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  1. #1

    Making old content relevant.

    With WoW getting ever closer to the vaunted patch 10.0 it becomes that time again to start wondering what purpose the old content serves.

    In game development it is an almost inescapable fact that you cannot make content faster than players can consume it, and while this holds true for WoW like all other conventional game it also has something most other games don't. A massive library of content spanning over a decade of near constant iteration. Zones upon zones of lovingly crafted zones filled to the brim with unique encounters, funny jokes or unique rewards. And this of course without mentioning the golden calf of WoW, instanced content. Both in the form of dungeons and raids.

    So with that in mind I have been wondering what other players would consider a good way to reuse all this content. How can for instance Mists of Pandaria be reused in such a way that the content from it would still be relevant for someone playing Shadowlands or beyond, without treating it solely as a treasure chest of transmog and mounts?

    So my challenge to everyone reading is simple:
    Come up with an addition to the game that allows old content to be relevant for the new expansion. The parameters set is that at least one zone needs to be visited for level scaled quests, as well as making at least a couple dungeons and one raid a relevant aspect of this. It can be tied to Timewalking, either as an addition or as a revamp to the entire system, or as something else.
    It also needs to be evergreen and modular to an extent where "new" content can be added whenever a new expansion launches and the previous one enters the rotation, similar to how Timewalking currently functions.



    Personally my idea would be to have a timewalking event much bigger in scope, lasting at least a few weeks and set set intervals monthly, similar to how Darkmoon Faire lasts a week starting the first weekend of the month.

    While this event is active old content will be treated as max level content. Unlike Timewalking your gear would not scale down, but instead the content would be scaled towards a reasonable level compared to whatever is current.
    Consumables or other such items from the old expansion would be valid to use in max level content, with exceptions only on particularly problematic items.
    Gear gained through during this time would similarly function like Timewalking where it scales to max level content, to prevent oversaturation of items they would be lower ilvl than comparable gear fro the sake of catchup, but with rare items available to upgrade them to be better, though not to the level of the most difficult content.

    The way it would function in practice is that each cycle a Bronze dragon (probably Chromie) would appear and ofer you a quest to return to say, Draenor. When you arrive you would find that the world currently scales, and that some features would be rolled back in some form (though of course only phased, a dragon will kindly be there to place you back in the "proper" version if you wish). For Draenor this might mean that your garrison is reverted to level 1 or 2, you are no longer able to fly and most flight points are gone. You would then get a series of quests that you can complete for Timewalking coins or similar. Quests in MoP for instance might include things like fixing up your farm, complete a series of dailies for a specific faction, complete dungeons, or even raids. The reward for completing all of these would include an item that lets you bring a piece of gear back at "full" power. Or better yet, for completing specific challenges it might unlock unique recolors of iconic class sets or mounts.



    Just my quick thoughts on such a feature of course, but I am curious to hear how others would implement old content. It really is just a giant pile of content just waiting to be utilized, and even if players have already experienced it once before that would likely be quite a few years ago, meaning a new take on it could be interesting even if someone completed all the content in Cata when it was current.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  2. #2
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So with that in mind I have been wondering what other players would consider a good way to reuse all this content. How can for instance Mists of Pandaria be reused in such a way that the content from it would still be relevant for someone playing Shadowlands or beyond, without treating it solely as a treasure chest of transmog and mounts?
    I don't think there is a good way to force people to incentivize people to go back. The people who want to do the questlines will do the questlines (well, until they can't because Blizzard removed the legendary questline for who knows what reason and never put it back in). The people who want to get the mounts will get the mounts (unless you missed the legendary questline in which case you pretty much can never get the cloaks or the Timeless Isle Cloud Serpent, which again is bullocks).

    I am curious to hear how others would implement old content
    Put all removed content back in the game. The Cata legendary daggers questline. The MoP and WoD legendary questlines. Warlock Green Fire questline. Challenge mode rewards. Mage Tower (and not on a FOMO timed event with different rewards).

  3. #3
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    They could do what GW2 does. Entire world is relevant even if early zones are easier once you're leveled and kitted out. Basically you enter a low-level zone as a higher level character you keep all of your gear and skills but your power is reduced so that it resembles what that low-level zone is roughly equal to. Again, the zone is easier because you have more abilities, etc. but none of them are like the walkover that WoW is. You can still get into trouble if you aren't paying any attention to what you're doing.

    I can remember killing rabbits in Elwynn Forest on my paladin by shouting at them from 20 yards away. Nothing like that in other games.

    EDIT:
    Of course, Blizzard devs would have to care about this. They don't because they very specifically design expansions to keep you in the new zones. As near as I can tell they don't even want people in older content.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-10-15 at 11:17 PM.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    They could do what GW2 does. Entire world is relevant even if early zones are easier once you're leveled and kitted out. Basically you enter a low-level zone as a higher level character you keep all of your gear and skills but your power is reduced so that it resembles what that low-level zone is roughly equal to. Again, the zone is easier because you have more abilities, etc. but none of them are like the walkover that WoW is. You can still get into trouble if you aren't paying any attention to what you're doing.

