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  1. #321
    Now that is something to look forward to. Though I hope Starship will get up there first, at least it should if the last tests are any indication. What I have questions about is the production rate for SLS. Musk seems to be partially on the way to spamming new boosters and Starships, even before the first launch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  2. #322
    SLS is utter trash. Its existence is a net negative for the country. If it explodes on the launch pad it should be a national holiday of celebration.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The Oculus, but it's the whole expansion!" -- Brianna Royce, Massively OP, on Dragon Riding
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  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    SLS is utter trash. Its existence is a net negative for the country. If it explodes on the launch pad it should be a national holiday of celebration.
    Brilliant analysis. Now do yourself.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Brilliant analysis. Now do yourself.
    It's enormously more expensive per mass to orbit than Falcon Heavy, never mind Starship. It has no mission to justify it, and at what it costs it cannot have any mission that could make sense. It exists purely as a pork barrel spending delivery vehicle. It's a political parasite sucking on the taxpayers and deserves extermination.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The Oculus, but it's the whole expansion!" -- Brianna Royce, Massively OP, on Dragon Riding
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler

  5. #325
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    It's enormously more expensive per mass to orbit than Falcon Heavy, never mind Starship. It has no mission to justify it, and at what it costs it cannot have any mission that could make sense. It exists purely as a pork barrel spending delivery vehicle. It's a political parasite sucking on the taxpayers and deserves extermination.
    You can hate SLS all you want, Starship isn't lifting humans off of Earth for years so SLS is what we have now.

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  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    You can hate SLS all you want, Starship isn't lifting humans off of Earth for years so SLS is what we have now.
    You seem to have ignored the stated fact that SLS is useless even if Starship never flies.

    I find it truly incredible that you could consider SLS a worthy program. How can you possibly justify believing that?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The Oculus, but it's the whole expansion!" -- Brianna Royce, Massively OP, on Dragon Riding
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler

  7. #327
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You seem to have ignored the stated fact that SLS is useless even if Starship never flies.

    I find it truly incredible that you could consider SLS a worthy program. How can you possibly justify believing that?
    The objective is to get to the Moon.

    One just needs a lander. The other is years from even being allowed to have humans on board.

    Its not a matter of which is better. Starship will be much better. I've said it multiple times in this thread. SLS is what we have now and much closer to meeting its objectives than Starship. Theres is no 'one is better than the other' when Artemis relies on both.

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  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    The objective is to get to the Moon.

    One just needs a lander. The other is years from even being allowed to have humans on board.

    Its not a matter of which is better. Starship will be much better. I've said it multiple times in this thread. SLS is what we have now and much closer to meeting its objectives than Starship. Theres is no 'one is better than the other' when Artemis relies on both.
    Getting to the moon with someone as expensive as SLS is useless. It's Apollo all over again, an unsustainable dead end. It is not worth doing.

    Space makes sense as a human activity only if its on a path to get much cheaper, so practically useful things can occur there. One doesn't need Starship for that; Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy would allow return to the moon much more cheaply than anything based on SLS would. In particular, they would have been enabled by in-space propellant transfer, so any landing (or other) vehicles could be launched empty and fueled in orbit by multiple launches of cheap launchers. The senate porkmeisters explicitly killed NASA efforts to mature propellant depots because they knew it would destroy any remaining case for launchers like SLS.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2022-03-20 at 11:45 AM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The Oculus, but it's the whole expansion!" -- Brianna Royce, Massively OP, on Dragon Riding
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler

  9. #329
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Getting to the moon with someone as expensive as SLS is useless. It's Apollo all over again, an unsustainable dead end. It is not worth doing.

    Space makes sense as a human activity only if its on a path to get much cheaper, so practically useful things can occur there. One doesn't need Starship for that; Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy would allow return to the moon much more cheaply than anything based on SLS would. In particular, they would have been enabled by in-space propellant transfer, so any landing (or other) vehicles could be launched empty and fueled in orbit by multiple launches of cheap launchers. The senate porkmeisters explicitly killed NASA efforts to mature propellant depots because they knew it would destroy any remaining case for launchers like SLS.

    A Falcon 9 to launch a non-existent lunar Dragon capsule that you would then transfer the capsule to a Falcon Heavy? Come on now

    SpaceX does not have a deep space capsule. Propellant is still an R&D project so you can't just throw that in as a solution. Falcon Heavy is not human rated for several reasons.

