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  1. #101
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    good point....

    *goes off to write Theron getting cockblocked by Talanji/Anduin/Calia*

    Good motivation to torch the world.
    Blue balls is a serious thing....serious enough to burn the world.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The House of Nobles as an institution holds great authority in Stormwind and they give their full support to Regent Turalyon. We also know that Anduin has been changed greatly by Satan's energy (which any living creature absolutely despises). I don't think he's going back on the throne of Stormwind for quite some time.

    Turalyon is now pretty much the most influential leader on Azeroth. He is the REGENT OF STORMWIND (strongest kingdom on Azeroth), SUPREME COMMANDER OF THE ALLIANCE (strongest mortal faction on Azeroth), and LEADER OF THE ARMY OF THE LIGHT (intergalactic army of Light warriors). He's going to play a major role for sure. As an ally or as an enemy of Azeroth? As an ally, he'll be the first line of defense against a potential Lightbound invasion from the Dark Portal...
    What if he thinks that Azeroth would be better off without the Horde? Or if the Horde embraced the light properly? HE is currently the single most powerful man, in the Aliance and given the portfolio we got of AotL and the man himself he is willing to push it pretty far. Certainly far enough for some other characters to take exception to it. He'd make for a great harbinger to the true Army of the Light trying to enlighten people, who just refuse to see the light, the better path. The only path. The kind of character the Aliance could get behind and the Horde could oppose, whilst allowing nuance between him and characters like Velen, Anduin, even Aleria and so forth ideologically.

  3. #103
    Oh wow... yeah, so sad we didn't get the same plot points repeated ad nauseum rendering all actions pointless and rousing up the player base into more hatred and flaming. What a shame. I was looking forward to some more pointless faction war none can win.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-10-22 at 12:51 AM.

  4. #104
    At this point it doesn’t matter story wise. Do what they want, story is messed up too much. After the Legion, Arthas, the Iron Horde, the Legion, the Old Gods, and now the Jailor, if the Alliance and Horde continue to go to war with each other they both deserve to get wiped out.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Isn't he currently balls deep in Thalyssra?
    Maybe they'll have a nasty break-up, and that sends him off the rails...

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    What if he thinks that Azeroth would be better off without the Horde? Or if the Horde embraced the light properly? HE is currently the single most powerful man, in the Aliance and given the portfolio we got of AotL and the man himself he is willing to push it pretty far. Certainly far enough for some other characters to take exception to it. He'd make for a great harbinger to the true Army of the Light trying to enlighten people, who just refuse to see the light, the better path. The only path. The kind of character the Aliance could get behind and the Horde could oppose, whilst allowing nuance between him and characters like Velen, Anduin, even Aleria and so forth ideologically.
    This is not who Turalyon is.

    Turalyon is a man who was willing to work with the Illidari after their leader destroyed Xe'ra the Prime Naaru. Turalyon saw this and he still chose to put aside his differences and work together with the Illidari demons.

    Turalyon is a man with a great sense of justice and strong faith in the Light; but he is not a zealot. He doesn't let his faith blind him. If he did, he would have refused to fight side by side with the Illidari. He's not Yrel.

    And to be fair even Yrel doesn't want to remove (as in wipe out) the orcs, she wants to indoctrinate and bring them into the Light, because she was given visions by the Prime Naaru about the Light cleansing the Cosmos.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    This is not who Turalyon is.

    Turalyon is a man who was willing to work with the Illidari after their leader destroyed Xe'ra the Prime Naaru. Turalyon saw this and he still chose to put aside his differences and work together with the Illidari demons.

    Turalyon is a man with a great sense of justice and strong faith in the Light; but he is not a zealot. He doesn't let his faith blind him. If he did, he would have refused to fight side by side with the Illidari. He's not Yrel.

    And to be fair even Yrel doesn't want to remove (as in wipe out) the orcs, she wants to indoctrinate and bring them into the Light, because she was given visions by the Prime Naaru about the Light cleansing the Cosmos.
    He has no love for the Horde races and is militant enough to do something about it, when there isn't the literal apocalypse. (more reasonable than Greymane ;P ) Not to mention that the cinematic specifically showed the light fading from his eyes, upon Xe'ra's destruction and he was more than happy to keep Aleria locked in the brig, when Xe'ra told him to beforehand. (Not to mention he was up for torture both before and way after joining the AtoL, if he thought it could get him something)

