MMO Champion! Do you lean left or right?

[molliewoof]

That still does not change the point.

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Keir is just as hated among voters as Corbyn was(most of which was just flat-out sabotage by the right-wing of labour).

Imagine joining a left-wing party just so you can destroy the reputation of any of its left-wing leaders and help the tories win.

Bah you got there first

[Fugus]

I voted left, but sadly on stuff like this, you should clarify actual left or American left.

Because the American left is still firmly right wing.

[Endus]

One is if you in anyway like something from either side, you then fully support everything under that banner.
Like it's Sith politics.
Black or white.
The other not so much and there's middle ground.

I feel like this is when Endus disapproves of my reading HP cause of JKR.
Or if someone buys from apple then therefore they automatically condone slave labor etc.

Not saying either is right.
Just seems to be how people are split.

I mean, enjoy HP as much as you like. Rowling's an outspoken, vicious bigot, though, and that comes through in her work. Not just the anti-lgbt stuff, either.

Lovecraft's work is fascinating, but same thing: the man was violently racist, and you have to read his work with that in mind.

Edit: I'm very much not into "sides"; I don't shit on Rowling because she's on some other "team"; I shit on her as an individual, for her campaign of harassment and abuse she's used her platform to perpetuate. It doesn't mean anything about anyone else.

[DarkAmbient]

Keir is just as hated among voters as Corbyn was(most of which was just flat-out sabotage by the right-wing of labour).

Imagine joining a left-wing party just so you can destroy the reputation of any of its left-wing leaders and help the tories win.

Corbyn would have won the first election if the Blair mandleson new labour faux tory scum wouldnt have had two votes of no confidence against him. After that he got brow beaten, watch his first speech in parliament compared to his last, completely beaten.

I've said this before here, labour needs to split in two, real labour and new labour with some sort of nod and wink that they would combine together when needed, like the power rangers. They are currently just sabotaging themselves.

I see the old "Corbyn would've won if it wasn't for those pesky right-wingers" narrative is still going strong. Kinnock was fighting with the party's left wing nearly 40 years ago and he almost managed to drag Labour back to victory after Foot's disastrous leadership. Blair finished the job he started and gave Labour the only election wins they've had since the early 70s. It's no coincidence that Labour's worst defeats were at the hands of its most left wing leaders.

The notion that there is a 'true' left wing Labour being held back from office by right wingers just doesn't hold up to scrutiny and isn't borne out by the history of our politics since the war. It's pure copium being huffed by Corbynites and old-school socialists who can't accept that the public want something different. It must piss them off no end that Tony Blair did more for the working class than any Labour leader since Attlee.

[tehdang]

Its not hard for me in America.

I don't lean left, I'm fully 100% left.

There's no blending of ideologies anymore in the US.

Either you're racist, xenophobic, homophobic, sexist and think solely in terms of how X affects me and only me or you're left.

Nah, right-wing shit is either just racist shit or shitting on the poor shit.

Decent showing out of the "everybody that isn't US-left has something wrong with them" crowd.

Love it.

[JohnBrown1917]

Decent showing out of the "everybody that isn't US-left has something wrong with them" crowd.

Love it.

Why even bring up the US left? This shit is universal.

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I see the old "Corbyn would've won if it wasn't for those pesky right-wingers" narrative is still going strong.

Nah, its very clear how horrible a large part of the British voting base is.

But to deny the liberal/right-wing sabotage is just blind.

Blair finished the job he started and gave Labour the only election wins they've had since the early 70s. It's no coincidence that Labour's worst defeats were at the hands of its most left wing leaders.

Ah, yes, the biggest war criminal that ever led labour, must be really proud of that one

The notion that there is a 'true' left wing Labour being held back from office by right wingers just doesn't hold up to scrutiny and isn't borne out by the history of our politics since the war. It's pure copium being huffed by Corbynites and old-school socialists who can't accept that the public want something different.

How hard is to keep denying the reality of all the fake lies of anti-semitism that tanked any chance he had because the media went along with it?

But its indeed obvious conservatism is far more popular in the UK, no idea why that means having 2 conservative parties is a good thing, but hey, more power to you folk.

It must piss them off no end that Tony Blair did more for the working class than any Labour leader since Attlee.