    Im not sure why you keep arguing that SLS is efficient because no one has made that claim. Either way no first step is cheap or efficient and of course later projects will be cheaper, faster. Artemis is not about being cheap, fast, efficient, that's the role of the projects that come after...thats how spaceflight...science general works. Right now the goal is a proof of concept and the back of proven technology to prepare spaceflight beyond the Moon. SpaceX is cheap and efficient because they had decades of data from others at their disposal. Even then they 'wasted' millions getting to where they are the same way you see SLS as a 'waste'. You have to progress through the rough processes to get to the fun stuff.

    SLS is how we get to the Moon. Full stop. Doesn't matter if someone has been plans on some table, any and all alternatives are years out. Starship is the closest alternative and it still has many milestones to get through. Right now both rockets need each other, it is what it is.

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  10. #330
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    For those wondering the cause of the spikes in the JWST...

  11. #331
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    The Artimus wet dress rehearsal has been postponed.
    Operations were stopped on Sunday before loading propellants into the core stage of the rocket "due to loss of ability to pressurize the mobile launcher," according to an update shared by the agency.
    Prime and redundant supply fans for the mobile launcher weren't working properly.
    For those in the know, what do the mentioned reasons for the delay actually mean? If it's possible to surmise from the limited information.

  12. #332
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The Artimus wet dress rehearsal has been postponed.

    For those in the know, what do the mentioned reasons for the delay actually mean? If it's possible to surmise from the limited information.
    Simply answer:

    The structure/vehicle that the rocket is sitting on broke.

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  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Simply answer:

    The structure/vehicle that the rocket is sitting on broke.
    Crap - long turnaround or just "change a tire and we're good" in space launch lingo?

  14. #334
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Crap - long turnaround or just "change a tire and we're good" in space launch lingo?

    They tried again today but there was another issue with the launcher. They might just take a breather, the combination of weather and the tests takes a toll on the crews. Down the road NASA and SpaceX have also been trying to get another mission launched. Read an article that said NASA might just postpone the SLS tests until next week so they can at least focus on the mission that actually has to launch - and they want to get that one up ASAP because there's another launch scheduled right behind it.

    So considering SLS can wait, they might just pull it back and reschedule the whole tests. The issues they have faced are not really uncommon, their 'launch window' (it's just a simulated launch but they are treating it like it is real) is very small though. Best case, everything works on Tuesday. Worst case, NASA decides it was to do a full review of the mobile launcher, pushing a real launch back to who knows.

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  15. #335
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    NASA is kind of struggling from success. The SLS wet dress rehearsal is postponed again to make room for other rockets. Working through kinks during a wet dress, even a normal countdown, is normal. What would normally be fixed on the pad throughout the week has to done on a day or wait a whole week so another rocket can launch.


    The good thing is that a lot of logistics/procedural problems are being addressed and everyone is learning how to work with a very busy spaceport.


    Pretty sure they are doing real world testing one how much stress they can put the rocket through. Apparently a lot. May is very light on number of launches taking place. We not see the rehearsals resume until then so they can work uninterrupted.

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  16. #336
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    NASA is kind of struggling from success. The SLS wet dress rehearsal is postponed again to make room for other rockets. Working through kinks during a wet dress, even a normal countdown, is normal. What would normally be fixed on the pad throughout the week has to done on a day or wait a whole week so another rocket can launch.


    The good thing is that a lot of logistics/procedural problems are being addressed and everyone is learning how to work with a very busy spaceport.


    Pretty sure they are doing real world testing one how much stress they can put the rocket through. Apparently a lot. May is very light on number of launches taking place. We not see the rehearsals resume until then so they can work uninterrupted.
    That seems like a good thing overall, even if it pushes the SLS launch back a few weeks. And those issues are just the normal "stuff" that comes up with wet dress rehearsals, right? Nothing to worry about overall if I'm reading the updates correctly.

  17. #337
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The Artimus wet dress rehearsal has been postponed.

    For those in the know, what do the mentioned reasons for the delay actually mean? If it's possible to surmise from the limited information.
    Launcher borked, needs fixing

  18. #338

  19. #339
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    It would be really, REALLY interesting, if all the bullshit conspiracy theories and whack-job stories from/about Area-51 were true.

  20. #340
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