    He certainly is a well meaning man, with strong devotion to the light, which can and has been exploited in the past. I actually think that a story, where characters just genuinely want the best for their factions, without some insidious big bad having them secretly undermine the faction would be refreshing. Turalyon is a kind of a natural fit for that, because he is not a pacifist like Velen or Anduin, but he also has personal investment in both army of the light and Azeroth.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    He has no love for the Horde races and is militant enough to do something about it, when there isn't the literal apocalypse. (more reasonable than Greymane ;P ) Not to mention that the cinematic specifically showed the light fading from his eyes, upon Xe'ra's destruction and he was more than happy to keep Aleria locked in the brig, when Xe'ra told him to beforehand. (Not to mention he was up for torture both before and way after joining the AtoL, if he thought it could get him something)

    He certainly is a well meaning man, with strong devotion to the light, which can and has been exploited in the past. I actually think that a story, where characters just genuinely want the best for their factions, without some insidious big bad having them secretly undermine the faction would be refreshing. Turalyon is a kind of a natural fit for that, because he is not a pacifist like Velen or Anduin, but he also has personal investment in both army of the light and Azeroth.
    Turalyon begged Alleria to leave because he knew Xe'ra would imprison her, Alleria decided to stay and was imprisoned. Even then Turalyon still begged Xe'ra to show mercy.

    Jaina was also willing to torture and slaughter people ruthlessly if it got her what she wanted, she didn't go down as a warmonger.

    At this point the entire Alliance and half the Horde should have no love for the Horde races so that's not exclusive to Turalyon and doesn't make him look bad.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    What if he thinks that Azeroth would be better off without the Horde?
    Then he will be:
    1) Deemed crazy
    2) Villain batted, either
    2a) leaving the Alliance to lead a cult against the Horde
    2b) planning 2a until we go beat "sense" back into him
    3) Lobotomized into mumbling "not all orcs" and drooling on himself
    4) All of the above

    "Victims should not seek justice." has been THE message to the Alliance for nearly thirty real world years.

  10. #110
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    The next warmonger will obviously be from Red Team, because Blue one is of course a collection of unassailable saints that can do no wrong. So let us make a quick recapitulation:

    • Orcs have been pretty much demolished from MoP onwards, to the point that not a single named Orc remains aside from Thrall, and maybe Eitrigg. I will go on a limb and assume that these two are safe from the villain bat.
    • the Forsaken are led by the frontwoman of Anduin's BFF, so they're safe for the time being.
    • Goblins are just a joke. Raiding one of Gallywix's brothels sounds funny af, and given how terrible the current writers are at humour (among many other things), I don't see this happening anytime soon.
    • Tauren are led by the biggest Alliance sycophant Azeroth has ever known Heart of the Horde™, so they're safe.
    • Belfs. Here there might be something. They haven't done a lot since BC, which might imply a lot of Story Focus™, which we know how it usually ends. There are several important names among them, so you have several possible raid bosses. More importantly, Bob has been sitting on his ass for far too long, and the Horde can't have that aside from Alliance (especially Human) genitalia-craving Thrall. However, we've had 2 expansions in a row with an elven baddie (3 if you count Elisande in Legion), so... Still, the villain bat is certainly lurking nearby.
    • Trolls, i.e. Rokhan/Talanji, especially the latter. Imagine having a legit reason to be upset at the Alliance and not being depicted as a raging moron, we can't have that in Warcraft, can we? Furthermore, troll dungeons/raids are a staple of WoW, so maybe we'll be soon raiding the Echo Isles or something. Maybe ZG 3.0 too?
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  11. #111
    Yeah it makes no sense for Turalyon to be a "warmonger". We know that Turalyon doesn't seek war with the Horde, he simply wants to rebuild the Alliance after the disaster that was the Fourth War (started by the Horde).

    I can't think of anyone else in the Alliance who would want to start a war, so if there's another one, that too will likely be started by the Horde, by Princess Talanji.

  12. #112
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    @sighy Imagine any Alliance character doing anything less than pure and heroic (or even misguided), and having to go through the consequences of his/her actions. Morally grey world and what not
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The next warmonger will obviously be from Red Team, because Blue one is of course a collection of unassailable saints that can do no wrong. So let us make a quick recapitulation:
    Trolls, i.e. Rokhan/Talanji, especially the latter. Imagine having a legit reason to be upset at the Alliance and not being depicted as a raging moron, we can't have that in Warcraft, can we? Furthermore, troll dungeons/raids are a staple of WoW, so maybe we'll be soon raiding the Echo Isles or something. Maybe ZG 3.0 too?
    Given the recent track record it will go about like this "Talanji forgives Jaina and the Aliance entirely seeing that her father in fact needed to die, but then she attacks them anyway because she actually secretly works with Hakkar, for no fucking reason that's never going to be explained, until a novel comes out!"... worked well enough for Sylvanas, right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    @sighy Imagine any Alliance character doing anything less than pure and heroic (or even misguided), and having to go through the consequences of his/her actions. Morally grey world and what not
    Hasn't really been a thing since the anime protagonist... erm i mean Varian returned. There was loads of good stories, with Mistmantles and Prestors being noteworthy highlights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Then he will be:
    1) Deemed crazy
    2) Villain batted, either
    2a) leaving the Alliance to lead a cult against the Horde
    2b) planning 2a until we go beat "sense" back into him
    3) Lobotomized into mumbling "not all orcs" and drooling on himself
    4) All of the above

