Poll: Should Blizzard release WoW sub numbers?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire RefinedMadness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Windswept Depths of Pandemonium
    Posts
    361
    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    If you feel like there isn't enough of a community to play the game then quit. Are you able to log in and find a raid group? If so, what's the problem? Or if you pvp, can you find others to pvp with? If so, then what's the problem?

    "I can list many reasons" *proceeds to ramble without listing any reasons*

    Nice.
    People who complain will always find reasons to complain and people who counter-complain will always have the same packaged retorts.

    So why shouldn't Blizzard be transparent about their numbers anyway? At least there would be a measure of objectivity to any argument about the health of the game if any side of the argument can have numbers to back it up. Their only argument is the "cyclical nature" of subscriptions. Well the thing about cyclical is ups after the downs and upward and downward trends can be easily inferred along with events that triggered them.



  2. #22
    Yes absolutely they should

    So that way we can differentiate the subs from the whales propping up the revenue dollars and puts more pressure on them to deliver a better game for their consumers.

    We all know that the reason they stopped reporting was because it was bad press and they could mask it with MAUs and a flat revenue number.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RefinedMadness View Post
    Well I would like to actually see numbers to back claims of positive or negative impacts of design choices to the game. Instead of seeing BS speculations of "WoW is Dead" and "All is fine". Also makes Blizzard more accountable in front of it's stakeholders.
    Positive and negative impacts of design choices aren't measured in subscriber numbers, they are measured by the number of times players actually partake in the activity. How often, duration, etc.
    Having 2 million players quit the game after PvP changes means nothing if those players didn't PvP in the first place.

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire RefinedMadness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Windswept Depths of Pandemonium
    Posts
    361
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    Positive and negative impacts of design choices aren't measured in subscriber numbers, they are measured by the number of times players actually partake in the activity. How often, duration, etc.
    Having 2 million players quit the game after PvP changes means nothing if those players didn't PvP in the first place.
    Well how about those numbers as well? End game participation broken down to each category would give even more transparency. Heck even a quarterly breakdown would suffice to smooth out the changes and give room for things to brew for a bit before giving a verdict.

    As many posters noted, if someone doesn't want to play they can go ahead and if they do they can go ahead. Sub numbers can't possibly be that relevant to people's choices. Right?



  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RefinedMadness View Post
    Well how about those numbers as well? End game participation broken down to each category would give even more transparency. Heck even a quarterly breakdown would suffice to smooth out the changes and give room for things to brew for a bit before giving a verdict.

    As many posters noted, if someone doesn't want to play they can go ahead and if they do they can go ahead. Sub numbers can't possibly be that relevant to people's choices. Right?
    Care to elaborate why you only want subscriber numbers (which are meaningless) instead of attrition and new player generation numbers?
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  6. #26
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    7,518
    Quote Originally Posted by RefinedMadness View Post
    Stakeholders are not only the investors, it also includes the player-base and employees.
    You're not a stakeholder just because you play the game.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RefinedMadness View Post
    People who complain will always find reasons to complain and people who counter-complain will always have the same packaged retorts.

    So why shouldn't Blizzard be transparent about their numbers anyway? At least there would be a measure of objectivity to any argument about the health of the game if any side of the argument can have numbers to back it up. Their only argument is the "cyclical nature" of subscriptions. Well the thing about cyclical is ups after the downs and upward and downward trends can be easily inferred along with events that triggered them.
    Can you point to even one historical even that was proved with sub numbers? Really the only thing that has been observed is a cyclical nature of both patches and expansions, a variance to which people like yourself pour all their precious bullshit into. Besides that, maybe hitting the roof with subs implies doing things you would rather Blizzard did not do. Take for example the long downward trend in subs. How is Blizzard going to fix that? Engage a new, younger, fortnite dazzled generation? I'll pass.

    You know that old saying, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

    "sub numbers went down because blizzard did this thing I did not like"

    Truth is you have no clue even with the sub numbers. You are just curious and want to be indulged so you can start a real "productive" conversation, like this one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    Positive and negative impacts of design choices aren't measured in subscriber numbers, they are measured by the number of times players actually partake in the activity. How often, duration, etc.
    Having 2 million players quit the game after PvP changes means nothing if those players didn't PvP in the first place.
    Even player engagement can have pitfalls. For example the super accessible but impossibly, actually indeterminately long loot treadmill of BFA titan forging. Another example is LFR in MoP. LFR is a great success they say. LFR was the only real character progression I say, and judging by the tone of LFR over many many years it is something people largely put up with not enjoy because it is rewarding.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    You're not a stakeholder just because you play the game.
    This actually falls precisely within the definition.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire RefinedMadness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Windswept Depths of Pandemonium
    Posts
    361
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Care to elaborate why you only want subscriber numbers (which are meaningless) instead of attrition and new player generation numbers?
    It's an easy figure to share without need to go into details? Regional and demographic metadata would paint a better picture of how things are going. Any other details would be welcome of course as it would give a better focus to what the subscriber trends mean.

