Page 23 of 23 FirstFirst ...
13
21
22
23
  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    ...No, the Horde is the successor to several purely genocide-aimed groups such as the demonic first horde, the scourge, the troll empires (i mean they were not just reprehensible, barbaric and vile, they were also quite genocidal themselves, in addition to being "Icky and gross").
    So rather it's one group of retaliating genociders versus a group of initial genociders who are now also retaliating genociders.
    Then I can just point to the Vrykul, Eredar & ...Trolls again: All elves used to be Trolls.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Then I can just point to the Vrykul, Eredar & ...Trolls again: All elves used to be Trolls.
    The vrykul were hardly genocidal, unless you consider the old gods and their spawn a race (i mean they aren't even mortal, hell it's hardly clear that they're even individually sentient or that they're no more than extensions of the old gods themselves, a sort of weird old-god-hair).
    And there's the additional issues that humans are not vrykul just like elves are not trolls, whereas trolls are still trolls, orcs still orcs and the undead are still literally the same undead. Even the draenei are physically changed from their eredar forms (or rather: The demonic eredar and the draenei both diverged from the baseline), though i'll grant you it's not as drastic or complete as the troll-to-elf or vrykul-to-human change.

    So your reasoning is more than a little bit crooked here.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    So your reasoning is more than a little bit crooked here.
    The lines you're drawing is subjective at best, revisionist at worst. The Orcs were only "genocidal' for a short generation when Kil'jaeden decided to manipulate them. & you're talking about cultural norms of non-playable clans of Troll. The Darkspear are remnants of Dark Trolls that were displaced & forced to live on Islands.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    The lines you're drawing is subjective at best, revisionist at worst. The Orcs were only "genocidal' for a short generation when Kil'jaeden decided to manipulate them. & you're talking about cultural norms of non-playable clans of Troll. The Darkspear are remnants of Dark Trolls that were displaced & forced to live on Islands.
    "Revisionist"

    Literally says the Alliance "hates" the Horde just because they're ugly and not because of 20 years of atrocities and bloodshed

    Honestly after I read what you and the rest of the Horde fanbase say, I smile whenever I think of MoP and BfA, and I sincerely hope they don't stop villain-batting the Horde.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2021-11-03 at 11:05 AM.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    The lines you're drawing is subjective at best, revisionist at worst. The Orcs were only "genocidal' for a short generation when Kil'jaeden decided to manipulate them. & you're talking about cultural norms of non-playable clans of Troll. The Darkspear are remnants of Dark Trolls that were displaced & forced to live on Islands.
    Dark spear originated from jungle trolls, forced out of Stranglethorn by the Gurubashi and other jungle tribes. Despite the name, they have no connection to the dark trolls. Though more to your point, they were willing to commit treason by associating with the Alliance during a time of war in order to stop the other troll tribes, so blaming them for the actions of the Zandalari, Gurubashi, and Amani seems quite silly. That allied race, though...the Zandalari are another matter altogether.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    "Revisionist"

    Literally says the Alliance "hates" the Horde just because they're ugly and not because of 20 years of atrocities and bloodshed

    Honestly after I read what you and the rest of the Horde fanbase say, I smile whenever I think of MoP and BfA, and I sincerely hope they don't stop villain-batting the Horde.
    So you WANT the horde to repeatedly genocide another alliance race or destroy a city and get away with it scot-free? I thought you were a hard-core alliance fan.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungho View Post
    So you WANT the horde to repeatedly genocide another alliance race or destroy a city and get away with it scot-free? I thought you were a hard-core alliance fan.
    I'm afraid you misunderstood, or by "get away with it scot-free" do you mean "literally breaking apart from the inside, having your capital besieged, and being forced to feel guilt and shame and change your government type completely"?

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I'm afraid you misunderstood, or by "get away with it scot-free" do you mean "literally breaking apart from the inside, having your capital besieged, and being forced to feel guilt and shame and change your government type completely"?
    Getting away with it scot-free means having your capital besieged, being forced to feel guilt and shame and change your government type complete, only to do the exact same thing again with even fewer consequences and more participation from the other leaders.

    It's scot-free when the consequences aren't heavy enough to prevent it from happening again.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Getting away with it scot-free means having your capital besieged, being forced to feel guilt and shame and change your government type complete, only to do the exact same thing again with even fewer consequences and more participation from the other leaders.

    It's scot-free when the consequences aren't heavy enough to prevent it from happening again.
    The consequences are heavy now.

    Not only the Horde is completely reshaped now, being led by a Council instead of one individual (with all the internal divisions and doubts that might cause), but they must also pay heavy compensations to the Alliance, as Canonically detailed in Shadows Rising.

    Since the Council is de-facto led by Alliance Sympathizer Baine, anyone who wishes to wage war on the Alliance once again will be forced to do so without the support of the other members of the Council, how unfortunate for the psychos in the Horde

  10. #450
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    18,594
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    but they must also pay heavy compensations to the Alliance, as Canonically detailed in Shadows Rising.
    I don’t remember this what compensations are mentioned?

    The only thing that kinda comes to mind is thrall saying they will kill sylvanas.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The consequences are heavy now.

    Not only the Horde is completely reshaped now, being led by a Council instead of one individual (with all the internal divisions and doubts that might cause), but they must also pay heavy compensations to the Alliance, as Canonically detailed in Shadows Rising.

    Since the Council is de-facto led by Alliance Sympathizer Baine, anyone who wishes to wage war on the Alliance once again will be forced to do so without the support of the other members of the Council, how unfortunate for the psychos in the Horde
    Baine is in the Shadowlands now, so the council is lead by those with a serious grudge against the alliance: Gey'arah and Tanlanji. They're going to start the next war, this is what Blizzard has decided is the story of Warcraft: Horde attacks Alliance, splinter group in Horde joins Alliance to defeat 'bad' part of the Horde, everything's hunky-dory until they next need the Horde to start a war. Rinse and repeat.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungho View Post
    Baine is in the Shadowlands now, so the council is lead by those with a serious grudge against the alliance: Gey'arah and Tanlanji. They're going to start the next war, this is what Blizzard has decided is the story of Warcraft: Horde attacks Alliance, splinter group in Horde joins Alliance to defeat 'bad' part of the Horde, everything's hunky-dory until they next need the Horde to start a war. Rinse and repeat.
    Talanji dropped her [wrong and misplaced] grudge in Shadows Rising.

    Geya'rah lacks the manpower to do anything even though she's a nutjob like her idol.

  13. #453
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    18,594
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Talanji dropped her [wrong and misplaced] grudge in Shadows Rising.
    She doesn’t drop it she just puts it aside because thrall and co say she has to stop pushing for instant responses to join the horde she still ends the books thinking there is a debt to be repaid.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •