Who should be the next Warmonger?

[Ersula]

Forsaken are not nearly as cucked as night elves at the moment.

It feels like people are associating story-focus with being 'cucked'? The whole Elune stuff is so much focus on the Night Elves, the forsaken haven't even been mentioned this expansion. There was even Liliana dialog in the earliest Alpha but she got cut entirely from the expansion.

[Feanoro]

Bolvar (former de-facto leader of the Alliance in Vanilla)

You misspelled Magni Bronzebeard.

Back in vanilla (as opposed to Classic), Ironforge was treated as the capital, both by players and developers. Players congregated there as it was a great hub for all the Blackrock Mountain raids, center of the continent, and near Menethil Harbor. Developers put almost all major events there, including holidays like Winter Veil. The only thing Stormwind had was the Onyxia/Nefarian buffs. It was much better when Dwarves were running the show; humans took over in TBC and everything went downhill for Alliance since.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There is some room for speculation there, as it's not clearly stated, but from what i recall the sequence of events was gathering drifts toward Stromgarde > Sylvanas blows the Horn> the rider comes to tell Sylvanas about Calia > book cuts right away to her having sent the Dark Rangers and the gathering spotting them.

Ya that’s how I remember it to. All we really know for certain is that she went from “what to do about the happy ones” to “screw it kill them all” some where inbetween.

[VladlTutushkin]

It feels like people are associating story-focus with being 'cucked'? The whole Elune stuff is so much focus on the Night Elves, the forsaken haven't even been mentioned this expansion. There was even Liliana dialog in the earliest Alpha but she got cut entirely from the expansion.

Are you kidding me? Its the same as saying that being kicked in the nuts is "attention" and having your car tires slashed is "fame". Well sure you kinda getting attention and someone goes to a great length to show it, but its not good attention , right? You'd rather have no attention at all and have your car intact and nuts not cracked.

Its same as dwarves - they get almost no attention so they get the least amount of bullshit happening to them.

Forsaken not being mentioned also "cements" them where they left, basically the Horde's top dog, currently not in ruling position but still undoubtedly greatest military power on Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. Anywhere where they deploy anyway. While night elves are exact opposite, reduced to a meme race below gnomes and something along the lines of Italy in WW2 in terms of military prowess.

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Ya that’s how I remember it to. All we really know for certain is that she went from “what to do about the happy ones” to “screw it kill them all” some where inbetween.

Most of them were coming back, what was the reason to shoot them i dont even understand. Hell, even detaining those from the Gathering who came back and putting them in prison or questioning them with applied torture would have being better then outright massacring.

[Triceron]

Most of them were coming back, what was the reason to shoot them i dont even understand. Hell, even detaining those from the Gathering who came back and putting them in prison or questioning them with applied torture would have being better then outright massacring.

*insert 'Horde is nothing!' mustache twirling kill-everyone Sylvanas life goals that you didn't know about till end of BFA*

Gotta love how the writers plot twist the shit out of things till nothing makes sense.

[Jastall]

Look at all the Ally fans ITT wringing their hands and tearing their hair out at the mere thought of Turalyon being something more than Super Duper Good Boi #56327804

I really think it's more down to people not wanting yet another war when the last two have been unmitigated narrative disasters, and with Blizzard's writing Turalyon is going to either be a good boi or Light Hitler. I can't fault anyone for preferring he stays the former.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Most of them were coming back, what was the reason to shoot them i dont even understand. Hell, even detaining those from the Gathering who came back and putting them in prison or questioning them with applied torture would have being better then outright massacring.

not sure if it was most I want to say 7 or so of 13 were trying to leave but I don't feel like checking the book for numbers.

but no matter the number the reason to not let them come back was so they couldn't spread the idea of reunification even prison or torture wouldn't really stop that as it would give them the chance to talk to other forsaken so it really had to be death so sylvanas could keep her people thinking the only choice was conflict with the living.

[VladlTutushkin]

not sure if it was most I want to say 7 or so of 13 were trying to leave but I don't feel like checking the book for numbers.

but no matter the number the reason to not let them come back was so they couldn't spread the idea of reunification even prison or torture wouldn't really stop that as it would give them the chance to talk to other forsaken so it really had to be death so sylvanas could keep her people thinking the only choice was conflict with the living.

