "prehistory" of trolls is curiously missing. There aren't that many options for their ancestry from what we know. It can be something connected to the Old Gods, something connected to elementals or something connected to Wild Gods/Loa. Of the beings I could think of bog beasts or something similar seem like the best fit, certainly better than something with tentacles or Rezan the dinosaur god.

    I think possible connection is more obvious if you compare general build of bog kreepers and dire trolls. I know it's probably for technical reasons but in vanilla I vaguely remember they shared either same or very similar skeletons and even if they didn't similarities are more visible than in the build of normal trolls. We don't know exactly how dire trolls are made, but perhaps some kind of magic or junk magical chemicals can "awaken their ancient genetics" . In any case it's the best I could think of.

    Been reading the Chronicle lately and became curious about trolls. Looked for theories of others but none of the offered explanations satisfied my curiousity. So I came up with this and thought to share it. It is what it is but I guess it can serve as my own headcanon for now. I'm not saying it's true, just throwing the possibility out there.
    Last edited by Lazar; 2021-10-05 at 08:09 PM.

  2. #2
    So, Void Elves evolved from Bog Beasts?

  3. #3
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Well, looking at the Zandalari, from whom supposedly most troll offshoots delineated, there are hints of evidence they evolved from dinosaurs; it would also explain the vestigial toenail/dew claw on the back of their heels that persists in all known troll subspecies. The biggest, of course, being their scales, patterened similar to dinosaur hides. That forest trolls grew moss and jungle/island trolls grew soft fur speaks more to adaptation to their environments over time, both to their environments and, after their empires fell, to more primitive lifestyles where cultivating a layer of fur or moss would help with exposure to the elements and camouflage.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Villager720's Avatar
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    I'm still skeptical they weren't somehow related to Drogbar. (Yes, its implied they're of titan origin and the trolls are supposed to be 'native', but the only source for that titan allegation is a notoriously untrustworthy void blade.) They always looked like proto-trolls to me - akin to Earthen and Dwarves. Maybe once some left the deep places of the earth, they got less stoney and adapted to new environs. Hell, Zandalari even still have stoney bits on their skin. We know trolls change based on biome, so going from earth to forest/ice/sand/jungle isn't unbelievable.
    And then there is that quest that referred to them as "Rock Troll".

  5. #5
    Dreadlord saintminya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    So, Void Elves evolved from Bog Beasts?
    If this theory happens to prove correct, then yes. I hope it does, as it makes enough sense, especially over dinosaurs or having been spawned directly as Trolls. That would be such a beautifully hilarious line of evolution too: from bog beast to primal yet civilised humanoid, to arguably more civilised purple elf, to significantly smaller yet more civilised elf, and finally to corrupted void beast.

  6. #6
    Only thing I can say is: Why not? XD. It's been 12 years since I've played WoW, my knowledge of new lore is a bit rusty and the last brush with it were the chronicles so I'm not that knowledgable about technicalities of void elves. But as things stand high elves already look and live much diferently than trolls even though they are their confirmed descendant. It's hillarious really. Pompous elves being distantly descended from bog beasts XD. Complete inversion of LOTR elves. Then again if you go back far enough humans in real life are descendants of an amphibian so there's that.

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    Hmm, didn't know about these beings. Thanks for pointing them out. Like I've mentioned last I've played WoW was 2009. Although I've been lurkingly checking out lore since then most of my forays into it were related to the expanded past. I've enjoyed chronicles. As for everything after wotlk I just take parts what I like. There was far too much lore breaking especially with Broken isles which look nothing like their description from old lore. Probably why I missed drobar. They do seem a good fit for troll ancestors and they use dire troll skeleton. It would mean trolls are also result of titan intervention.

    Now why didn't anyone else mention them before when I was looking. Both them and bog beasts are certainly better fit than dinosaurs yet there are several threads both here and on reddit talk about dinos and Wild Gods XD. For me at least those two options are out of the question. As for origin via drogbar and bog beasts, the only way to combine these two theories is if titans need an existing being for their experiments which they throw into the forge, then they'd take bog beasts and turn them into drogbar. Other than that I'm more or less convinced by your argument. GJ

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    That would be such a great cycle.