    I can remember killing rabbits in Elwynn Forest on my paladin by shouting at them from 20 yards away. Nothing like that in other games.

    EDIT:
    Of course, Blizzard devs would have to care about this. They don't because they very specifically design expansions to keep you in the new zones. As near as I can tell they don't even want people in older content.
    The devs not wanting people doing old content should be enough for people not wanting to sub. That content being rendered obsolete and useless is not for the devs to decide. After all we paid for it and it should remain relevant. No wonder potential new players aren’t recommended to play WoW by their WoW veteran friends.

    People praising WoW for having years worth of content are simply liars because of this.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    The devs not wanting people doing old content should be enough for people not wanting to sub. That content being rendered obsolete and useless is not for the devs to decide. After all we paid for it and it should remain relevant. No wonder potential new players aren’t recommended to play WoW by their WoW veteran friends.

    People praising WoW for having years worth of content are simply liars because of this.
    Get over yourself dude. Fuck man, they can barely balance one tier of content and you want them to reintroduce 25 more? No thanks.
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  6. #6
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    The devs not wanting people doing old content should be enough for people not wanting to sub. That content being rendered obsolete and useless is not for the devs to decide. After all we paid for it and it should remain relevant. No wonder potential new players aren’t recommended to play WoW by their WoW veteran friends.

    People praising WoW for having years worth of content are simply liars because of this.
    Yes, but you're on record that you don't want people to sub for literally dozens of reasons so how is this new and different?

    There are years of content. And people can go and play in it if they want. It's not all that interesting at this point. They don't have to follow what the devs want and in this case shouldn't. That said, it could all be improved which is what the thread is about rather than climbing on ancient hobby horses that have been beat to death. Try contributing something positive.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    The devs not wanting people doing old content should be enough for people not wanting to sub. That content being rendered obsolete and useless is not for the devs to decide. After all we paid for it and it should remain relevant. No wonder potential new players aren’t recommended to play WoW by their WoW veteran friends.

    People praising WoW for having years worth of content are simply liars because of this.
    Do you not have anything better to do? I don't love WoW anymore, but did WoW like kill your parents or something?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    They could do what GW2 does. Entire world is relevant even if early zones are easier once you're leveled and kitted out. Basically you enter a low-level zone as a higher level character you keep all of your gear and skills but your power is reduced so that it resembles what that low-level zone is roughly equal to. Again, the zone is easier because you have more abilities, etc. but none of them are like the walkover that WoW is. You can still get into trouble if you aren't paying any attention to what you're doing.

    I can remember killing rabbits in Elwynn Forest on my paladin by shouting at them from 20 yards away. Nothing like that in other games.

    EDIT:
    Of course, Blizzard devs would have to care about this. They don't because they very specifically design expansions to keep you in the new zones. As near as I can tell they don't even want people in older content.
    The problem is still that this just makes old content no longer trivial, it is however just as pointless for the current experience.

    What I want is something similar to Timewalking, in spirit if not in execution. Something that exists to give players a chance to see old deprecated content as something still somewhat relevant and not just old content.

    The amount of deprecated content castle outnumbers whatever is current, even more so when you consider how only the latest patch zone is usually worth giving a damn about.

    When was Maraudon last relevant to non-classic players? For many players Maraudon might as well be entirely new content, slightly shitty and ugly looking content, but content nevertheless.
    This goes double for old raids. Sunwell is a neat raid, but to the average player it's only notable for the legendary bow and a few choice transmogs.

    If the game tapped into this then even just bolting it onto the regular Timewalking rotation would mean that you gain a full years worth of content, easily as much as a full years worth of Holiday events.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #9
    It's pretty much impossible. They've rebuilt the systems and classes in the game so many times that it's impossible to go back and experience the content the way it was.

    Up until the end of Wrath it was still possible since they had built upon what existed from the start but after that they started overhauling everything with every new expansion. It's why timewalking can he such a mess and break as soon as they change anything at the top.

    I think we're going to accept that WoW will never be able to support old content the way that FFXIV does for example. But that's fine, playing the latest expansion or patch is where the fun is anyway.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Get over yourself dude. Fuck man, they can barely balance one tier of content and you want them to reintroduce 25 more? No thanks.
    Maybe painstaking spreadsheet balancing is a kinda silly and obsessive thing to prioritize over "our players have lots of evergreen content to do and couldn't run out if they tried".

    Another reason why putting the RL of a guild that ran the definitive theorycrafting site for the community in its day, in charge of the entire game, was a really stupid idea. Because that's where he thinks the 'fun' is.

