Poll: Dou you lean Right or left?

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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    gotta shake up the echo chamber here and there

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    im not the federal govt.
    Take it to Stormfront. You and Machismo will fit right in.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    gotta shake up the echo chamber here and there

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    im not the federal govt.
    And yet, you support the federal government doing those things... which is why you voted for national socialists who promised to do it for you.

    So, that buys you nothing.

    That's like actual Nazis saying they weren't responsible, because the government did it. Nah, dog.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  3. #163
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Take it to Stormfront. You and Machismo will fit right in.
    but then i'd be in an opposite echo chamber. where's the battleground?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And yet, you support the federal government doing those things... which is why you voted for national socialists who promised to do it for you.

    So, that buys you nothing.

    That's like actual Nazis saying they weren't responsible, because the government did it. Nah, dog.
    yes i want the federal govt to do good things, not bad things

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    but then i'd be in an opposite echo chamber. where's the battleground?
    Just to confirm, you are saying you would be in an echo chamber of Nazis and white supremacists, and there would be no disagreement with them?

    Well, this is awkward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    but then i'd be in an opposite echo chamber. where's the battleground?

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    yes i want the federal govt to do good things, not bad things
    Good things like what, exactly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  5. #165
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Just to confirm, you are saying you would be in an echo chamber of Nazis and white supremacists, and there would be no disagreement with them?

    Well, this is awkward.

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    Good things like what, exactly?
    an echo chamber is any place overwhelmed with a singular ideology

    immigration halt, segregation for mutual benefit

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    an echo chamber is any place overwhelmed with a singular ideology

    immigration halt, segregation for mutual benefit
    You just implied they shared your ideology.

    So, forced racial discrimination. That's late 1940's Nazi Germany right there. What if they resist?

    Yep, no wonder you guys share the same ideology.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-10-08 at 04:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  7. #167
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Silly. Clearly he was banned because he was conservative. Not because he's flagrantly breaking the rules.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  8. #168
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Pretending we are not denying the basic right of an unborn child to be born here. It might not be covered within the human rights, an oversight of young humanitarianism perhaps, but it is considered a basic right in almost every single religion and various other ideologies.
    There is not one other instance where Human Being A's right to life is deemed to overrule Human Being B's right to bodily autonomy. We don't harvest organs or tissue from those who don't volunteer, for instance. We don't even do that if Human Being B has died, not without permission from a loved one.

    Even if we grant that a fetus at that level of development qualifies as a human being at all (this is by no means an easy argument to make, and inherently involves pseudo-religious arguments if not straight-up religious ones; there is no scientific or rational basis for this conclusion), it still cannot possibly justify a pro-life stance, not unless you consider a woman's right to control the use of her own body to not be a right that she holds.

    Which is misogynistic subjugation of women.

    Hence the point.

    Pro-life is inherently misogynistic, and there is no way to get around that.

    The concept that suffering is sometimes necessary to keep the world just is hardly new or unusual.
    Not often that people admit that cruelty is the point of a policy. But there you go.

    PS: I'm not against abortion, but it's a bit wrong to try and portray this as some sort of obvious good vs evil choice. The subject is a lot more complex than that, and most people aren't pro-abortion because they want to defend women's rights or see no harm in killing fetuses, but because abortion might be a necessary evil to limit further unnecessary suffering.
    Nobody is "pro-abortion". They're pro-choice. As in; a woman and her doctor should be the only ones deciding what medical procedures are relevant to her situation.

    It is not a "necessary evil", because it's not "evil" in the first place.

    Nor did I bring up "good" or "evil". I simply pointed out that pro-life stances are inherently, irrevocably rooted in denying women basic human rights and equality. Which they are. In every single instance. Does that make them "evil"? Probably, but that's a moral judgement. That the position is misogynistic and discriminatory and subjugatory is not a moral judgement; it's simple observational fact.


  9. #169
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    PS: I'm not against abortion, but it's a bit wrong to try and portray this as some sort of obvious good vs evil choice. The subject is a lot more complex than that, and most people aren't pro-abortion because they want to defend women's rights or see no harm in killing fetuses, but because abortion might be a necessary evil to limit further unnecessary suffering.
    Ending abortions isn't really the goal of pro-lifer. If it was they would promote alternatives like contraception, the morning after pill, and so on. Abortions will still happen even if it's banned, it just makes it less safe for women to have them. Just like prohibition of alcohol forced people to go underground with their alcohol consumption, banning abortions will just force women to use coat hangers or underground procedures.

    This fact seems to evade every pro-lifers that goes on about the morality of an abortion but ignore the consequences of what would happen otherwise. It doesn't help their case that many of them oppose the alternatives as well, which is why it's not difficult to call out their misogyny. They just view women as baby factories, not an individual worthy of choices, good health, and self-determination.
    Last edited by downnola; 2021-10-08 at 05:44 PM.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Pretending we are not denying the basic right of an unborn child to be born here.
    The rights of unborn children are protected by the law.

    Until a fetus is viable outside the womb it's not a child.

    The rights of a non viable collection of self replicating cells do not and should never trump the rights of an actual existing person to their health, well-being, life, bodily autonomy and personal independence.

    For clarity sake.

    The Bible has (or the Torah) has absolutely no prohibition against abortion. The singular time abortion is mentioned in the entire text...it actually endorses abortions describing how the husband should force his wife to have one if he suspects she's bearing another man's child.

