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  1. #361
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The last chart I saw that outlined the Moon program was using both SLS and Starliner to get there - not SLS first, and then Starliner. But I'm the first to admit I could have bad info and/or misunderstood the good info I had.

    What you're saying above, about using the SLS to do it all first (again, lol - kidding, nice subpoint about how the first time we got there was really just a singular purpose mission, rather than the roots to expand - most people don't know that about the Apollo program), makes sense and the proof of concept analogy works there, too.

    I thought NASA dumped them awhile back, and they are still looking for vendors, which means a real working take-it-to-the-moon suit is still years away.
    When I say 'first' I mean the first ones taking astronauts to xyz destination vs what the other user is talking about - waiting for SpaceX to be able to do it on its own.

    The chart you're talking about is using SLS (NASA) and Starship (SpaceX). SLS doesn't have a lander so it will use Starship. The state of the Starship SpaceX delivers depends on how far along SpaceX gets with its design. Could be an empty shell, could actually have accommodations for the astronauts. SLS doesn't actually need Starship to be its lander but SpaceX offered to do it cheaper than any one else and will mostly take over for NASA after the intital missions anyway.

    Wrapping all that up, when we land astronauts on the Moon, they will ride to an orbit around the Moon aboard SLS. Starship will land them onto the surface of the Moon and return to their capsule when it's time to go. The capsule will return the astronauts to Earth. NASA wants to remove SLS from the process ASAP so that later trips will only involve Starship (or whatever commercial agency if one catches up).

    -------

    On the spacesuits. They picked the new vendors about 2 weeks ago. Hopefully the companies were picked because they were closer to production...hopefully.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post

    People at NASA were calling for a moon return using large numbers of smallish launch vehicles, but congress kill all work on the necessary technology (in-space propellant transfer), since they knew it threatened the shuttle-derived launch vehicle gravy train. The goal of the legislators was never to get to the moon, it was to preserve the flow of $$$ to their preferred contractors. In this they were helped by useful idiots who defend this depravity.
    I don't dispute that. I've made the same argument myself. You said SLS isn't viable as if it's not going to work or do what is designed to do. Everyone knows it's expensive. Everyone knows the program got screwed by Congress and could have been cheaper. The thing is built now. It's going to Moon. Unless you have a time machine there's no point in complaining now. Relax.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  2. #362
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    When I say 'first' I mean the first ones taking astronauts to xyz destination vs what the other user is talking about - waiting for SpaceX to be able to do it on its own.

    The chart you're talking about is using SLS (NASA) and Starship (SpaceX). SLS doesn't have a lander so it will use Starship. The state of the Starship SpaceX delivers depends on how far along SpaceX gets with its design. Could be an empty shell, could actually have accommodations for the astronauts. SLS doesn't actually need Starship to be its lander but SpaceX offered to do it cheaper than any one else and will mostly take over for NASA after the intital missions anyway.

    Wrapping all that up, when we land astronauts on the Moon, they will ride to an orbit around the Moon aboard SLS. Starship will land them onto the surface of the Moon and return to their capsule when it's time to go. The capsule will return the astronauts to Earth. NASA wants to remove SLS from the process ASAP so that later trips will only involve Starship (or whatever commercial agency if one catches up).

    -------

    On the spacesuits. They picked the new vendors about 2 weeks ago. Hopefully the companies were picked because they were closer to production...hopefully.
    Ok, that was the general picture I had from that chart I so unceremoniously didn't link. Thanks for that summary. I really hope it works out. Sounds like solid and mostly proven tech with some windows built in for making it better/faster. The moon orbit base alone will be terrific. To actually have a base on the ground there would be insane.

    Fingers crossed re the spacesuits.

  3. #363
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Watching the NASA Capstone launch livestream. Same asswipe that ruined Launch America is commentating and acting like we are children who need a HALO orbit explained to us. Yuck.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    When I say 'first' I mean the first ones taking astronauts to xyz destination vs what the other user is talking about - waiting for SpaceX to be able to do it on its own.