    "Victims should not seek justice." has been THE message to the Alliance for nearly thirty real world years.
    There is a notable difference between petty disputes(between normal people) and political disputes. That said i don't suppose Aliance fanbase would much appreciate the formula of shock factor city boom > proceed to see Blizz pull every possible emotional blackmail imaginable > surprise leader turning on everyone only so they can eat all the blame routine either...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Yeah it makes no sense for Turalyon to be a "warmonger". We know that Turalyon doesn't seek war with the Horde, he simply wants to rebuild the Alliance after the disaster that was the Fourth War (started by the Horde).

    I can't think of anyone else in the Alliance who would want to start a war, so if there's another one, that too will likely be started by the Horde, by Princess Talanji.
    He spoke about reclaiming old Aliance holdings, which is inevitably going to lead into conflict with the people who are in the way. Even if it's just border skirmishes and such. Personally i would prefer an ideologically driven conflict rather than it being a single character going like "Oh, damn. It's asshole o-clock. I need to get my mustache and box of puppies for my fireplace.".

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    He spoke about reclaiming old Aliance holdings, which is inevitably going to lead into conflict with the people who are in the way. Even if it's just border skirmishes and such. Personally i would prefer an ideologically driven conflict rather than it being a single character going like "Oh, damn. It's asshole o-clock. I need to get my mustache and box of puppies for my fireplace.".
    No one has an issue with a cold war but that is not what OP is proposing, they are proposing an actual "Fifth War", which wouldn't make sense. Why exactly would Turalyon start another world war when he wants to rebuild the Alliance after the last world war? The most likely outcome are border skirmishes over what is left of Old Lordaeron, with no real war. Like in Vanilla.

  15. #115
    The player, the single most highest kill count of any sadistic being in all of Azeroth.

  16. #116
    Feels like Turalyon and Yrel are being set up, with Alliance taking blame and Greymane possibly participating after no resolution to his revenge.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    No one has an issue with a cold war but that is not what OP is proposing, they are proposing an actual "Fifth War", which wouldn't make sense. Why exactly would Turalyon start another world war when he wants to rebuild the Alliance after the last world war? The most likely outcome are border skirmishes over what is left of Old Lordaeron, with no real war. Like in Vanilla.
    The only way i see another total war happening right away is time skip, with the "What the hell happened" adventure hook.

  18. #118
    Despite all the flaws BfA had, it cannot be denied that the Fourth War was massive in size. Teldrassil and Undercity destroyed, did people forget that Teldrassil was an ENTIRE KINGDOM? Not just one city, that was Darnassus. Teldrassil had the capital, several villages, many shrines, etc.

    Point is, I can't imagine how a Fifth War could possibly surpass the Fourth War in tension and stakes. The Ren'dorei and the Lightforged Vindicaar would have to be involved a lot, as well as the Gallywix Cannon (which was speculated to be used in the Fourth War, but in the end was never fired).

  19. #119
    I'm hoping for a zealot Turalyon & Yrel going down the scarlet path, perhaps with some behind the scenes dreadlording.

  20. #120
    Mechagnome Archmage Xaxxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    No one has an issue with a cold war but that is not what OP is proposing, they are proposing an actual "Fifth War",
    I'd have used the term Fifth War if that's what I was proposing. Really what I mean is even without proper War taking place, the franchise needs characters who actually want War.

    Someone on the side to bubble up the tensions and keep things feeling somewhat akin to IRL Human History, where we were notoriously shitty to certain others for thousands of years.

    On the note of Turalyon and Danath specifically, I'd prefer if they started small scale and then the masses fighting their battles are the ones who build resentment for the faction they're warring against. Have the named characters hand the soldiers the torch, but let the soldiers set the fires.


    Let the Humans be racist, and let the Horde respond in a justified, nasty way, that basically justifies the Alliance's pitch to keep retaliating.
    Don't clip either team's wings.


    Characters like Jaina and Anduin becoming the standard for what Humans are in Warcraft is killing their intended role within the story.

    There's nothing special about these two peace-striving characters if every Human is just a peach now. They used to be the outliers in a very hateful landscape.
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