I think WoW would benefit from having less difficulty modes and less ilv.

[Sin of Pride]

Gear turnover is good, actually. ESO and other games are insanely boring because of the flat curve. Some people like it, but that is a different audience than WOW.

WoW has literally always been like this. To quote GC, it is a game about upgrading your stuff.

I think it has just gotten out of hand a bit. I am not saying things need to be static but having more streamlined progression path feels like it would do good.

[Ealyssa]

Just let normal mode for leveling
Remove heroic and M0
M+ being an infinite scaling difficulty should be the only endgame dungeon. M+1 should be the default dungeon starting at max level. Blizzard may balance it to be slightly easier than current M0 with a curve where : M+5 new system = M+5 current system.

[arkanon]

Merge heroic and normal - first bosses around mid-tier normal bosses, scaling up to the final boss being heroic.

Remove M+0, make all dungeons scale to heroic for max level players.

Not perfect, but i think it would help a lot.

[exsanguinate]

Lfr normal mythic done

[Mr Crix]

You are not answering and you are not even replying about your statement. Are you this this? Put like 2 seconds into thinking about anything you say ffs.

I don't really get how I could be more clear for you... what part did you not understand?

[Kuntantee]

They do a lower level of difficulty? I don't want to be rude but did you read anything in the thread to figure out what it was about or did you skip to the last post without knowing anything just to chime in that you thought that single post of any and all context was dumb?

Of course I read it. I agree with the general premise that there are so many difficulties. I just do not agree with M+ portion. As I understand it, you are suggesting to remove in-between difficulties and suggesting to create leaps between difficulties, correct? So instead of going from 0 to 10 or 15 with one step at a time (0, 1, 2, ..., 8, 9, 10, ... 15, ..), players now leap. So the difficulty curve is steeper.

[Sin of Pride]

Of course I read it. I agree with the general premise that there are so many difficulties. I just do not agree with M+ portion. As I understand it, you are suggesting to remove in-between difficulties and suggesting to create leaps between difficulties, correct? So instead of going from 0 to 10 or 15 with one step at a time (0, 1, 2, ..., 8, 9, 10, ... 15, ..), players now leap. So the difficulty curve is steeper.

Yes I feel that the difference between 1-4 from 0-5 isn't really that steep nor is 6-9 compared to 10. Now I can see the last step as being a larger jump then the rest as that is when you really get into the area where those flat % stat buffs are felt but overall I see it as far superior then to what we have now and traditionally the hardest mode in wow has always had a steeper ramp up then the other modes.

[relaxok]

uhh what aotc guild is doing normal?

[Biomega]

For dungeons, I totally agree. I think the regular normal/heroic/mythic dungeon difficulties have outlived their usefulness, and should just be folded into the M+ system in some way. Adjust the way keystones work of course (maybe only required for 10+ or something), and make it easier to select the difficulty (e.g. a dropdown menu much like it works in D3's Greater Rift system).

For raids, I don't think we need to change much. Seems to be good differentiation going on right now, to cater to a variety of player skill levels and preferences. I'd personally replace LFR with a story mode you can queue for solo, to fight with an NPC party just so you can see what happens in the raid, not for loot. But I get there's some people who like LFR and there's very little cost to keeping it around.

[Quaght]

IF you could remove or change something: Make LFR into storymode. Single queue. Next to no mechanics with NPCs. People can play it. Get a transmog. On whole jump of ilvl removed. If you want gear go into group content.

I would LOVE this. The only reason I even enter a raid is for the story. If Bizzard introduced that, I'd be in a very happy place.

[psyquest]

most popular times in wow, there were 2 raids difficulty (normal/heroic) and 2 raids sizes (10/20) both sizes offered same ilvl gear.

Be it in MOP of Woltk never seen issues with raiding and having alt. May be someone that played at the time has different views. But I fondly remember both as great for raiding.

[VinceVega]

most popular times in wow, there were 2 raids difficulty (normal/heroic) and 2 raids sizes (10/20) both sizes offered same ilvl gear.

Be it in MOP of Woltk never seen issues with raiding and having alt. May be someone that played at the time has different views. But I fondly remember both as great for raiding.

in WOTLK 25 man gave a siginficant higher iLvl than 10 mans. 13 more.

https://worldofwarcraft.fandom.com/et/wiki/Item_level

[RoKPaNda]

Be careful what you're asking for. :P If they were going to prune any one raid difficulty it would probably be Mythic as we're by far the smallest section of the playerbase.

[Deneios]

Gear turnover is good, actually. ESO and other games are insanely boring because of the flat curve. Some people like it, but that is a different audience than WOW.

WoW has literally always been like this. To quote GC, it is a game about upgrading your stuff.

That would be a thing if the gear had any unique attributes. Current gear is a stat stick when compared to older expansions and tier sets. Only thing that offer meaningfull change are the trinkets and most of them are either on use mainstat or proc secondary stats for dps. Tank and healing ones have some flavor left but not much

[Mr Crix]

Be careful what you're asking for. :P If they were going to prune any one raid difficulty it would probably be Mythic as we're by far the smallest section of the playerbase.

