Who should be the next Warmonger?

[Maljinwo]

And I'll keep bringing them up because they're a Canonical representation of what would happen if Alleria were to succumb to the whispers (she would take control of the entire Alliance, destroy Stormwind, summon an army of Void creatures, and slaughter or corrupt anyone in her way). The Ren'dorei would reign unopposed until the arrival of the plot-armoured PC.

So it's canon that Alleria dies by my hand?

Neat

[Viconia]

Dialogue between the Ren'dorei and the Brother in the Cathedral of Light implies that the building is also permeating with Light energies, not too differently from the chapel in the Plaguelands. The Vision of N'Zoth is accurate in its portrayal of what would happen if Alleria succumbed in Stormwind. The Cathedral of Light, like the Sunwell, is a sanctuary of the Light and thus would serve as a gateway for the Void forces (hence why in the Vision Alleria and the Portal to Ny'alotha reside inside the Cathedral, and that's the source of the corruption).

The Vision might have been engineered by N'Zoth but it still offers us a relatively accurate representation of what would happen if the Ren'dorei succumbed to the whispers. Again, the Dark Naaru in Mac'aree was able to completely corrupt the city to the point that not even the Legion dared go near it. Alleria absorbed that Dark Naaru. She can absolutely destroy Stormwind if she unleashed her power. We can conclude this based on what the Dark Naaru did in Mac'aree and what the Dark Star was about to do in Karabor (annihilate all the draenei there).

The Dark Naaru corrupted a portion of the city, which is reinforced by the Shadowguard, we can otherwise see demons all around the zone. Left alone the Void's power might've grown bigger or more volatile, which I think was the case with the Dark Star. Different cases either way.

Just because it's a vision doesn't mean we have to dismiss it, just like we don't dismiss WoD showing us what would happen if the orcs never drank the Demon blood, even though it's an alternate reality.

We can take the vision as a frame of possibility, but with the caveat that it's unreliable af since it's conjured by an eternal being specialized in manipulation of the mind. And again, Orgrimmar was 1:1 with Stormwind in those visions, without founts of Light and the ren'dorei.

I believe Alleria is special, different from other ren'dorei, for swallowing the Dark Naaru, but so far she hasn't portrayed any powers besides what all void elves can do (the gates and such). She's said she can turn her voidstate on and off at will, but afaik she hasn't done so post-Argus, therefore only she and Locus-Walker know the level of her power. Considering she partook in the Blood War don't you think the Alliance could've used a nuclear-option if she was capable of such? No, I think it's reasonable to presume her power boost at best amounts to Jailer-boosted Sylvanas or the Night Warrior. It definitely isn't a city-destroyer.

Velen doesn't do anything but we know that he is extremely powerful, since he is an immortal who lived for 25000 years old, was the original leader of the Eredar (so he's got to be a very powerful Arcane user, to lead a species of Arcane users that fascinated even Sargeras), and is one of the strongest champions of the Light and is blessed by the Naaru. He's amongst the strongest leaders of the Alliance.

And yet even Velen could do nothing against the Dark Star, his only option was giving his life to purify the Dark Naaru. Alleria has absorbed an entity just like the Dark Star, I'll let you do the math.

Velen was part of a triumvirate with Kil'jaeden and Archimonde. From Mac'aree's arcane school we know Archimonde was the arcane master of the three. I don't remember what Kil'jaeden is, but I've never seen Velen possess any mentionable power. His sacrifice purifying the Dark Star may just as well be his affinity with Light and connection with the naaru, which I think is true considering he mentored Anduin in the ways of the Light and from his inception into the game has dealt with naaru. He's an old priest with Light-beings as friends, essentially, probably one of the most powerful priests there are, but still not that noteworthy from what we can see. He wasn't much help when his son attacked Exodar. If he was as awesome as you say we'd have seen him wreck people in that scenario.

A Thousand Years of War was written by Robert Brooks, who left Blizzard on September 2021 during the ongoing lawsuit. Thus its canonicity is dubious.

Brooks's contribution is valid as long as Blizzard doesn't declare otherwise.

[Varodoc]

She's said she can turn her voidstate on and off at will, but afaik she hasn't done so post-Argus

She did that in the Three Sisters comic when she got into an argument with Sylvanas.

Considering she partook in the Blood War don't you think the Alliance could've used a nuclear-option if she was capable of such?