So... even mere thought is a crime now? In a "free" undead society? Even Stalin had people questioned and beaten up before shooting them, usually, you know? And he was like the paranoia on legs with fancy mustache.

[Aresk]

Most of them were coming back, what was the reason to shoot them i dont even understand. Hell, even detaining those from the Gathering who came back and putting them in prison or questioning them with applied torture would have being better then outright massacring.

What is your source on that? We have twelve people involved. At least five were defecting (Tomas, Parqual, and the three Felstones). We have Vellcinda standing in the middle arguing with Callia. That puts us at six of twelve already not returning when the rangers killed them (even if Elsie planned on returning, she hadn't actually done it at the time she was killed). Wilmer, the one sister, and the other unnamed members have no information about them, other than an unspecified number were heading back toward the wall (given the wording, it was likely at least three were returning, since "several" isn't often used to describe one or two people, but it could be three, four, five, or all six unspecified individuals).

As for the reason, Sylvanas gave it. She couldn't be sure if they wanted to return or if they were only being motivated by fear. I don't think that's a good reason for killing someone, but that's the reason she gave.

[Zuben]

You misspelled Magni Bronzebeard.

Back in vanilla (as opposed to Classic), Ironforge was treated as the capital, both by players and developers. Players congregated there as it was a great hub for all the Blackrock Mountain raids, center of the continent, and near Menethil Harbor. Developers put almost all major events there, including holidays like Winter Veil. The only thing Stormwind had was the Onyxia/Nefarian buffs. It was much better when Dwarves were running the show; humans took over in TBC and everything went downhill for Alliance since.

Yup. Stormwind also had Hall of Heroes (or whatever the place for PVP stuff is named), but I recall auction house was Orgrimmar/Ironforge only until they added it to all cities and that was what truly mattered besides banking services. I was still testing out both factions in 2005 before settling with the Horde come Autumn, but I can say I very much preferred Ironforge over Stormwind (and Orgrimmar) the summer I leveled a nelf rogue to 60. Menethil Harbor was also Alliance's only transit to Kalimdor, as Stormwind Harbor wasn't added until Wrath; only other option was Booty Bay - Ratchet, which meant you were in Horde lands, not that far way from Theramore, which was connected to Menethil anyway.

Nowadays it's quite outdated tbh. All the same, each expansion has featured new places to gather in, and they were very nice in Legion and BFA.

...Now that I think about it, I've never wondered why there is a human town named after human royalty in Wetlands, which is part of Khaz Modan. I should look into its history.

[AcidicSyn]

Yup. Stormwind also had Hall of Heroes (or whatever the place for PVP stuff is named), but I recall auction house was Orgrimmar/Ironforge only until they added it to all cities and that was what truly mattered besides banking services. I was still testing out both factions in 2005 before settling with the Horde come Autumn, but I can say I very much preferred Ironforge over Stormwind (and Orgrimmar) the summer I leveled a nelf rogue to 60. Menethil Harbor was also Alliance's only transit to Kalimdor, as Stormwind Harbor wasn't added until Wrath; only other option was Booty Bay - Ratchet, which meant you were in Horde lands, not that far way from Theramore, which was connected to Menethil anyway.

Nowadays it's quite outdated tbh. All the same, each expansion has featured new places to gather in, and they were very nice in Legion and BFA.

...Now that I think about it, I've never wondered why there is a human town named after human royalty in Wetlands, which is part of Khaz Modan. I should look into its history.

The area was destroyed during the second war. After that, Daelin Proudmore built the harbor and named it in honor of King Terenes.

[Zuben]

The area was destroyed during the second war. After that, Daelin Proudmore built the harbor and named it in honor of King Terenes.

Cool. I imagine it would be remade with Kul Tiras assets if we get another world revamp, then.

[AcidicSyn]

Cool. I imagine it would be remade with Kul Tiras assets if we get another world revamp, then.

Ooooo that would be cool! It's barely a dock right now =\

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So... even mere thought is a crime now? In a "free" undead society? Even Stalin had people questioned and beaten up before shooting them, usually, you know? And he was like the paranoia on legs with fancy mustache.