    It's exhausting to have to constantly tell religious loons to read their own books.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The rights of unborn children are protected by the law.

    Until a fetus is viable outside the womb it's not a child.

    The rights of a non viable collection of self replicating cells do not and should never trump the rights of an actual existing person to their health, well-being, life, bodily autonomy and personal independence.

    For clarity sake.

    The Bible has (or the Torah) has absolutely no prohibition against abortion. The singular time abortion is mentioned in the entire text...it actually endorses abortions describing how the husband should force his wife to have one if he suspects she's bearing another man's child.

    It's exhausting to have to constantly tell religious loons to read their own books.
    I don't think Rochana is religious, they just hate women having bodily autonomy. that's what it always boils down to with those people.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    The discussion is always about when a fetus could be considered a child or not. That isn't something that science can determine and claim the sole authority over. Science is only one opinion, philosophy has many more which are just as valid.


    There are many different interpretations. It is not because you found a singular paragraph somewhere in their religious texts that this suddenly becomes the ultimate truth of their religion. There are as always many other paragraphs and texts that might contradict those statements, it is thus all up for interpretation and currently it seems the most popular interpretations are that abortion is not that liked.
    Your religion doesn't belong in my government.

    This is a common tactic of Trumpsters, trying to use religion as a shield to justify their bigotry and oppression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    I'm not very religious. I just understand their point of view. Understanding and dialogue are neither a sin nor something evil.
    Luckily, Florida is a secular state, so religion doesn't belong in government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  14. #174
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    The discussion is always about when a fetus could be considered a child or not. That isn't something that science can determine and claim the sole authority over. Science is only one opinion, philosophy has many more which are just as valid.
    No. It is not. Abortion rights have nothing to do with whether the fetus is a human being or not. Literally nothing. As I said earlier, even if we allow for that hypothetical, it becomes a case of "do we infringe upon Person A's bodily autonomy to protect Person B's right to life"?

    And there's an obvious, universal answer to that question. "Fuck no." If that question were answered with a "yes", then you'd be supporting forced harvesting of blood and organs and other tissues from unwilling people, by the government, on the basis that "these will save someone's life".

    The simple truth is that bodily autonomy trumps right-to-life in every case. Even if the person whose bodily rights are in question is deceased. Pro-life positions seek to give women less recognition as human beings than we grant to dead bodies, let alone living human beings.

    It doesn't matter if the fetus is considered a human being. If it is, the only option not based solely on misogyny is still full support for abortion rights. That it's even a question whether the fetus can be considered a human being just makes pro-life positions that much more abusive.

    No one is pro-life and also respectful of women as the equals of men. Just like nobody can think black people are the social and legal equals of white people, and support chattel slavery of blacks. It's that level of direct contradiction.

    There are many different interpretations. It is not because you found a singular paragraph somewhere in their religious texts that this suddenly becomes the ultimate truth of their religion. There are as always many other paragraphs and texts that might contradict those statements, it is thus all up for interpretation and currently it seems the most popular interpretations are that abortion is not that liked.
    Fuck the "intepretations". Religion is something personal. Statements that "I can't do that because of my religion" are fine. Statements that "You can't do that because of my religion" are tyranny and religious oppression. If your religion says abortion is bad, you're free to not choose to have an abortion. You are not free to try and deny that right to others, not unless you want to rightly be called out as a religious fascist who's attacking people's basic human rights. Including their freedom of religion, in this case. Denying people their rights because of your religion is just you explaining that you're a bigot and your interpretation of your religion is bigoted and abusive. It isn't a defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    I'm not very religious. I just understand their point of view. Understanding and dialogue are neither a sin nor something evil.
    Religion isn't a defense. It doesn't make them "not bigots". It just explains how they defend their bigotries to themselves and their fellows.


  15. #175
    Short, shrivelled and always to the left.

    On a serious note; left. Like, actual left. Not American "left."

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    You think?

    Is the Democratic Party in the USA left or right?
    Its specific to the country, but its not nebulous.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  17. #177
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    I don't lean, I have excellent posture
    Proof is boring. Proof is tiresome. Proof is irrelevance. People would rather be handed an easy lie than search for a difficult truth, especially when it suits their own purpose.
    - Glokta
    The Last Argument of Kings, The First Law Trilogy.

  18. #178
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    The discussion is always about when a fetus could be considered a child or not. That isn't something that science can determine and claim the sole authority over. Science is only one opinion, philosophy has many more which are just as valid.
    When it comes to the law this statement is entirely incorrect. You can have all the philosophical debates about when life starts as you want but when it comes to making law it's up to science, otherwise it's a blatant violation of church and state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    They caused the situation themselves.
    Your misogyny is showing.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  19. #179
    I'm an issues guy, too. I tend to straddle the middle, but I suppose I skew left given how extreme the right wing has been skewed by Trump and those who would emulate him. A couple decades ago, I would have skewed right.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Religion is actually most often something communal. The religions that manage to survive the centuries at least tend to be communal in nature. In contrast with how atomized and lonely society is becoming, as it claims that everything is just a personal choice or experience. Humans are social creatures, they might have a need for communal religions and certain decisions being made by their community instead of being left free. Being 'set free' used to be a punishment.
    Your religion is not welcome in the government in the state of Florida.

    Religion is about power, money, and control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

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