Blair? What fantasy land are you even from?

UK labour is free to move as far to the right as they need to, but that does not mean I can't shit on them for it.

[tehdang]

Why even bring up the US left? This shit is universal.

The international audience has very different relative lefts and rights than the US.

Which is more of a general observation to the thread, not specific to your own "Are you left, or are you either racist or like shitting on the poor?" interpretation of politics.

[Hollycakes]

I understand @Endus.
I guess for me I can still listen to Thriller without thinking about MJ in bed with kids.
Or read HP and none of that comes to mind when I'm thinking about quidditch etc.
I still enjoy Disney.
I guess I can separate the art from the artist in that sense.
Her mudblood stuff etc. I may view more as just a reflection on society in general when I'm reading as opposed to her viewpoints specifically.
I still watch Tom Cruise films as well and I'm originally from near Clearwater and am sadly well versed in Scientology and its shortcomings.
My brain just doesn't work like that.

This feels similar in the sense that I don't think you have to subscribe to the extremist view points of a party to agree with some of it.
It's not all or none.
Because my uncle likes certain republican ideals, doesn't mean he is all of those other things I'm seeing mentioned.
Not all people view parties as I'm seeing described.
He doesn't care about race.
He's not all for himself or whatever.
He certainly doesn't agree with the abortion ban.
He thinks Trump is an idiot.
He also hates Obama because he killed some job that he had.
But he is vaxxed.
He doesn't watch the news or anything either, only golf.
There are TONS of people like him.
Still thinking it's a party of something it no longer is;
Or it is to them, but that crowd as we've seen is being pushed out and those republicans have no home now.
And no name.
They aren't automatically Dems now.
Same for Dems.
No doubt some Dems have been pushed out for whatever reasons.
I get the stereotype that's getting painted but it doesn't fit everyone.
So I think for them to say that it's all under one banner and if you like one thing from it, you support the rest, isn't genuine.

[JohnBrown1917]

The international audience has very different relative lefts and rights than the US.

Which is more of a general observation to the thread, not specific to your own "Are you left, or are you either racist or like shitting on the poor?" interpretation of politics.

Yeah, and i'm speaking from an international perspective. Where Economic or racist/sexist policies stand on the scale hardly change just because you cross a border.


But not to worry, I can see the difference between the centre-right and the far right(i.e the GOP in the US)

[Bodakane]

Decent showing out of the "everybody that isn't US-left has something wrong with them" crowd.

Love it.

Wah.

You're not being persecuted, so get the fuck off your cross made of victim cards.

The right in the US has become all those things. If you don't like it and are still right, look inward and stop blaming the people calling a fact a fact.

[JohnBrown1917]

Left-wing in the US is considered to be 'right-wing' in many European places for example. It is anything, but universal.
.

I don't care, its beside the point.

[Bodakane]

Left-wing in the US is considered to be 'right-wing' in many European places for example. It is anything, but universal.

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I love how they are all going, "stop attacking me for my opinions!" over this (as if being racist, sexist, and scared of literally everything are valid opinions lol), yet at the same time attack anything that isn't right-wing with a vengeance.

Calling someone a hypocrite or calling them a republican. is saying the same thing.

There's not a single platform plank, ideology or talking point that isn't a direct contradiction to something they pretend to be outraged about when it suits them.

That's because they all know they're hypocrites, and they don't care. To them there is just "Me winning, You losing". There is nothing else. If Biden came out tomorrow in favor of 0 gun restrictions, 0 abortions, 0 wealth taxes, they'd be against that all later in the day.

[Levelfive]

Calling someone a hypocrite or calling them a republican. is saying the same thing.

There's not a single platform plank, ideology or talking point that isn't a direct contradiction to something they pretend to be outraged about when it suits them.

That's because they all know they're hypocrites, and they don't care. To them there is just "Me winning, You losing". There is nothing else. If Biden came out tomorrow in favor of 0 gun restrictions, 0 abortions, 0 wealth taxes, they'd be against that all later in the day.

There's not even a Republican platform anymore where they pretend to have values and policy positions.

[Lenonis]

Decent showing out of the "everybody that isn't US-left has something wrong with them" crowd.

Don't get all pissy because people are pointing out the quacking.