More or less ya, they either need to be broken and bitter at the humans or sylvanas can’t take the chance and wants them dead.

[VladlTutushkin]

What is your source on that? We have twelve people involved. At least five were defecting (Tomas, Parqual, and the three Felstones). We have Vellcinda standing in the middle arguing with Callia. That puts us at six of twelve already not returning when the rangers killed them (even if Elsie planned on returning, she hadn't actually done it at the time she was killed). Wilmer, the one sister, and the other unnamed members have no information about them, other than an unspecified number were heading back toward the wall (given the wording, it was likely at least three were returning, since "several" isn't often used to describe one or two people, but it could be three, four, five, or all six unspecified individuals).

As for the reason, Sylvanas gave it. She couldn't be sure if they wanted to return or if they were only being motivated by fear. I don't think that's a good reason for killing someone, but that's the reason she gave.

Thats a bullshit reason that should strip her of any excuses. She has none and she is a tinpot tyrant. Those who came back should have being detained, not killed.

And those who left... well she could have killed them, but its still kinda fucked considering how she whinged about "freedom of undead" and supposedly was not running an oppressive regime.

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More or less ya, they either need to be broken and bitter at the humans or sylvanas can’t take the chance and wants them dead.

Its the usual "freedom" in any authoritarian state. You are "free" to be as nasty and fucked as you wish, as long as its in line with the Party Line. Step outside of it however, is a death sentence or a ticket to "re-education facility".

[Ersula]

So... even mere thought is a crime now? In a "free" undead society? Even Stalin had people questioned and beaten up before shooting them, usually, you know? And he was like the paranoia on legs with fancy mustache.

Treason is still a crime in every nation: Calia wasn't throwing a "free marketplace of ideas" party. She was throwing a "Defection-in-direct-opposition-of-the-government parade"

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Its the usual "freedom" in any authoritarian state. You are "free" to be as nasty and fucked as you wish, as long as its in line with the Party Line. Step outside of it however, is a death sentence or a ticket to "re-education facility".

That's kinda the forsaken in a nut shell just like with the "rot brains" in the starting area. they are free to leave but start convincing others to do so to start your own faction? big no no.

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Treason is still a crime in every nation: Calia wasn't throwing a "free marketplace of ideas" party. She was throwing a "Defection-in-direct-opposition-of-the-government parade"

Treason only applies to those actually defecting there were Undead doing every thing sylvanas told them to who were killed as well.

[VladlTutushkin]

Treason is still a crime in every nation: Calia wasn't throwing a "free marketplace of ideas" party. She was throwing a "Defection-in-direct-opposition-of-the-government parade"

Sylvanas herself always spoke that Forsaken are free to go if they wanted. Hell, we saw forsaken who openly dissed her in Silver Hand.

Plus those who were coming back clearly were not defecting, so they did nothing to be killed.

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That's kinda the forsaken in a nut shell just like with the "rot brains" in the starting area. they are free to leave but start convincing others to do so to start your own faction? big no no.

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Treason only applies to those actually defecting there were Undead doing every thing sylvanas told them to who were killed as well.

But again Sylvanas was always a huge hypocrite and piece of shit, so its no fucken surprise to anybody with a brain that she ended up as insane as she did.

Shame they will redeem her non the less.

[Toho]

They are not two questions. It is a single question.
Why is blizzard forcing me to work with a character who before gave me every reason to kill him as soon as I see him? That even working with him is a betrayal of my faction and race.

Except for the Horde it really isn't. Unless you are role playing a mindless killing machine that the Horde has unfortunately become.
There are no two aggrieved parties here. There is only one and I will give you a clue, it isn't the Horde.

The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.

[sighy]

Sylvanas herself always spoke that Forsaken are free to go if they wanted. Hell, we saw forsaken who openly dissed her in Silver Hand.

Plus those who were coming back clearly were not defecting, so they did nothing to be killed.

Leonid never was one of the Forsaken, he has been given the option, but never accepted.

All a Forsaken had to do, in order to leave was ask her and subsequently never oppose the Forsaken. "We'll slaughter anyone, who stands in our way." is really not ambiguous what so ever. And tbh given her track record of getting betrayed like all the time trust issues are well justified, even before considering how completely autistically consequentialist undead are.