    The chart you're talking about is using SLS (NASA) and Starship (SpaceX). SLS doesn't have a lander so it will use Starship. The state of the Starship SpaceX delivers depends on how far along SpaceX gets with its design. Could be an empty shell, could actually have accommodations for the astronauts. SLS doesn't actually need Starship to be its lander but SpaceX offered to do it cheaper than any one else and will mostly take over for NASA after the intital missions anyway.

    Wrapping all that up, when we land astronauts on the Moon, they will ride to an orbit around the Moon aboard SLS. Starship will land them onto the surface of the Moon and return to their capsule when it's time to go. The capsule will return the astronauts to Earth. NASA wants to remove SLS from the process ASAP so that later trips will only involve Starship (or whatever commercial agency if one catches up).

    -------

    On the spacesuits. They picked the new vendors about 2 weeks ago. Hopefully the companies were picked because they were closer to production...hopefully.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't dispute that. I've made the same argument myself. You said SLS isn't viable as if it's not going to work or do what is designed to do. Everyone knows it's expensive. Everyone knows the program got screwed by Congress and could have been cheaper. The thing is built now. It's going to Moon. Unless you have a time machine there's no point in complaining now. Relax.
    I see nowhere official that it has been confirmed that Starship will take over entirely for SLS. It's speculated for Mars, but even then SLS is built to be upgraded to send missions to Mars itself. I expect the two to be part of a dissimilar architecture for Mars, Io, and Titan long term.

  4. #364
    Someone at NASA is excited for next week. The live stream for JWST’s first fully calibrated images has been listed. It starts at 1030 ET on the 12th.


  5. #365
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Watching the NASA Capstone launch livestream. Same asswipe that ruined Launch America is commentating and acting like we are children who need a HALO orbit explained to us. Yuck.
    Not being elitist snobs in regards to watching NASA events is something we should encourage, in case you were curious. Inclusion, not exclusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    I see nowhere official that it has been confirmed that Starship will take over entirely for SLS. It's speculated for Mars, but even then SLS is built to be upgraded to send missions to Mars itself. I expect the two to be part of a dissimilar architecture for Mars, Io, and Titan long term.
    At this point, I think the whole program is up for grabs, depending on a number of factors.

  6. #366
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Watching the NASA Capstone launch livestream. Same asswipe that ruined Launch America is commentating and acting like we are children who need a HALO orbit explained to us. Yuck.
    Maybe there are kids watching that have no idea what a HALO orbit is or how it works? It is summer and I'm sure there are a few out kids watching and absorbing the information like sponges.

  7. #367
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Maybe there are kids watching that have no idea what a HALO orbit is or how it works? It is summer and I'm sure there are a few out kids watching and absorbing the information like sponges.
    It was at 3 am MST. That's 5 am EST, 2 am PST. No kid is going to want to wake up that early for a launch.

  8. #368
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    It was at 3 am MST. That's 5 am EST, 2 am PST. No kid is going to want to wake up that early for a launch.
    I love that you think that's true. Just adorable. It's also amazing how you avoid the part where you're categorically wrong for making the criticism you did, yet can't find the strength to just admit you were wrong, and move on, even on such a minor thing. Instead, it will be pages of you defending a ridiculous and minor position.

    /popcorn

  9. #369
    Banned Hammerfest's Avatar
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    You are all so deceived.

  10. #370
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I love that you think that's true. Just adorable. It's also amazing how you avoid the part where you're categorically wrong for making the criticism you did, yet can't find the strength to just admit you were wrong, and move on, even on such a minor thing. Instead, it will be pages of you defending a ridiculous and minor position.

    /popcorn
    How am I wrong? I'm sick and tired of wanting to watch a launch but having what the fuck a near-rectilinear halo orbit is explained to me like I'm a child at almost 4 am. It's simple enough in this day and age to have a side broadcast without the child teaching moments for those of us who've been paying attention to launches and the space industry for ten years