This is a weak argument, it's not exactly a secret that the Alliance didn't use a lot of their most powerful weapons during the Blood War, like the Vindicaar.

Jaina didn't bring her magical ship to Orgrimmar at the end even though she could have easily bombarded its walls and devastated the defenders.

Velen was part of a triumvirate with Kil'jaeden and Archimonde.

Archimonde came in later, originally it was a duumvirate under Velen and Kil'jaeden. That's also why Archimonde looks younger than them.

If he was as awesome as you say we'd have seen him wreck people in that scenario.

Bad writing is the answer always when it comes to this. We know these characters are very powerful, Blizzard just doesn't care to show it unless their name is Jaina (talking about the Alliance side).

Hell Tyrande was supposed to be the almighty avatar of Elune and all she did in BfA was kill a Val'kyr (something a lvl 40 player could already do in Andorhal) and immobilize a bunch of Forsaken soldiers.

Brooks's contribution is valid as long as Blizzard doesn't declare otherwise.

Since he's no longer affiliated with Blizzard, I'll take what he wrote with a grain of salt.

Just like I take everything Metzen wrote with a grain of salt. Just like I no longer think there's only one Legion for all timelines, because Blizzard distanced themselves completely from Afrasiabi (the one who said that).

[Aucald]

In an earlier quest we see what happens if the Dark Star is unleashed:

As we see in this vision, Velen was too weak to hold back the unleashed Dark Star and was overwhelmed. Velen himself admits that he couldn't hold back the Dark Star. His only option was to purify and redeem the Dark Star so that it couldn't unleash its powers, if it did, then the Draenei would have been exterminated.

In Legion we see that even the Burning Legion did not dare come close to Mac'aree, which was taken over by a Dark Naaru. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde, like Velen, were scared of that power. Kil'jaeden had the Seat of the Triumvirate sealed to contain L'ura (back when she was still a Light Naaru), instead of trying to destroy her.

Velen's visions, as shown in the The Prophet's Lesson, are only possibilities of things that could be - they're not certain, especially in light of the fact that the Battle of Karabor didn't happen the way the vision was shown. Not to mention that in WoD it was already shown that AU Velen's ability to divine the future was further compromised beyond the norm, hence the divisions in the ranks of the Draenei that led to the formation of the Sargerai. Needless to say, there are a lot more unexplored possibilities, and it's a stretch to claim that the entire thing rests solely on either Velen's weakness or the Dark Star's unstoppable nature - we already know the Naaru can be destroyed, after all.

Also, the Legion is all over Mac'Aree/Eredath, so they're definitely not scared of L'ura. The three Overseers and the Talgathi incursion force are all across eastern Mac'Aree/Eredath.

Turalyon couldn't scratch Illidan and had his sword blocked by Illidan with one hand after Xe'ra mentally and physically tortured him.

Illidan does an impressive sword catch, sure - but as the cinematic winds on you can easily see Illidan's Fel blood beginning to run down his arm from the wound in his hand. He's definitely a bit more than "scratched."

Is this from the audio drama? If so the writer of the audio drama was fired recently. Its canonicity is dubious.

It's expounded on during one of the expository bits on the Vindicaar, as well as in the audio drama. That's also not how canon works.

[Varodoc]

Turalyon is not killing Alleria ever unless he stabs her while she is sleeping or something.

I don't know why people lately are so crazy with Alliance characters dying for drama.

[sighy]

Velen doesn't do anything but we know that he is extremely powerful, since he is an immortal who lived for 25000 years old, was the original leader of the Eredar (so he's got to be a very powerful Arcane user, to lead a species of Arcane users that fascinated even Sargeras), and is one of the strongest champions of the Light and is blessed by the Naaru. He's amongst the strongest leaders of the Alliance.

And yet even Velen could do nothing against the Dark Star, his only option was giving his life to purify the Dark Naaru. Alleria has absorbed an entity just like the Dark Star, I'll let you do the math.

Lol, well Naaru are generally utility, because when they get under any form of scrutiny they pretty much always get beaten into cosmic space nothings. And a comparably empowered Cho'gall(he also absorbed a full void naaru) wasn't even worth his own boss fight. To be honest after the Illidan cinematic Naaru will always look like 2 bit chumps.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know why people lately are so crazy with Alliance characters dying for drama.

Because there aren't any major Horde characters left to kill xD

[geco]

Because there aren't any major Horde characters left to kill xD

And because there are plenty of characters from the Alliance.
We currently have between 4 to 12 major Kaldorei pjs. But almost none had a development beyond their precentaicon.

[MORGATH99]

the summoning stone has had enough its marching for war

[KOUNTERPARTS]

If I'm not confusing anything, Danuser actually liked the series finale of Game of Thrones, so I can see a similar ending with Turalyon reluctantly killing his crazy wife or something like that. Or vice versa, cause I heard that some people thought the GoT finale was sexist.

I can see this happening. Turalyon has already shown his moral fiber is much stronger than Alleria; his faith in his calling and his abilities as a champion. Alleria has already been implied on more than 1 occasion to have a weaker will; as it takes all of her will just to not succumb to the Void (as seen in N'Zoth's vision + from the audio books)

[sighy]

And because there are plenty of characters from the Alliance.
We currently have between 4 to 12 major Kaldorei pjs. But almost none had a development beyond their precentaicon.

Kaldorei do have the most agregious case of "New character, who nobody ever heard of, who fulfills the exact same role as that other famous character people actually care about, who just happened to have more red flags than the communist party happened to suffer a terrible fate. What a coincidence!"

[geco]

Kaldorei do have the most agregious case of "New character, who nobody ever heard of, who fulfills the exact same role as that other famous character people actually care about, who just happened to have more red flags than the communist party happened to suffer a terrible fate. What a coincidence!"

Not to mention that all those red bandanas are put to the forces by some plot that they discarded.

And there is still the part of "Really interesting Arc of a character that interests the majority who is 100% off camera".

[BaumanKing]

I can see this happening. Turalyon has already shown his moral fiber is much stronger than Alleria; his faith in his calling and his abilities as a champion. Alleria has already been implied on more than 1 occasion to have a weaker will; as it takes all of her will just to not succumb to the Void (as seen in N'Zoth's vision + from the audio books)

Yeah, exactly. Between him and Alleria he’s the lighter of the two where grey morality is concerned. Even in Shadows Rising, when Alleria almost got into a fight with Jaina, it was Turalyon who calmed his wife down, which is quite symbolic.

[Varodoc]

Mentally stable man calms down his crazy wife then puts her down once he realizes she's too insane to live.

Yep, don't see anything wrong with such a story arc

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Mentally stable man calms down his crazy wife then puts her down once he realizes she's too insane to live.

Yep, don't see anything wrong with such a story arc

Good thing we didn't ask.


But hey thanks for acknowledging Alleria is insane and needs to be put down.

[Viconia]

She did that in the Three Sisters comic when she got into an argument with Sylvanas.

Forgot about that. Although Alleria didn't do anything with it in that occasion, as Vereesa managed to snap both her and Sylv out of it by making it all about herself. Rant time: I mean really, consider all that both Sylv and Alleria have gone through and boohoo, would someone give attention to poor little Vereesa who's been so ronery in Dalaran without her sisters. /rant

This is a weak argument, it's not exactly a secret that the Alliance didn't use a lot of their most powerful weapons during the Blood War, like the Vindicaar.

Jaina didn't bring her magical ship to Orgrimmar at the end even though she could have easily bombarded its walls and devastated the defenders.

Bad writing is the answer always when it comes to this. We know these characters are very powerful, Blizzard just doesn't care to show it unless their name is Jaina (talking about the Alliance side).

Hell Tyrande was supposed to be the almighty avatar of Elune and all she did in BfA was kill a Val'kyr (something a lvl 40 player could already do in Andorhal) and immobilize a bunch of Forsaken soldiers.

Do you realize you're essentially arguing it's bad writing that Horde and Alliance don't have God-level individuals? Having Jaina sweep in with her floating galleon of magical cannons was cringe enough, I don't want anything like that soiling Warcraft ever again. Vindicaar doing the same would've been acceptable, as it was well-established just the prior patch. It would've also been something the Horde knew was at Alliance's disposal and therefore they could've prepared for it. If it had been at Lordaeron and crippled there its absence in the rest of the war would've been explained with that. It would've also been a clear show of how mighty Azerite was, where as now it amounted to little more than frizzle frazzle in otherwise conventional weapons. Such a missed opportunity...

Since he's no longer affiliated with Blizzard, I'll take what he wrote with a grain of salt.

Just like I take everything Metzen wrote with a grain of salt. Just like I no longer think there's only one Legion for all timelines, because Blizzard distanced themselves completely from Afrasiabi (the one who said that).

