Who should be the next Warmonger?

[Ardenaso]

just make it so Turalyon sanctions the Argent Lordaeronians for their inaction and decides to invade them, and make the Horde interfere

[VladlTutushkin]

It can vary. I could see them making basic skeleton constructs or something even without the Valkyr. None the less they'd be a major asset even just in the backline having bodies brought to them or smth.

They did a lot of damage to the player faction of that race, yes. That's not even nearly all of them however and Maiev for example fighting for Tyrande makes no sense given their relationship anyway. I'm not sure what you expected the "payback" would look like, because it was obvious from the get go that Tyrande is never getting the kill on Sylvanas, because besides Thrall she is the last Horde character with any name value. Nobody is gonna be interested in buying a game with the likes of Baine on the cover. Should it have been better than running around aimlessly in Thorgast, before losing powers randomly, because the team couldn't be arsed to give them a proper payoff fight? Sure. On the bright side Night Elves don't have a Calia, in their future...


PS: I'm just gonna say for the Horde perspective of events in BfA. There was no agency to be had, you were an onlooker, with a never ending slew of having to watch characters like Baine and Saurfang ceaselessly bitching and whining. And then, when Baine finally gets what's coming to him the characters present are like "Woe is me! How dare she do the single most justified action in the last 10 fucking years?"... cringe at best, absolutely insufferable at worst. So it Boiled down to Horde vs Horde, with Aliance in the backdrop, because we can't have Anduin do anything even slightly incriminating and everyone who disagrees with him either sees the error of their ways or is an insane villain.

If they wanted to “keep” Sylvanas they shouldnt have used her the way they did in BfA. Because they are not going to retain or gain any Alliance players if she sticks around after Shadowlands. You may “enjoy” the game… with only horde playerbase remaining.

At least retaking Ashenvale and doing some permanent damage to Sylvanas would have being a great start. But Blizz couldnt even do that much.

And we DO have Calia. Its Shandris actually, if you paid attention to her plot. Also night elves were defanged and neutered since Cata, so essentially they were already going through the same thing forsaken fans shitting their pants thinking about Calia.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

I think Garabage Snailscreen should invade the alliance over mining rights in Alterac.

[Varodoc]

just make it so Turalyon sanctions the Argent Lordaeronians for their inaction and decides to invade them, and make the Horde interfere

Turalyon is the most famous paladin in the history of Azeroth, if anything those peasants would join him willingly.

[sighy]

If they wanted to “keep” Sylvanas they shouldnt have used her the way they did in BfA. Because they are not going to retain or gain any Alliance players if she sticks around after Shadowlands. You may “enjoy” the game… with only horde playerbase remaining.

At least retaking Ashenvale and doing some permanent damage to Sylvanas would have being a great start. But Blizz couldnt even do that much.

And we DO have Calia. Its Shandris actually, if you paid attention to her plot. Also night elves were defanged and neutered since Cata, so essentially they were already going through the same thing forsaken fans shitting their pants thinking about Calia.

She will likely have some time away from the spotlight, but expecting her death... not exactly realistic. Just like we knew that Malfurion is never gonna get anything more than saying "ouch", Jaina won't have even a scratch on her from the raid encounter, MEkkatorque will have some BS fakeout, etc. I agree that demonising Sylvanas like that in BfA was stupid, but it's just something we'll have to live with, as the last turd Afrasiabi left for the playerbase.

Ashenvale will be retaken off screen, as it always is lol

I think the Shandris angle of "Revenge is fine, but i don't want my mother to die!" actually pretty good. She isn't even breaking several established concepts and rules of the universe by existing

[VladlTutushkin]

She will likely have some time away from the spotlight, but expecting her death... not exactly realistic. Just like we knew that Malfurion is never gonna get anything more than saying "ouch", Jaina won't have even a scratch on her from the raid encounter, MEkkatorque will have some BS fakeout, etc. I agree that demonising Sylvanas like that in BfA was stupid, but it's just something we'll have to live with, as the last turd Afrasiabi left for the playerbase.

Ashenvale will be retaken off screen, as it always is lol

I think the Shandris angle of "Revenge is fine, but i don't want my mother to die!" actually pretty good. She isn't even breaking several established concepts and rules of the universe by existing

And as i said - if she returns in any way, shape or form Alliance fanbase will keep evaporating like water in Sahara desert.

Or she may return in her “good” form, basically a different character , which will cause all her “fans” to hate her.

Shandris (and now Tyrande) never wanted vengeance. She is basically the “anything in the name of peace” type that is ready to suck human cock and live on the farm in Stormwind if it keeps “the peace”.

[Strawberry]

I'd love if there's a spark between humans and trolls, or orcs. I'm oldschool but humans and orcs has been done too many times, I'd prefer if the major conflict was between say Genn and Talanji. Both seem very hot-headed.
Humans starting some shit now with Atha... I mean Anduin's future being uncertain would make me come back for the lore.

[Mungho]

Turalyon is the most famous paladin in the history of Azeroth, if anything those peasants would join him willingly.

There are horde races among the Argents.

[Varodoc]

There are horde races among the Argents.