I can't ever see this being a thing. Mythic is what drives wow and before that heroic. Even the playerbase accepts that without a mythic guild their server is dead.

Mythic is also the only content wow really does better then anyone else. When it falls the house of cards goes with it.

[RoKPaNda]

I can't ever see this being a thing. Mythic is what drives wow and before that heroic. Even the playerbase accepts that without a mythic guild their server is dead.

Mythic is also the only content wow really does better then anyone else. When it falls the house of cards goes with it.

We really do have an inflated sense of importance don't we? Only 5% of the playerbase (on average) manages to down a single Mythic boss in any given tier. Everyone else outnumbers us massively and they're the players that keep the lights on. Blizzard has lost double, triple, and even 5x the number of subs as there are Mythic raiders in single quarters before. They do us a favor by giving us Mythic.

[Mr Crix]

We really do have an inflated sense of importance don't we? Only 5% of the playerbase (on average) manages to down a single Mythic boss in any given tier. Everyone else outnumbers us massively and they're the players that keep the lights on. Blizzard has lost double, triple, and even 5x the number of subs as there are Mythic raiders in single quarters before. They do us a favor by giving us Mythic.

Only a small percentage of moba players play in high tiers. They are still the tiers the entire game is designed around. You know very little about human behavior to believe what you do.

[RoKPaNda]

Only a small percentage of moba players play in high tiers. They are still the tiers the entire game is designed around. You know very little about human behavior to believe what you do.

So first of all being insulting because someone has insight that you don't is poor form. Secondly you're a little confused there because that's apples and oranges, but you're also wrong because changes are made based on lower brackets in competitive games. If there's something that's meta at the high end that people on the low end can't deal with it usually gets nerfed. Blizzard has done this, riot has done this, valve has done this, DICE has done this, and all of the companies that make COD have done this. In fact Blizzard nerfed the shit out of an entire unit in StarCraft 2 specifically because people in bronze couldn't deal with pressure, but in Grand Master league that particular pressure had a pretty low success rate.

WoW isn't designed around Mythic raiding. Mythic raiding is Blizzard's love letter to those of us that are hardcore enough to do it. Much like how we don't pay much attention to the casuals, the casuals couldn't give less of a fuck about us. If Blizzard removed Mythic raiding tomorrow the other 95% of the player base wouldn't even notice. Unless their philosophy changed recently, Mythic isn't even the first raid difficulty designed. They design normal or Heroic and then scale up / add abilities / make some mechanics more lethal IIRC.

So if any difficulty of raid is ever going to be on the chopping block it's not going to be one where people in the double digits participate in. So you might think I know very little about human behavior but at least I don't think I'm amazingly special or particularly important to Blizzard just because I'm in a small social club that does their hardest content.

[Mr Crix]

So first of all being insulting because someone has insight that you don't is poor form. Secondly you're a little confused there because that's apples and oranges, but you're also wrong because changes are made based on lower brackets in competitive games. If there's something that's meta at the high end that people on the low end can't deal with it usually gets nerfed. Blizzard has done this, riot has done this, valve has done this, DICE has done this, and all of the companies that make COD have done this. In fact Blizzard nerfed the shit out of an entire unit in StarCraft 2 specifically because people in bronze couldn't deal with pressure, but in Grand Master league that particular pressure had a pretty low success rate.

WoW isn't designed around Mythic raiding. Mythic raiding is Blizzard's love letter to those of us that are hardcore enough to do it. Much like how we don't pay much attention to the casuals, the casuals couldn't give less of a fuck about us. If Blizzard removed Mythic raiding tomorrow the other 95% of the player base wouldn't even notice. Unless their philosophy changed recently, Mythic isn't even the first raid difficulty designed. They design normal or Heroic and then scale up / add abilities / make some mechanics more lethal IIRC.

So if any difficulty of raid is ever going to be on the chopping block it's not going to be one where people in the double digits participate in. So you might think I know very little about human behavior but at least I don't think I'm amazingly special or particularly important to Blizzard just because I'm in a small social club that does their hardest content.

Sadly your just wrong. You can look at the health if each server itself. With raiding a servers dead. Now I don't de ide that, blizzard doesn't decide. Only the playerbase does.

You flawed broken and borderline insane logic simply crumbles apart upon any prodding. You make a desperate last ditch plea to popularity without even thinking through that low hanging fruit of an argument.

If we are arguing what is the most popular content in wows history it has and likely always will be the first 10 levels. Shouldn't the game be designed around that?

I do implore you to ponder and test your arguments before presenting them to others.

[Twelveplay]

I feel like the only dificulty that doesn't make sense to me really is Heroic.
IMO i'd make LFR the normal dificulty and just make it a bit harder than it actually is, Normal would turn into heroic and Mythic for top end raiders.
So make it 3 dificulties only tbh.
Also make it so u can only run one dificulty again per week so u don't have to spend so much time running it 50 times for mythic raiders i dunno.
Thoughts?