I mean, that's your prerogative, but doing so makes your stance no different to headcanon. If they added to the lore while they were officially in a position to do so their departure doesn't negate it. Blizzard's current contributors can declare their work non-canon if they want, but they haven't done so yet.

[Darth-Piekus]

I am not sure how this turned to Tyralyon vs Alleria Death Battle but I have to agree with Varodoc here. 1on1 if Tyralyon and Alleria use their full power and considering their best feats Alleria is too much for Tyralyon.

On the note of who will be the next Warmonger why would they even fight or turn mad? At this point the Horde has done so much that the Alliance might decide to dismantle them to put an end to that circle. As I said Anduin might come back a scarred person. The same scenario from the Alternative Draenor could happen but in the place of Yrel we have Tyralyon who as a High Commander of the Alliance with the backing of the rest starts a crusade to make the Horde see the light as Sartorius from Yugioh GX would say.

[Varodoc]

I am not sure how this turned to Tyralyon vs Alleria Death Battle but I have to agree with Varodoc here. 1on1 if Tyralyon and Alleria use their full power and considering their best feats Alleria is too much for Tyralyon.

On the note of who will be the next Warmonger why would they even fight or turn mad? At this point the Horde has done so much that the Alliance might decide to dismantle them to put an end to that circle. As I said Anduin might come back a scarred person. The same scenario from the Alternative Draenor could happen but in the place of Yrel we have Tyralyon who as a High Commander of the Alliance with the backing of the rest starts a crusade to make the Horde see the light as Sartorius from Yugioh GX would say.

People here said Turalyon should be the """"next warmonger"""" (this almost sounds like a buzzword).

Then someone said "No actually, between Turalyon and his wife, his wife is crazier so she should die".

Then other people started saying "Well true if she goes crazy Turalyon can just put her down".

At which point I jumped into the conversation and said that:

1) Alleria isn't crazy and not more likely to become a warmonger than Turalyon is;

2) Turalyon is not killing Alleria ever unless he catches her off-guard ala Jon Snow with Daenerys.

And just thinking of Game of Thrones has now ruined my day, but oh well, people started saying that since Danuser allegedly liked Season 8, that means Turalyon will kill Alleria. Because that makes sense

My stance on the subject is clear, I'm of the idea that no one in the Alliance should become the next "warmonger", because they all have more than legitimate reasons to distrust the Horde. I actually think Princess Talanji might be the most dangerous individual at the moment. She's young and fierce and she made deals with dangerous creatures.

I really don't know why people here want Alliance characters to die so badly. If an Alliance character has to die why not the Panda leader or Mekkatorque, no one cares about them. Alleria and Turalyon are the two most interesting leaders of the Alliance at the moment, they must absolutely stay alive.

[Darth-Piekus]

I don't see why they would kill these legendary heroes from Warcraft 2 without making them do something first. At the moment they haven't done anything significant.

[VladlTutushkin]

Forgot about that. Although Alleria didn't do anything with it in that occasion, as Vereesa managed to snap both her and Sylv out of it by making it all about herself. Rant time: I mean really, consider all that both Sylv and Alleria have gone through and boohoo, would someone give attention to poor little Vereesa who's been so ronery in Dalaran without her sisters. /rant

Do you realize you're essentially arguing it's bad writing that Horde and Alliance don't have God-level individuals? Having Jaina sweep in with her floating galleon of magical cannons was cringe enough, I don't want anything like that soiling Warcraft ever again. Vindicaar doing the same would've been acceptable, as it was well-established just the prior patch. It would've also been something the Horde knew was at Alliance's disposal and therefore they could've prepared for it. If it had been at Lordaeron and crippled there its absence in the rest of the war would've been explained with that. It would've also been a clear show of how mighty Azerite was, where as now it amounted to little more than frizzle frazzle in otherwise conventional weapons. Such a missed opportunity...

I mean, that's your prerogative, but doing so makes your stance no different to headcanon. If they added to the lore while they were officially in a position to do so their departure doesn't negate it. Blizzard's current contributors can declare their work non-canon if they want, but they haven't done so yet.

I mean, Sylvanas basically revoked her right for pity or mercy with decades of brutal experiments on humans and chemical warfare, torture , etc.

Great shame she will survive ONLY because of said pity and mercy, in Shadowlands.

[Sorrowseer]

Whats a warmonger? Why you making it out to be a thing? Its not fetch