Not in any leadership position. The main leader of the Argent Crusade is the human Lord Maxwell Tyrosus. The Silver Hand, the other very influential Paladin order in the Plaguelands, already rejoined the Alliance and was led by Turalyon at the Battle of Stromgarde.

[sighy]

And as i said - if she returns in any way, shape or form Alliance fanbase will keep evaporating like water in Sahara desert.

Or she may return in her “good” form, basically a different character , which will cause all her “fans” to hate her.

Shandris (and now Tyrande) never wanted vengeance. She is basically the “anything in the name of peace” type that is ready to suck human cock and live on the farm in Stormwind if it keeps “the peace”.

I sincerely doubt that people are sticking around on the Aliance side, for the story xD There hasn't been much of anything worthwhile since anime protagonist... erm Varian came along. With Anduin it went from bad to worse, because they purged all the characters heavenly saints could play off one way or another. MoP was passable, but that was largely because they were played to mirror and contrast the Horde side shitshow.

Remains to be seen what happens. There are still ways to salvage it now, but who knows what they have planned?

Shandris cares more about Tyrande not comitting suicide than getting one back on the Horde, which is something i can respect. Could have made the feud more personal if she had the place of Delaryn dead on arrival Summermoon, who got introduced to go through the motions instead of her. Exploring the conflict with Elune abandoning them and such more in depth could have served up some good story too. She is nowhere near Baine levels, at the very least. (And she is not a contradiction of the NE identity either)

[VladlTutushkin]

I sincerely doubt that people are sticking around on the Aliance side, for the story xD There hasn't been much of anything worthwhile since anime protagonist... erm Varian came along. With Anduin it went from bad to worse, because they purged all the characters heavenly saints could play off one way or another. MoP was passable, but that was largely because they were played to mirror and contrast the Horde side shitshow.

Remains to be seen what happens. There are still ways to salvage it now, but who knows what they have planned?

Shandris cares more about Tyrande not comitting suicide than getting one back on the Horde, which is something i can respect. Could have made the feud more personal if she had the place of Delaryn dead on arrival Summermoon, who got introduced to go through the motions instead of her. Exploring the conflict with Elune abandoning them and such more in depth could have served up some good story too. She is nowhere near Baine levels, at the very least. (And she is not a contradiction of the NE identity either)

Night elf race as the whole was done worse then Baine. Their religion is moronic now but they do not even rebel against it, there is no movement against Elune amongst the night elves.

Their legacy is tarnished and best parts of it carted over to the horde via Nightborne.

Their military capabilities were reduced to the level of "you just cant win, dont try, never". And they became a local Italy/France war memes.

They would be better off dead then what they are now, nothing can fix them.

[sighy]

Night elf race as the whole was done worse then Baine. Their religion is moronic now but they do not even rebel against it, there is no movement against Elune amongst the night elves.

Their legacy is tarnished and best parts of it carted over to the horde via Nightborne.

Their military capabilities were reduced to the level of "you just cant win, dont try, never". And they became a local Italy/France war memes.

They would be better off dead then what they are now, nothing can fix them.

The worst thing about Baine is that he goes directly counter to every other character in the Horde. He never earned anything, he never had to overcome anything, he came into power because his father died so now he is free to perpetuate a philosophy, which has nearly driven the Tauren extinct, before Cairne came along. And the worst part is that that's Baine ever was from what we've seen. In his conflict with Magatha he got bailed out by Jaina and overall has done more for the Aliance than the Horde. (How he survived the reign of 2 "tyrants" is beyond me)

The Darkshore proposition of either losing faith in Elune or doubling down hard could have served up a very interesting conflict, if Blizzard had the talent and will to really lean into it and explore it. Horde having much more "atheistic" inclinations lately between the Mag'har and such being a good vehicle for them to spitefully lash out against their former goddess, in the form of Tyrande.

The Night Elves and the highborne were very different demographics even before the War of the Ancients, with the modern NEs seeking to largely distance themselves from it under the penality of death, until Malf went 180 for no reason and was like "This is dumb, let's invite the guys we've not killed yet, in Dire Maul over". Even their design is largely tree houses or ruin dwelling and has been since basically their addition to Vanilla wow. Nightborne, while their own separate branch share much more in common with Thalassians than Tyrande&co.

Them winning alone against the full might of the Horde never even was a question. Especially when you consider that every major conflict they partook in since WotA has seen them significantly diminished. Half the reason Druids of the Flame became a thing was because they were pissed at T&M, for the losses taken in War of the Shifting Sands. Joining the Aliance just saw them ground down even farther, in global conflicts they had little to gain from. Only excursion that really made sense for them since 2004 was Gilneas, because they felt guilty about the whole Werewolf fiasco. Their whole thing is that they're not as great as they used to be back in the good old days and chose to abandon the high society stuff, in favor of attunement with nature. I used to be a big fan of Night Elves, when it was still the Warcraft 3 iteration, but it went very downhill, when Vanilla and Knaak trilogy came around, in my opinion, which soured me on them save a few and far between highlights. Aliance's narrative problem is human centric and that's been the case sicne basically Wrath, only it didn't become quite as apparent then, as it is now.