  11. #371
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Seems like a good time to repost my own comments from the original SLS and Orion discussion threads... over eight years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    My (admittedly cynical) expectation for the SLS is that it'll fly twice - once unmanned and once manned - and then be abandoned as too expensive. (Three times if the ludicrous idea to use it for delivery of crew to the ISS goes through; it massively overkill for the job, like using a semi to deliver pizza.) The manned mission will likely be high lunar orbit, because PR. (We've gone farther from Earth than ever before!) I truly hope my cynicism proves unjustified on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    There are reasons the SLS is called the Senate Launch System and Rocket to Nowhere. And while NASA (or someone else) may someday find something wonderful to do with the Orion, right now its primary mission seems to be getting federal dollars into Lockheed Martin's bank accounts. (And that's without mentioning that both will likely be rendered obsolete by SpaceX before they reach operational status.)
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Sorry bud, I'll pass. Your unbalanced emotional hatred for Musk unfortunately clouds your otherwise relatively sound opinion re space exploration. It's a shame, but I'm not going to dive into your little rabbit hole with you..
    I’d say only an unbalanced person wouldn’t dislike Musk. You irrational love for him is clouding your ability to rationally address the point that Musk is most assuredly not the only reason the US sends people into space in the modern era.

  13. #373
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuke View Post
    I’d say only an unbalanced person wouldn’t dislike Musk. You irrational love for him is clouding your ability to rationally address the point that Musk is most assuredly not the only reason the US sends people into space in the modern era.
    I would have to agree with you first assessment - his personal actions over the past few years have become reprehensible. What's really sad is that had you bothered to actually read any of this thread or other recent ones re Musk you would realize that you are a liar. But don't worry, we know. Let's see if you can redeem yourself and pick out your lie. We'll wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuke View Post
    Musk is most assuredly not the only reason the US sends people into space in the modern era.
    What was it I said exactly again? Do you remember? Can you cite it?

  14. #374
    JWST gets image debut early. Happening now.
    Last edited by Snuke; 2022-07-11 at 10:22 PM.

  15. #375
    Fucking hell they screwed this reveal up. An hour's delay, some semi-coherent waffling from Biden and then when they finally showed the image it was on a tiny part of the screen and you couldn't even see it properly. Here it is, from NASA's Twitter, the deepest infra-red image of the universe ever taken:



    https://www.nasa.gov/webbfirstimages
    Last edited by DarkAmbient; 2022-07-11 at 10:29 PM.

  16. #376
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Fucking hell they screwed this reveal up. An hour's delay, some semi-coherent waffling from Biden and then when they finally showed the image it was on a tiny part of the screen and you couldn't even see it properly. Here it is, from NASA's Twitter, the deepest infra-red image of the universe ever taken:



    https://www.nasa.gov/webbfirstimages
    Just fantastic. The imagery...holy cow. Those are all galaxies (except for the star-like glowies, those are actually stars IIRC).

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Just fantastic. The imagery...holy cow. Those are all galaxies (except for the star-like glowies, those are actually stars IIRC).
    The craziest part isn't even what's on this photo. It's that this is such a tiny fraction of whats out there. Can't even begin to comprehend how small the space in that photo is compared to the rest of the universe.

    Edit: Apparently this shows galaxies as they appeared 4.6 years ago. Don't know why that guy in the stream said 13billion, unless I misheard.
    Last edited by Xilurm; 2022-07-11 at 10:50 PM.

  18. #378
    That is a lot of galaxies. And from a very, very small part of the sky.

    The way I heard it described is if you take a grain of rice and hold it up at arms length, that is the part of the sky this image is taken from.

  19. #379
    Yeah, it's beautiful. It's difficult to describe how these deep field images make me feel. Aside from the wonder there's a sense of melancholy, for all the things that we'll never know.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    The craziest part isn't even what's on this photo. It's that this is such a tiny fraction of whats out there. Can't even begin to comprehend how small the space in that photo is compared to the rest of the universe.

    Edit: Apparently this shows galaxies as they appeared 4.6 years ago. Don't know why that guy in the stream said 13billion, unless I misheard.
    4.6 billion, but that isn't the point. The part that blows me away is the sheer amount of gravitational lensing going on. That means there are some major amounts of extremely dense objects in that picture.

    I still say my favorite picture is the extremely high res image of Andromeda. It has 1.5 gigapixels in the image and you can make out a large amount of individual stars.

    https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard...dromeda-galaxy

    This link has a zoomable tool that allows you to zoom in quite far.

    https://esahubble.org/images/heic1502a/
    Last edited by gondrin; 2022-07-12 at 12:11 AM.

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