  11. #11
    --- snip ---
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-10-16 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Forbidden Topic

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    It's pretty much impossible. They've rebuilt the systems and classes in the game so many times that it's impossible to go back and experience the content the way it was.

    Up until the end of Wrath it was still possible since they had built upon what existed from the start but after that they started overhauling everything with every new expansion. It's why timewalking can he such a mess and break as soon as they change anything at the top.

    I think we're going to accept that WoW will never be able to support old content the way that FFXIV does for example. But that's fine, playing the latest expansion or patch is where the fun is anyway.
    It's not about experiencing the content the way it was, but rather how to use the content in such a way that it is actually relevant.
    Making Nagrand relevant won't magically mean that the old attunement tree returns, but at least it can make going back and killing Talbuk feel like something that benefits the player outside only fuelling nostalgia or the occassional transmog.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I can remember killing rabbits in Elwynn Forest on my paladin by shouting at them from 20 yards away. Nothing like that in other games.
    Wow, thats cool! I'm going to try /yell boo in Elwynn when I get online later!
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  14. #14
    Put world quests all over the world.

  15. #15
    i don't want te redo content i've already done thousand of time

  16. #16
    I have said this somewhere before and I will say it again. Blizzard done fucked up big time and I don't mean with all the recent events, I mean with Classic WoW and now Classic WoW Mastery or whatever that stupid shit is called.

    What they should of done from the beginning was remake WoW, shit they could of just called it Warcraft (doesn't matter), using a engine like say Unreal Engine, and made all the necessary changes that vanilla WoW lacked, like all the quality of life improvements and class changes they needed, shit could of added classes and races, updates towns and cities, fixed the story issues that they fucked up massively as the game progressed. Ya know it would of been like a Resident Evil 2 remake but even better. Shit with the right amount of work it could of been like a new game with all the changes.

    We have all seen the WoW videos in different engines, looks fucking amazing and with the changes the game would of been so DOPE, everyone would of been all for it except for maybe poor ass people still playing on 10 yr old PC's but hey that is how things go. Nobody would of been looking forward to New World or Riot's MMORPG TBA or simply just leaving for Final Fantasy. They would of been locked and loaded for another 15 years of Warcraft in 4k.

    But no they dropped the ball, they suck so much ass they trying to give us WoW classic 2.0. It is pathetic at best.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The people who want to get the mounts will get the mounts (unless you missed the legendary questline in which case you pretty much can never get the cloaks or the Timeless Isle Cloud Serpent, which again is bullocks).
    which timeless isle cloud serpent are you referring to?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Maybe painstaking spreadsheet balancing is a kinda silly and obsessive thing to prioritize over "our players have lots of evergreen content to do and couldn't run out if they tried".

    Another reason why putting the RL of a guild that ran the definitive theorycrafting site for the community in its day, in charge of the entire game, was a really stupid idea. Because that's where he thinks the 'fun' is.
    So the game should just be a complete and utter shitshow that barely anybody enjoys because a few nostalgic people on WoW forums think that everything in a video game should be relevant always forever?

    That has nothing to do with Ion.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    So the game should just be a complete and utter shitshow that barely anybody enjoys because a few nostalgic people on WoW forums think that everything in a video game should be relevant always forever?

    That has nothing to do with Ion.
    Not everything in the game needs to be relevant all the time forever, but WoW is sitting on an absolute mountain of deprecated content that currently only really exists as a source for old transmogs and spiced up levelling.

    It's an improvement on what we currently have with Timewalking, and the improvements we see in Legion Timewalking.
    A way to allow old content to shine once again without having to wait for a potential Classic server.
    Flying over Suramar, idly oneshotting mobs is a far cry from what that content was like when it was current. Again, it's not about making that content perfectly valid as an endgame, but about finding ways to reintroduce it in a new way so it isn't just something you reminisce about.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #20
    This'd be a technical nightmare for their current systems unfortunately, but I'd think having some major unlocking incentives would make people go out into the world again / level once more. IE: A prestige system that lets you re-level and unlock a new class on the same character you're playing as. Let alone other rewards like exclusive cosmetics or ways to access old content once more (Like pre-cata). This would require much less relevancy to balance more to just progression, which is obviously what a lot of people care about anyways during leveling / re-experiencing old stuff.

    And as someone else said, put world quests everywhere. Obviously funnel players into a daily zone (That's engaging and not a nightmare) but allow them to either A) Progress slower but steadily in the old content or B) Progress up to a reduced point, and things like that.

    Provide bonuses to queueing specific expansion content dungeons as well - to even out the queue times while promoting more people playing everything that isn't the current expansion too.

    There are ways to do it but I don't think making all old content modernly relevant is a good use of dev time. It'd take quite a lot away from their lack of current content or future content anyways.

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