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    Checking out what "advanced reply" means. Pay no heed to this

  7. #7
    It's sad to me that Blizz has kept it mysterious. All we know is they were "something else" before they made their bargain that tied them to the Loa. There's three main trains of thought in my mind.

    1. Drogbar.
    There's some hints of them as Stone Trolls. Their elemental nature may mean they are a race of elemental beings that resisted being banished to Deepholme, as some creatures are stated to be.

    2. Grell.
    Grell seem like they are similarly former elemental creatures, related to Flame Imps from the Firelands. Possibly integrated (or created) by Aessina. Their faces resemble Trolls, and they seem to have enough smarts to forge metal.

    3. Something reptillian.

    I've always preferred the second theory. Due to the hindclaw, and the scaly or stony patches on Zandalari.



    And no, I find it very unlikely they are bog beasts. The things seem like oozes. Not smart creatures capable of worship and making deals with the Loa.

  8. #8
    We know Loa are wild gods, and wild gods appear after the ordering of azeroth, after the emerald dream was created.

    I always thought that native azeroth species were descendants of wild gods, thats why they have animal forms or close to them, and it doesnt seem that any of them existed before the ordering.

    Trolls, descendants from a tiger/dinosaur wild god/loa, tauren from a bull, pandaren from a bear, goblins from... whatever mimiron experimented, probably a rat.

    The same way harpies are the children of aviana

  9. #9
    Dreadlord saintminya's Avatar
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    Of all the options presented here so far, I believe Trolls evolving from Grell would be the most likely. Far more likely than them having come from dinosaurs, and quite a bit more likely than from bog beasts or other similar beasts regardless of how amusing that would be. It really wouldn't be all that dissimilar to how the Jinyu came into existence by way of Murlocs bathing in the enchanted waters of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms.

    On a semi-related note: has it still not been confirmed that Goblins are descendants of Trolls who suffered from island dwarfism, who of course then gained superior intelligence through kajamite/azerite? Superficially, Grell and Goblins are quite similar.
    Last edited by saintminya; 2021-10-09 at 01:57 PM.

  10. #10
    Trolls could have been a first gen emergent race on Azeroth. So, shit like Boars and Tigers and Wolves can emerge naturally, out of thin air, therefore so can Trolls.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by saintminya View Post
    On a semi-related note: has it still not been confirmed that Goblins are descendants of Trolls who suffered from island dwarfism, who of course then gained superior intelligence through kajamite/azerite? Superficially, Grell and Goblins are quite similar.
    No, goblins have confirmed origins involving ulduar and mimiron. It's on their wiki page.
    d=(^_^)z

  12. #12
    Dreadlord saintminya's Avatar
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    Ah, I see. Looks like their descendants were some as-yet-unnamed race related to Pygmies that hung around the woods of Ulduar. Thanks for pointing that out.

  13. #13
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintminya View Post
    Of all the options presented here so far, I believe Trolls evolving from Grell would be the most likely. Far more likely than them having come from dinosaurs, and quite a bit more likely than from bog beasts or other similar beasts regardless of how amusing that would be. It really wouldn't be all that dissimilar to how the Jinyu came into existence by way of Murlocs bathing in the enchanted waters of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms.

    On a semi-related note: has it still not been confirmed that Goblins are descendants of Trolls who suffered from island dwarfism, who of course then gained superior intelligence through kajamite/azerite? Superficially, Grell and Goblins are quite similar.
    nah that was a cooler more plausible fan theory. goblins origins in the chronicle was, they were a creation of mimiron. Just like of course the race that was written out to be their rival.

    "we were brothers all along" trope for the two races that are comic relief.

  14. #14
    Elves are dinosaurs, confirmed.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Elves are dinosaurs, confirmed.
    10.1 Thrall goes back in time to laid some raptors, this is how Zandalari trolls were made, explains why trolls ride raptors and bow down to orcs.
    I want these classes in new x-pac Necromancer,RuneMaster,Warden,BladeMaster,DarkRanger,Dragonsworn,Alchemist,Bard,Spellbreak er

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