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  1. #1

    Does Wow need "sandbox" mode?

    Well, not Maw/Korthia kind of "sandbox". But zero challenge mode, that is purely about creativity.

    Riftbraker release trailer has made me think about this problem. When I was watching it, it was about "We have campaign, we have challenge mode..." and at that point I though "Challenge? Meh. I'm casual - this game isn't for me". But then they said "...and we also have no challenge sandbox mode, that is about creativity". And I thought "That's, what I want!!!".

  2. #2
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Well vanilla WoW felt more sandboxy in that you had open world PvP (that couldn't be circumnavigated by constant use of portals and flying). --- snip ---
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-10-16 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Forbidden Topic

  3. #3
    what would you create in this creative mode?

  4. #4
    So are you suggesting like create a quest from City of Heroes? Cause that's just grounds to either make it ENTIRELY irrelevant or extremely exploitable.

    Or maybe something like Neverwinter where you just make a story and your own raid for a D&D like experience...where I would say Neverwinter does do it a MILLION times better or better yet just actually play D&D. Hell technically wow already has this and its called go play on an RP Server.

    Maybe something like FF14's Gold Saucer where you just have a room full of mini games you can grind for fun stuff..where wow could REALLY use something like this but I don't think that's what your after

    Or are you talking like Minecraft like Sandbox..where seriously just play Minecraft.

  5. #5
    could create dungeons for your friends blizz got tons and tons of assets now anyway and with torghast now plenty of traps now as well

  6. #6
    Dreadlord sunxsera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Well, not Maw/Korthia kind of "sandbox". But zero challenge mode, that is purely about creativity.

    Riftbraker release trailer has made me think about this problem. When I was watching it, it was about "We have campaign, we have challenge mode..." and at that point I though "Challenge? Meh. I'm casual - this game isn't for me". But then they said "...and we also have no challenge sandbox mode, that is about creativity". And I thought "That's, what I want!!!".
    Ok, can you explain what this sandbox mode is for - and what to do in it ?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Well vanilla WoW felt more sandboxy in that you had open world PvP (that couldn't be circumnavigated by constant use of portals and flying). --- snip ---
    You haven't read my post. I don't want more "implicit objectives" content. Definition of "sandbox" in this case is more about "playing game your way", including ways, that are considered to be "cheating" in online games.

    There are two reasons, why players use "cheats". Trolling others in competitive games isn't my case. Other case - is experiencing game without being disturbed by so called "challenge". For example player want to see story, but it's gated behind content, that requires some level of skill and getting enough skill requires lots of training, that requires time, etc. - i.e. content is way too gated for that player to enjoy it.

    Some players, including me, love true sandbox games, like Terraria, because this games give us an option not to fight any bosses or something like that, but focus on creative content, such as building house.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    You haven't read my post. I don't want more "implicit objectives" content. Definition of "sandbox" in this case is more about "playing game your way", including ways, that are considered to be "cheating" in online games.

    There are two reasons, why players use "cheats". Trolling others in competitive games isn't my case. Other case - is experiencing game without being disturbed by so called "challenge". For example player want to see story, but it's gated behind content, that requires some level of skill and getting enough skill requires lots of training, that requires time, etc. - i.e. content is way too gated for that player to enjoy it.

    Some players, including me, love true sandbox games, like Terraria, because this games give us an option not to fight any bosses or something like that, but focus on creative content, such as building house.
    So go and play that?

    I think it's pretty obvious after almost 2 decades of WoW that this is not the game where you chill and build houses.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Some players, including me, love true sandbox games, like Terraria, because this games give us an option not to fight any bosses or something like that, but focus on creative content, such as building house.
    Well..no offense but wow should really stop stealing from other genres..we already have the watered down Roguelike, watered down Pokemon, watered down MOBA, watered down city builder, watered down Warcraft 3, watered down Autochess, watered down Plant's vs Zombies, etc, etc etc

    do we need a watered down Minecraft to boot...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    So go and play that?

    I think it's pretty obvious after almost 2 decades of WoW that this is not the game where you chill and build houses.
    I don't want Wow to turn into other genre game (while it would be ultimate solution to release other genre Warcraft game). Overall it's not about certain content at all. It's about developers' attitude to allow players to experiment with their game instead of putting players on a rails and maximally restricting them, because game is considered to be competitive.

    I didn't want to post video itself, because it could be considered to be advertising. But, I guess, you won't understand problem without seeing it. What I want to say, is that while game has competitive "Starcraft-like" mode, it also has Terraria style "Journey" mode, that allows players to experiment with it without being disturbed by challenge.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Julmara View Post
    could create dungeons for your friends blizz got tons and tons of assets now anyway and with torghast now plenty of traps now as well
    I like that idea, I think custom dungeons would be a very popular feature like custom maps in WarCraft and StarCraft. It would let the community solve the content drought problem for them. The WoW engine doesn't allow for content creation in game, but they can have an external Blizzard Dungeon Creator, similar to the map editors of the previous games and let you upload those custom dungeons and then play them through the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

  12. #12
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    I like that idea, I think custom dungeons would be a very popular feature like custom maps in WarCraft and StarCraft. It would let the community solve the content drought problem for them. The WoW engine doesn't allow for content creation in game, but they can have an external Blizzard Dungeon Creator, similar to the map editors of the previous games and let you upload those custom dungeons and then play them through the game.
    Star Trek Online and Neverwinter let players create their own dungeons and missions with the ingame assets, but for some reason Cryptic decided to shut down those features a few years ago.