[Endus]

I understand @Endus.
I guess for me I can still listen to Thriller without thinking about MJ in bed with kids.
Or read HP and none of that comes to mind when I'm thinking about quidditch etc.
I still enjoy Disney.
I guess I can separate the art from the artist in that sense.
Her mudblood stuff etc. I may view more as just a reflection on society in general when I'm reading as opposed to her viewpoints specifically.

It isn't the mudblood stuff, which is just in-universe racism.

It's the use of classic anti-semitic tropes in describing her "goblin" bankers.
It's the lack of any meaningful characters of color (no, Cho Chang doesn't count, especially since she's pretty stereotypical and not represented well).
It's the weird-ass pro-slavery shit, with creatures that WANT to be slaves, and no, Hermione and S.P.E.W. isn't a counterpoint, since it's mostly played as a joke.
It's the use of other cultures as monocultural stereotypes if they're even considered at all.

There's . . . a lot. Stuff that you kinda glossed over as you read it, maybe, but once you notice the hand of the author in this stuff, it's pretty unpleasant.

You can like it despite this; I brought up Lovecraft because I'm a fan of the mythos, but I'll be the first to point out that Lovecraft was racist as fuuuuck and there's a lot of racist shit in his writings that you have to get past. What I don't do is play defense for those parts, or the author. "Lovecraft was a steaming bigot" is just a fact. Same with Rowling. There's problematic shit in their writings, in both cases. Doesn't mean you can't like it despite that, but pretending it's not there is no bueno.

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Decent showing out of the "everybody that isn't US-left has something wrong with them" crowd.

Love it.

I mean, you're free to explain why your views aren't predicated on the willful, deliberate creation and/or exploitation of human suffering.

Whining when people point it out is just a persecution complex. If they're wrong, debunk them. If they aren't, stop complaining that they're being right about things in public.

[tehdang]

Don't get all pissy because people are pointing out the quacking.

It’s observational. You think they were kidding or something? Lol

[Othraerir]

depends where the pole is

[Calfredd]

Well, it is ever the longterm strategy of the left to slowly start demonizing everything that doesn't fit their own view.

History says you are lying through your teeth.

[DarkAmbient]

Nah, its very clear how horrible a large part of the British voting base is.

But to deny the liberal/right-wing sabotage is just blind.

Ah, yes, the biggest war criminal that ever led labour, must be really proud of that one

How hard is to keep denying the reality of all the fake lies of anti-semitism that tanked any chance he had because the media went along with it?

But its indeed obvious conservatism is far more popular in the UK, no idea why that means having 2 conservative parties is a good thing, but hey, more power to you folk.

Blair? What fantasy land are you even from?

UK labour is free to move as far to the right as they need to, but that does not mean I can't shit on them for it.

You are just regurgitating tropes. Corbyn lost because of a number of reasons: ambiguity over Brexit, a bad manifesto, and Corbyn himself among other things. And to question the good Blair did for this country just shows you either don't know what you're talking about or you're being dishonest.

[molliewoof]

I see the old "Corbyn would've won if it wasn't for those pesky right-wingers" narrative is still going strong. Kinnock was fighting with the party's left wing nearly 40 years ago and he almost managed to drag Labour back to victory after Foot's disastrous leadership. Blair finished the job he started and gave Labour the only election wins they've had since the early 70s. It's no coincidence that Labour's worst defeats were at the hands of its most left wing leaders.

The notion that there is a 'true' left wing Labour being held back from office by right wingers just doesn't hold up to scrutiny and isn't borne out by the history of our politics since the war. It's pure copium being huffed by Corbynites and old-school socialists who can't accept that the public want something different. It must piss them off no end that Tony Blair did more for the working class than any Labour leader since Attlee.

Can't remember exactly what I said, I tried to stay up for fury and started boozing early but it didn't work, but the two points were - Corbyn would have won without two votes of no confidence - that is true, I was watching that ( I enjoy election night, sad I know) and until the very end it was up for grabs 2nd was labour needs to split because they are sabotaging each other, still true, starmees lot were all getting shouted down at the conference.

Tony Blair was war mongering scum that to this day doesn't see the irony of him being middle East peace envoy.

I'm not labour by the way and don't know their history so can't argue there, I also don't know what copium is