I could easily see some characters from NE ranks going down a partisan warpath, but i honestly don't see them capturing any real territory or being more than a nuisance on their own merit. The damage was already done, in the formative years and the recent developments have blown the best chance to correct the course.

[VladlTutushkin]

The worst thing about Baine is that he goes directly counter to every other character in the Horde. He never earned anything, he never had to overcome anything, he came into power because his father died so now he is free to perpetuate a philosophy, which has nearly driven the Tauren extinct, before Cairne came along. And the worst part is that that's Baine ever was from what we've seen. In his conflict with Magatha he got bailed out by Jaina and overall has done more for the Aliance than the Horde. (How he survived the reign of 2 "tyrants" is beyond me)

The Darkshore proposition of either losing faith in Elune or doubling down hard could have served up a very interesting conflict, if Blizzard had the talent and will to really lean into it and explore it. Horde having much more "atheistic" inclinations lately between the Mag'har and such being a good vehicle for them to spitefully lash out against their former goddess, in the form of Tyrande.

The Night Elves and the highborne were very different demographics even before the War of the Ancients, with the modern NEs seeking to largely distance themselves from it under the penality of death, until Malf went 180 for no reason and was like "This is dumb, let's invite the guys we've not killed yet, in Dire Maul over". Even their design is largely tree houses or ruin dwelling and has been since basically their addition to Vanilla wow. Nightborne, while their own separate branch share much more in common with Thalassians than Tyrande&co.

Them winning alone against the full might of the Horde never even was a question. Especially when you consider that every major conflict they partook in since WotA has seen them significantly diminished. Half the reason Druids of the Flame became a thing was because they were pissed at T&M, for the losses taken in War of the Shifting Sands. Joining the Aliance just saw them ground down even farther, in global conflicts they had little to gain from. Only excursion that really made sense for them since 2004 was Gilneas, because they felt guilty about the whole Werewolf fiasco. Their whole thing is that they're not as great as they used to be back in the good old days and chose to abandon the high society stuff, in favor of attunement with nature. I used to be a big fan of Night Elves, when it was still the Warcraft 3 iteration, but it went very downhill, when Vanilla and Knaak trilogy came around, in my opinion, which soured me on them save a few and far between highlights. Aliance's narrative problem is human centric and that's been the case sicne basically Wrath, only it didn't become quite as apparent then, as it is now.


I could easily see some characters from NE ranks going down a partisan warpath, but i honestly don't see them capturing any real territory or being more than a nuisance on their own merit. The damage was already done, in the formative years and the recent developments have blown the best chance to correct the course.

I will just answer that with - orcs population was three ships of refugees. Trolls were one weak tribe from Stranglethorn. Forsaken were some nerfed ex-Scourge corpses hiding in human ruins. Blood elves lost 90% of their race to Arthas.

And so on.

Sole reason night elves dont get anything good , dont take back their land or dont win is ONLY due to Blizz lack of will to write them as anything but losers. No other race was ever stopped by being few in numbers or otherwise reduced.

[Mehrunes]

It can vary. I could see them making basic skeleton constructs or something even without the Valkyr. None the less they'd be a major asset even just in the backline having bodies brought to them or smth.

Actually, the Forsaken had the capacity to resurrect people even before Val'kyr, vide Renee Lauer. The Val'kyr were just capable of doing so on a massive scale.

[Directionalk9]

There are some obvious candidates, and there are good candidates, but the real answer is... Aysa Cloudsinger.

[Mungho]

Not in any leadership position. The main leader of the Argent Crusade is the human Lord Maxwell Tyrosus. The Silver Hand, the other very influential Paladin order in the Plaguelands, already rejoined the Alliance and was led by Turalyon at the Battle of Stromgarde.

Yes, but you said the peasants would jump at the chance. Horde races in the Argent might not be keen on joining the Alliance. But with the way the Horde is, the Alliance could offer them a better quality of life.

[Varodoc]

Yes, but you said the peasants would jump at the chance. Horde races in the Argent might not be keen on joining the Alliance. But with the way the Horde is, the Alliance could offer them a better quality of life.

Horde races seem to be thrilled at the prospect of joining the Alliance, just ask the Sin'dorei and Baine's people.

[Ardenaso]

Turalyon is the most famous paladin in the history of Azeroth, if anything those peasants would join him willingly.

I'd wager at least a large amount of them would rather not cast aside their brethren in the Forsaken, and/or forgo their non-aggression state with the Blood Elves considering they were allies back when they were all part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, and the Blood Elves seemed to be willing to not sanction them considering that they're the closest descendants of Garithos' New Alliance Remnants

[Maell]

Hogger all the way!

[Varodoc]

I'd wager at least a large amount of them would rather not cast aside their brethren in the Forsaken, and/or forgo their non-aggression state with the Blood Elves considering they were allies back when they were all part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, and the Blood Elves seemed to be willing to not sanction them considering that they're the closest descendants of Garithos' New Alliance Remnants

Then they can leave the order. If a Forsaken is part of the Argent Crusade he has already forsaken his original allegiances anyway. Isn't there an ex-Forsaken in the Crusade who even denounced Sylvanas as a tyrant?