  13. #13
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    I like that idea, I think custom dungeons would be a very popular feature like custom maps in WarCraft and StarCraft. It would let the community solve the content drought problem for them. The WoW engine doesn't allow for content creation in game, but they can have an external Blizzard Dungeon Creator, similar to the map editors of the previous games and let you upload those custom dungeons and then play them through the game.
    I don't think it would work.

    If there are any kind of rewards, people would make the easiest and most simplistic dungeons possible, and run those. If there are no rewards, then nobody would run them.

    Plus, I'm 100% sure that it would be either:

    1) You just populating existing dungeons with monsters of your choice.
    2) Building dungeons from big pieces of pre-created rooms glued and pasted together to make the most boring dungeons possible. Like how Doom 2016 did it in it's level creator.

    And the old engine is going to have big problems achieving either. You are most definitely NOT going to get your hands on the tools the developers use to create their dungeons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    I like that idea, I think custom dungeons would be a very popular feature like custom maps in WarCraft and StarCraft. It would let the community solve the content drought problem for them. The WoW engine doesn't allow for content creation in game, but they can have an external Blizzard Dungeon Creator, similar to the map editors of the previous games and let you upload those custom dungeons and then play them through the game.
    on a level its basically like garissons just that you can also put down mobs to beat
    you can also make your own spells with effects for example

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    I like that idea, I think custom dungeons would be a very popular feature like custom maps in WarCraft and StarCraft. It would let the community solve the content drought problem for them. The WoW engine doesn't allow for content creation in game, but they can have an external Blizzard Dungeon Creator, similar to the map editors of the previous games and let you upload those custom dungeons and then play them through the game.
    Blizzard will never ever again go in this direction again....
    Do people just forget what happened back in the old'day?
    - They give us editor
    - We create new game mode (dota, tower defence, maze)
    - Game mode was more played then OG game
    - Other company born or stole mode idea and go new IP (LOL)
    - Blizz lose shitons of opportunity and money
    (like battleroyal went savage for arma3 vs dayz vs pubg vs fortnite)

    If u sell music, u do not get access to your music instruments to other, beacuse other can be better then u.

    The only thing i learn in 15 plus years of blizzard is that they are Freaking Afraid of giving player any kind of freedom.
    They are to pridefull even in their own failing and a patological control freak company
    Have you notice that while other company make statement when something goes bad and admit their fault, blizzard always dimishing the problem with the classic "PR response".
    Last edited by Scarnage86; 2021-10-16 at 08:16 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    what would you create in this creative mode?
    perhaps dungeons/raids or dare I say it.... player/guild housing!

  17. #17
    WoW already has sandbox mode.

    For new content: LFR and LFD let you experience the content at an easy to beat level.
    For old content: You can already one-shot everything, so wander around and do whatever you want.

    Where WoW doesn't have a sandbox mode is the expansion(s) between the current content and the really old stuff. You're not yet strong enough to solo that stuff, but you also don't need a full raid to beat any of it. Since few people do this content, it might make sense to make all old content -- including the most recent expansion -- soloable.

    Beyond that, wow doesn't need any cheat modes active.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Some players, including me, love true sandbox games, like Terraria, because this games give us an option not to fight any bosses or something like that, but focus on creative content, such as building house.
    yeah but the difference between "normal" mode and "sandbox mode" in terraria/minecraft/etc is basically turning god mode on/off and maybe spawning in some resources.

    but once you stray even a little bit it becomes a lot tougher, e.g. look at warcraft/starcraft RTS map editors. that's technically creative mode for those games but sure requires more effort.

    and then you get to games like wow where there is absolutely zero support for it nor a obvious way to put it in.

    you can't even articulate what you want to do in wow sandbox mode. you just link a game in a completely different genre with no/small scale multiplayer that has building elements in it's design as if that makes it obvious.

    honestly it sounds more like you want easy/story mode instead of sandbox/creative mode.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-10-16 at 08:43 PM.

  19. #19
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarnage86 View Post
    Blizzard will never ever again go in this direction again....
    Do people just forget what happened back in the old'day?
    - They give us editor
    - We create new game mode (dota, tower defence, maze)
    - Game mode was more played then OG game
    - Other company born or stole mode idea and go new IP (LOL)
    - Blizz lose shitons of opportunity and money
    (like battleroyal went savage for arma3 vs dayz vs pubg vs fortnite)
    WoW is a little different in that respect. They control what the client sees and doesn't see and if they ever decided to provide some creation tools I suspect that would all work within a framework that stuff would need to be submitted to Blizzard and approved before they would add it to the game.

    Personally, I think they should do this. GC mused about it a few times before he left and there's a history for it with other games. Some kind of quarterly content to turn in good dungeons, raids, or scenarios with the winner to be determined by Blizzard would likely be a popular thing and it would be a decent recruiting tool for someone really talented. Remember that GC got his start by submitting scenarios to Age of Empires.

    But no one should think that their dick-shaped dungeon is ever going to be seen by anyone other than Blizzard devs who will laugh and reject it. An editor for WoW won't be anything like what was created for StarCraft.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-10-16 at 10:32 PM.
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  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
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    I think it would be a good idea for sure.

    However it would need to be separate from the base game in a way. Have a server set up that is purely for the sandbox mode. On this server you cannot transfer to or away from with a character. I don't know what sort of tools they could give the players but even something basic that let's you mix and match existing assets would be a good start.

    This could add a much needed breath of fresh air to the game.

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