on another note I hope they don't retcon it into "Detheroc has already mind controlled Garithos when he had the Blood Elves executed" and just leave it as a sober Garithos being racist
The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!
I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.
You mean between the reinforcements all Alliance member states sent him serving under his command, the Chronicle v3 stating he commanded the main Alliance force in the fight against the Scourge and even the (remaining) leadership of an Alliance state abiding by his orders (no matter how garbage and counter-intuitive to the benefits of the Alliance they were) as evidenced by Dalaran?
So in your logic...you can't do morally subjective things while having an opinion on how other people handle things?? Is that the gist of this post? Hmmm okay
I know a butcher who has pet horses and rabbits, touching those would make it more likely for you to end on the chopping block than they would. Yet he still sells both horse and rabbit meat.
As difficult as it is for some to grasp: People can dissociate their feelings from their actions, it is no different than playing the devil's advocate, or from considering an idea without accepting or believing it.
This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.
Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.
The Alliance send rienforcements to Garithos because he was the leader of the most powerful force present that had even a marginal succes against the Scourge at that point. Ofcourse survivors of the Scourge would flock to his cause for either survival or revenge. Let's not pretend it was only the Alliance that flocked to Garithos, the neutral blood elves of Quel'thalas send an army to assist Garithos too after all.
Even after they realised what a racist piece of work he was, they kept aiding him until he tried to execute them, same can be send from the rienforcements send from Ironforge (and did Magni at the time even know of Garithos' racism?)
Also, Dalaran can hardly be blamed, that'd be like me putting a gun to your head, forcing you to do what I want, and then a victim blaming you afterwards and not me.
Garithos is the de facto leader of the Alliance in Lordaeron, just as Jaina was in Kalimdor. There was no centralized Alliance command at that point: most of Eastern Kingdoms served Garithos, with Azeroth/Stormwind mostly absent and kingdoms like Gilneas mostly withdrawn; the Kalimdor survivors served under Jaina's command; the Alliance navy and Kul'tirans continued to serve Daelin. Garithos was put in charge of Quel'thelas, Dalaran, and Khaz Modan forces in addition to Lordaeron. Dalaran followed his orders and were willing to execute former members of the Kirin Tor for him. But yes, if you need a source, Chronicle Vol 3, p. 90 cites Garithos as the leader of the Alliance's Lordaeron forces.
As for this "putting a gun to [Dalaran's] head," what's your source on that? I've seen no reference of Dalaran acting under duress. The most apologetic line offered was from Jailor Kassan saying it was a shame to see a good wizard (Kael'thas) go bad. No one even suggests they don't want to execute the elves.
It would be much more interesting if the SI 7 was like the Dai Li of Avatar (the secret police of Ba Sing Se).
...that's just my opinion, anyway.
All of this cosmological stuff is too boring for me. I'd like to get Warcraft back, please. my thing is killing defias and orcs.
Except, again, they weren't simply aiding him. They sent troops to serve under his command. If they didn't consider him to be the commander in charge they could have simply have their troops work alongside him. And not only were the Blood Elves the only non-Alliance members, they were a former member with the prospects of rejoining (kinda the point of Shaw's commentary that's the topic of this thread). So I'm not sure what mentioning them is supposed to prove.
As for Dalaran, like @Aresk said, I have no clue where you're getting the idea that they were the victims of anything in regards to Garithos. Rommath outright said that the Kirin Tor simply turned a blind eye and neither Garithos nor Kirin Tor members made any remarks indicating what you're claiming.
And no, the Dwarves did not know of his racism. Though, again, I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove.
I'm not sure if calling Jaina an Alliance leader at that point in time is really accurate. She was nowhere in the chain of command, her exodus wasn't authorized by anyone other than Medivh and was essentially a doomsday cult that just happened to be right thanks to Medivh's foresight and Theramore hasn't even joined the Alliance at the time because the Alliance simply didn't know of it yet.
That's probably why he absolutely sucks at his job, he was replaced by a dreadlord and tried to stop the uncrowned from saving SW. I don't think Shaw has ever accomplished anything of not and SI:7 only exists to get tricked and lead the alliance into traps.
Blizzard expanded on Jaina's exodus in Rise of the Lich King, allegedly, with Antonidas instructing Jaina to go not long before Arthas laid siege to Dalaran. I haven't read the book myself, but Chronicle Volume 3 corroborates it. She apparently stayed in Eastern Kingdom for several months after Medivh's warning, as Arthas razed Quel'thelas, only leaving after Antonidas urged her to. As for the chain of command, she was a Kirin Tor agent throughout the main campaign; I have no clue where that would place her, but she was put in charge of that expedition by Antonidas and rallied the forces she took with her, making her the leader for Lordaeron survivors, some Gilnean forces, dwarves, gnomes, and high elves (again, according to Chronicle Vol 3, though the Gilnean reference is from the WC3 orc campaign).
"King Turalyon and Queen Alleria, may I ask what happened in Tyr's Hand Square in the Second War? I heard King Turalyon was involved in whatever happened there"
"SI:7! arrest this man and take him to Telogrus Rift to be re-educated!"
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+Stromic forces too
The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!
I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.
You do understand that there is a huge difference between what Garithos did and how Matthias Shaw would handle the same situation, right? Garithos was not just "rude and racist", he was a terrible leader, and an even shittier person to represent the Alliance of Lordaeron. When you are racist against factions of your own alliance, and you willingly send them on missions that cannot possibly be completed, and you just don't really care if those people die, because you view them as less than your people, that is the kind of shit that leads to coup d'etats and mutinies. Additionally, making alliances with enemies of one's enemies, and having that other enemy be what ultimately brought your kingdom down... is dumb as hell. That said, he is also the sort of leader that would have led him to be beheaded for all those things by a king, if there was one alive at the time. Uther would have put his hammer through Garithos' head if he was alive to see how the elves were treated.
The rest is correct. Matthias has been written as incompetent. I'm neither surprised by this, nor am I shocked that now the writers want him to be gay, now, too, as if he isn't bad enough now, let's just put the distraction of sexuality in there to make it even worse. But, what can I say, that's what happens when people like Madeleine Roux are permitted to write based on what they know, which honestly is bullshit. This is World of WARcraft, not World of Sexcraft.
"The fatal flaw of every plan, no matter how well planned, is the assumption that you know more than your enemy."
Yet only horde uses the “re education” through magic so far, how ironic.
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That sounds even richer coming from Shaw, who bungled up 90% of his missions.
90% because he at least has one successful infiltration so fair is fair.
Those numbers feel highly speculative lmao. The fact that he is still alive tell us more about his performance IMO.
And again, Shaw's incompetence as Stormwind's Spymaster, whatever those might be, will always fall amazingly short of Garithos shortsightedness and prejudice costing the Alliance the whole north of the EK.