    It's not like I am asking for real-time numbers broken down to the finest detail. I'm just saying a monthly or quarterly figure would go a long way towards establishing transparency and respect with the stakeholders. Too much detail would put too much pressure on the developers, sub numbers are the bare minimum of detail.



  9. #29
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    31,180
    Quote Originally Posted by RefinedMadness View Post
    ...sub numbers are the bare minimum of detail.
    Sub numbers might be your bare minimum but it's not a bare minimum for anyone else. No in WoW's market space is reporting active subs. No one.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    You're not a stakeholder just because you play the game.
    lol. Yes, you are by definition a stakeholder because you play the game

  11. #31
    You need subscriber numbers to make an "informed decision" about playing or not?

    You either enjoy the game, or you don't, regardless of 1 or 10 million active players.

    This doesn't come across as anything more than wanting validation for bashing the game, or praising it, for nothing else than 'numbers', which in itself, is irrelevant.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    lol. Yes, you are by definition a stakeholder because you play the game
    Stakeholder means you own something at the company

    By all accounts you don't even OWN the game...you just pay for the privilege of playing it

  13. #33
    They aren't going to do that cause it's not in their favor.
    A 13m sub mmo having dropped to 1-2m subs is not exactly a favorable sight for them.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by RefinedMadness View Post
    It's an easy figure to share without need to go into details? Regional and demographic metadata would paint a better picture of how things are going. Any other details would be welcome of course as it would give a better focus to what the subscriber trends mean.

    It's not like I am asking for real-time numbers broken down to the finest detail. I'm just saying a monthly or quarterly figure would go a long way towards establishing transparency and respect with the stakeholders. Too much detail would put too much pressure on the developers, sub numbers are the bare minimum of detail.
    So you acknowledge they're meaningless yet want them anyway?
    New BiS for 9.1!

    [ twitch ][ Retired Semi-retired as of 2018 ] [ The Official MMO-Champion Bingo Card. ] [ WoW's Community in 2021, illustrated ]
    [ That time I predicted the future...twice. ] [ How do you know if somebody posting on a WoW forum is a FFXIV player? Don't worry, they'll tell you. ]

  15. #35
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    31,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Stakeholder means you own something at the company

    By all accounts you don't even OWN the game...you just pay for the privilege of playing it
    Technically customers can be stakeholders since it's loosely defined as anyone with an interest in a product or service. That said, there are different sorts of stakeholders and typically customers have no say in how the company is run. They can either buy the product or not and that's the extent of it. The notion that because you subscribe to the game you should have access to proprietary information is just stupid on its face. That's not how it works.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    lol. Yes, you are by definition a stakeholder because you play the game
    It's really semantics.

    The correct phrasing would be that you're not an investor just because you're a stakeholder. But we're talking about the investors anyway really in the end only, so in the context you should kinda figure by saying stakeholder we'd be referring to the investors.


    Either way, needing to know sub numbers to determine if you're going to play the game or not is kinda a petty level of decision.
    Either you enjoy it or not.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    They aren't going to do that cause it's not in their favor.
    A 13m sub mmo having dropped to 1-2m subs is not exactly a favorable sight for them.
    After WoD, that's likely the reason they stopped announcing sub numbers, as it allows Blizz to control the narrative. Someone mentioned along the lines that Blizz is rather forthright in their presentation of MAUs for investor calls and the like, but I'd honestly say it's classic case of making numbers say whatever the hell you want them to say. While everything that is said is teeeechnically true, it's not necessarily an accurate picture. ActiBlizz is always going to try to paint a positive picture, and you can massage data in any way to make a positive statement about even a terrible situation.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Care to elaborate why you only want subscriber numbers (which are meaningless) instead of attrition and new player generation numbers?
    Would you actually support his thread if they posted something saying they wanted those numbers instead?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Sub numbers might be your bare minimum but it's not a bare minimum for anyone else. No in WoW's market space is reporting active subs. No one.
    Well Blizzard certainly used to release those numbers, and that fact is drastically more relevant than what you keep saying. Like even if Final Fantasy did, I doubt you would change your tune on sub numbers. Would you really suddenly agree? No? Then why say this at all? Its not relevant.

  19. #39
    The numbers will either be higher than you expect, at which time you will accuse them of propping up the numbers with some kind of promotion or trickery, or they will be lower than you expect, at which time you will come back here shouting "WoW is dead! WoW is dead!"

    Nobody cares about either.
    How joyous to be in such a place! Where phishing is not only allowed, it is encouraged!

  20. #40
    Why does this thread exist?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •