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  1. #21
    No, because GDKP will still be a thing that requires reputation and communication. Also, GDKP will be higher stakes since people will have less gold and it becomes harder to get the loot to auction off without world buff cheese.

    Kill Sapphiron > get full world buffs > blow KT up, pay 198K for a Gressil? No chance now, git gud or get no loot.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    You might see it as a small thing.

    But even making a buff drop scheduled or summoning rotation is part of community interactions.


    Now in this new season server you never have a reason to talk to anyone beyond your own guild.
    I never talked to anyone about the Ony/Net buff. I just saw a ping in the morning from the 2 or 3 guilds that held the whole process hostage and would attack anyone that stepped out of line. Along with an addon with a timer. Then everyone getting pissed because it was "scuffed" because it dropped 20 seconds late as 2/3rds of the server logged on and then off seconds after it hit.

    Yeah no thanks. It was merely a reason to play less. Get pissed at players over seconds on a clock. For big guilds to dominate and manipulate smaller ones to thier will. Then for the other faction to troll and have 6 raid groups outside of BWL not for PVP but merely to strip buffs so thier parses can be higher. No thanks.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire Nak88's Avatar
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    I couldn't care less. Now we will have to see some skill instead of getting all buffs and pressing two buttons. Thank God they got rid of wbuffs, I really enjoyed Classic as a whole but the thing that I really hated was wbuffs (having to log in at certain times per day to get X buff, be super careful, the frustration after a wipe, etc).

  4. #24
    World buffs were tedious and sucked the fun out of classic.

    Perhaps with these changes we'll see some sort of difficulty returned to classic raiding. It was beyond stupid that players in greens/blues were downing Rag before sons phase in the first week the game was released.
    Last edited by Shockzalot; 2021-10-14 at 12:49 PM.

  5. #25

  6. #26
    Warchief roboscorcher's Avatar
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    I actually enjoyed the WB farming. Raiding was stressful, but it was nice to plan out the teleports. Some people worked way harder than others to make it happen, like the warlock alts.

    SoM is not for me. I play Ret and did that in classic. It sucked, and wbuff removal will make it worse. I think a lot of players feel similarly about their off-meta class, and will skip the season as well. And then all the warriors and rogues will wonder why they struggle to fill 40 slots each week.

    Hopefully the following season is "Season of Balance" so we all can play.

  7. #27
    These rules just mean that most of the ex-private server crowd is not interested. There's definitely some people that would like no world buff servers, so we're just going to wait and see how many of them are there. My assessment is that we're going to see pretty strong launch (who doesnt like launch gaming, it's the most fun) and it's going to be dead within a month, followed up with a season with no exp buffs and no world buff disabling.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    As it should be.

    Raids are just a means to an end for getting gear.
    ....no. You don't raid to get gear. You gear up so you can raid. Gear is a tool, not a reward. The only gear that is an actual reward is end-boss end-tier gear. Like Kel'Thuzad weapons. You don't NEED them, since you've already cleared the raid. But you DO need Neltharion's Tear, or Staff of the Shadow Flame, because after BWL came AQ40.

    The only reason you need gear in WoW is to tackle harder content. Always been that way, always will be that way. Except for end-bosses, as mentioned above. Only THEY drop gear which is a "reward", in the sense "You beat the game, here's the best weapons available". Like getting Ultimate Weapons in Final Fantasy, most of those are only available in post-game content, after the story has been completed.

  9. #29
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    ....no. You don't raid to get gear. You gear up so you can raid. Gear is a tool, not a reward. The only gear that is an actual reward is end-boss end-tier gear. Like Kel'Thuzad weapons. You don't NEED them, since you've already cleared the raid. But you DO need Neltharion's Tear, or Staff of the Shadow Flame, because after BWL came AQ40.

    The only reason you need gear in WoW is to tackle harder content. Always been that way, always will be that way. Except for end-bosses, as mentioned above. Only THEY drop gear which is a "reward", in the sense "You beat the game, here's the best weapons available". Like getting Ultimate Weapons in Final Fantasy, most of those are only available in post-game content, after the story has been completed.
    We just play for different reason then.

    Gear and power is the only reason to raid for me.
    Last edited by Nalam the Venom; 2021-10-15 at 06:27 AM.

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    We just play for different reason then.

    Gear and power is the only reason to raid for me.
    So...uhm. What do you do with that power? You do your dailies faster? You just sit and look at your stat screen? You use it in Arenas? If you do use it in Arenas, well...wrong kind of power. You need PVP gear for that. Resilience is a thing. I'm genuinely interested - your statement makes you look like the absolute example of a Loot-Whore.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    ....no. You don't raid to get gear. You gear up so you can raid. Gear is a tool, not a reward. The only gear that is an actual reward is end-boss end-tier gear. Like Kel'Thuzad weapons. You don't NEED them, since you've already cleared the raid. But you DO need Neltharion's Tear, or Staff of the Shadow Flame, because after BWL came AQ40.
    That's how a lot of people in the hardcore scene started to view gear on Retail, in Classic however, gear is the reward to a lot of people.

    You don't need any items from BWL in order to clear AQ40, you want it for the sake of power progression, the increase of numbers, the prestige of owning a sought after item is the reward.
    The reason why having "Full BiS" feels rewarding isn't because you need it for the next tier, but because your character has capped out its power, you're on top of the hill, so to speak.

    People also didn't need world buffs in order to clear content, but people still did it, because maximizing the power of your character is fun to a lot of people, not because it's "necessary".

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    That's how a lot of people in the hardcore scene started to view gear on Retail, in Classic however, gear is the reward to a lot of people.

    You don't need any items from BWL in order to clear AQ40, you want it for the sake of power progression, the increase of numbers, the prestige of owning a sought after item is the reward.
    The reason why having "Full BiS" feels rewarding isn't because you need it for the next tier, but because your character has capped out its power, you're on top of the hill, so to speak.

    People also didn't need world buffs in order to clear content, but people still did it, because maximizing the power of your character is fun to a lot of people, not because it's "necessary".
    Due to the scarcity of gear in Vanilla and TBC, I see your point. Here's a better example to get my point across.

    We were discussing with the guild who's gonna get Ashes of A'lar if/when it drops. Obviously everyone WANTS it, it's the fuckin Phoenix mount after all. But is there someone who actually NEEDS it?

    Answer is, yes. Our Warrior tank has been tanking for this guild since the beginning of Classic. He's the model raider - 100% raid attendance, always prepared, always plays at a high level. He is also a grade SSS Chinese farmer, even though he's Danish, he's THIS close to getting his Chinese citizenship. The man farms herbs like there's no tomorrow. If there's ONE person in the guild who would actually benefit from that increased movement speed, 310% instead of 280%, it's him. Not only does he farm herbs like a madman, he does it so he can craft Potions and other consumes for the guild at reduced AH prices. Noone asked him to do that btw.

    Ashes of A'lar IS a reward, as you say. In my eyes, the only people worthy of getting that mount are people who have been consistent in performance and attendance, because those are the 2 most important things for a raiding guild. There's like ~15 people in my guild eligible for that mount who meet that criteria.

    HOWEVER, our Warr tank not only meets that criteria, he will actually find a USE for that +30% movement speed. You will never see him AFK'ing in Shattrath. Cause he'll be too busy farming herbs :P

    Disclaimer: since the world is full of special snowflakes, let it be known that Chinese farmers are the best in the world, when it comes to farming in video-games. It's an HONOUR to be compared to a Chinese, when it comes to farming ability. Not being racist or pejorative here.

  13. #33
    World buffs are a cancer that only added annoyance save for the few idiots who can't understand statistics and just had their e-peen hard at seeing big numbers.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Answer is, yes. Our Warrior tank
    That's a nice anecdotal story, but at the end of the day, not really relevant to my point.

    The point is simple, gear isn't a means to end to beat the next content, if your ability to beat the next content in Classic is reliant on X or Y having Item Z, then you have far bigger issues.
    Gear is a reward, most people also do not lootban most hybrids on loot if they just happen to share with a pure class, despite that giving it a pure class has objectively better results for your performance.

    If you treat gear like a tool, then basically every hybrid would have to sit out on loot until the pures are full, i doubt any guild would survive long with those loot rules.

    And frankly, your story is obviously a huge fringe case, because
    (1) a Mount being faster than any other mount is in the grand scheme of things a huge exception (regular gear drops aren't)
    (2) A lot of people do not have a gathering profession on their main (because gathering profession have 0 perks)
    (3) A lot of people have dedicated gathering characters (Alts, which should never get Ashes anyway)
    (4) This guy goes above and beyond to support the raid

    If you want to give to your warrior, go ahead, but it's obvious that this is clearly a fringe case, personally, i wouldn't demand to get priority on Ashes of Al'ar on my Hunter alt because that character has Mining+Herbalism.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-10-15 at 02:08 PM.

  15. #35
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    So...uhm. What do you do with that power? You do your dailies faster? You just sit and look at your stat screen? You use it in Arenas? If you do use it in Arenas, well...wrong kind of power. You need PVP gear for that. Resilience is a thing. I'm genuinely interested - your statement makes you look like the absolute example of a Loot-Whore.
    When you get gear your numbers on the meter go up and bosses die faster.

    This feels nice.

    There is no complicated logic behind it, I just enjoy being more powerful.

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  16. #36
    Seasonal servers aren't classic wow, and this one seems to be focusing more on harder raid difficulty, and getting people to clear raids without being too geared, to test the skill base of the players etc.

    I sadly think people are treating and thinking of this more of a "Classic restart" than what it actually is. Honestly, I am half expecting people to whine when they don't release an RP server as well, and not grasp *why* there is no RP server (but that is conjecture from me).

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    That's a nice anecdotal story, but at the end of the day, not really relevant to my point.

    The point is simple, gear isn't a means to end to beat the next content, if your ability to beat the next content in Classic is reliant on X or Y having Item Z, then you have far bigger issues.
    Gear is a reward, most people also do not lootban most hybrids on loot if they just happen to share with a pure class, despite that giving it a pure class has objectively better results for your performance.

    If you treat gear like a tool, then basically every hybrid would have to sit out on loot until the pures are full, i doubt any guild would survive long with those loot rules.

    And frankly, your story is obviously a huge fringe case, because
    (1) a Mount being faster than any other mount is in the grand scheme of things a huge exception (regular gear drops aren't)
    (2) A lot of people do not have a gathering profession on their main (because gathering profession have 0 perks)
    (3) A lot of people have dedicated gathering characters (Alts, which should never get Ashes anyway)
    (4) This guy goes above and beyond to support the raid

    If you want to give to your warrior, go ahead, but it's obvious that this is clearly a fringe case, personally, i wouldn't demand to get priority on Ashes of Al'ar on my Hunter alt because that character has Mining+Herbalism.
    Truth be told, I will concede that my view on gear is the view a competitive raider has...since that's what I was for over a decade.

    Karazhan was cleared by my guild on week 2 (after lvling and Attunements) without Curator even hitting his Evocation phase. I am fully aware you don't really need gear on Classic the same way you need gear on Retail - try raiding Mythic Sanctum of Domination without a full set of Domination sockets.

    That being said, in OG TBC, gear WAS a tool. Bosses did NOT die so quickly and so easily, cause we were playing on dial-up 56k modems with a 256 MB Graphics card and a Pentium 3 processor. We were also a decade and a half younger.

  18. #38
    Good riddance to all of that.

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