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  1. #21
    I am really confused by what they are trying to do here... if you are going to gut specs just make the mage tower give you a template character and a waiting room to sort out hot keys and gear before you enter...

    I know a lotta classes relied on spells that simply don't exist anymore.. I thought removing the artifact reward was dumb but I didn't know it was only the tip of the poorly thought out ice berg.

  2. #22
    Explanation is very simple, TW will continue to be available in future expansions when Shadowlands borrowed power is gone, so they don't want to tune it around that stuff.

  3. #23
    "Hey guys so uh we're dumb and can't come up with any new ideas so we're just gonna make legion mage tower.....k? k....k?....k"
    "k..."
    "k... But, can players use their current borrowed power in it? that would make only sense right? since you know they grinded for it"
    "no, no, not at all"

    BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAAHAHAHHA this company is a joke, you WoW players are such sheep my god. You can't even use your CURRENT BORROWED POWER? so they make you grind and grind and grind and then you can't even use anything from the expansion that you've been grinding in!? talk about getting your balls kicked... but then again most of you are American which means you probably identify as having your balls removed so makes sense

  4. #24
    Could they not just say ''conduits and soulbinds don't work"? Why have the ridiculously long list?

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaanuJaanu View Post
    It will still be a walk in the park, squish does wonders. No reason to panic yet.
    Except didn't Blizzard say that they are scaling up Mage Tower to player levels instead of squishing player down to a set ilv (like the rest of TW)?
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    they need to try and plug some of the holes in the sinking ship.

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    i suspect most of them won't be possible to complete due to the sheer number of bullshit systems that have come and gone since legion and how some of them were designed around the artifact weapon traits and perks which no longer exist.
    Its kinda funny. Most of the playerbase begs for mage tower and mage tower-esque things while crying because blizzard doesn't listen to the playerbase. Then when they do listen, theres nothing but bitching because blizzard listened to the playerbase.

    Its almost like it doesnt matter what blizzard does, people like you will always look for a reason to whine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Explanation is very simple, TW will continue to be available in future expansions when Shadowlands borrowed power is gone, so they don't want to tune it around that stuff.
    Easy there. These are the MMOC forums. We dont take kindly to logic and critical thinking in these parts.

  7. #27
    I feel that this is either going to lead to MT being a total walk in the park due the nightmare of balancing around no expansion abilities, or overwhelmingly difficult for the same reason with no inbetween.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Its kinda funny. Most of the playerbase begs for mage tower and mage tower-esque things while crying because blizzard doesn't listen to the playerbase. Then when they do listen, theres nothing but bitching because blizzard listened to the playerbase.

    Its almost like it doesnt matter what blizzard does, people like you will always look for a reason to whine.

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    Easy there. These are the MMOC forums. We dont take kindly to logic and critical thinking in these parts.
    Not logical thinking since the classes are balanced around current expansion features and will continue to be. Even if the MT is balanced towards how players are currently in shadowlands without the shadowlands abilities, that wont be true come next expansion with its ability adjustments and talent changes.
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  8. #28
    Warchief Alayea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Its kinda funny. Most of the playerbase begs for mage tower and mage tower-esque things while crying because blizzard doesn't listen to the playerbase. Then when they do listen, theres nothing but bitching because blizzard listened to the playerbase.

    Its almost like it doesnt matter what blizzard does, people like you will always look for a reason to whine.
    For what it's worth, I was one of those not wanting the Mage Tower to come back. Not because "muh exclusivity" nor "get gud qq", but because I found it to be poorly executed. I did all 36 specialization fights, and many either had it too easy (such as affliction warlock), too difficult (mistweaver monk), or felt tedious (all the specs for God-Queen's Fury).

    And that was with system mechanics that were since removed. Just how is Blizzard planning to balance Mage Tower when the challenge scenarios were entirely designed around borrowed power and can't even get scaling from legacy content working right? It's really disappointing that they have yet to give players any honest to goodness details about its inner workings. So far, all we've got to go on is what has been data-mined.
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  9. #29
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Legion was the first expansion that featured borrowed power in the 'modern' sense of the word. It was hard enough to balance even when it was current, so now they perhaps found out that having to scale it up was bound to be even harder.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  10. #30
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dewd View Post
    either do it right by tuning it to current shit
    and that's... exactly what they are doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Alayea View Post
    Just how is Blizzard planning to balance Mage Tower when the challenge scenarios were entirely designed around borrowed power and can't even get scaling from legacy content working right?
    I mean, they obviously won't, right? At release some specs will have it really easy and some will be nigh-impossible. Then they'll fix that stuff over time.

  12. #32
    Epic! rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Its kinda funny. Most of the playerbase begs for mage tower and mage tower-esque things while crying because blizzard doesn't listen to the playerbase. Then when they do listen, theres nothing but bitching because blizzard listened to the playerbase.

    Its almost like it doesnt matter what blizzard does, people like you will always look for a reason to whine.

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    Easy there. These are the MMOC forums. We dont take kindly to logic and critical thinking in these parts.
    people wanted a new experience SIMILAR to it, not just a copy/paste job which is what is being offered here, and as i said in my post, for many of the challenges it won't be possible to complete as the artifact weapon abilities needed for those specific specs don't exist anymore, so they are gonna need to adjust the challenge of it rendering it a completely different thing to what it was, and likely making it easier as a result, i did them all back when it first released, furthermore i haven't played WoW in over 2 years at this point so i have no stake in this shitshow anymore, i just enjoy coming in here to check and see what latest clusterfuck is going on in the game that i wasted so much of my life playing.

    retired march 2013 RIP - returned january 2016, purely because paladins finally get Ashbringer!

  13. #33
    I can't wait to see this THEN people will realize how BAD AND BORING CLASS DESIGN IS!
    And it's been like that SINCE LEGION!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Its kinda funny. Most of the playerbase begs for mage tower and mage tower-esque things while crying because blizzard doesn't listen to the playerbase. Then when they do listen, theres nothing but bitching because blizzard listened to the playerbase.

    Its almost like it doesnt matter what blizzard does, people like you will always look for a reason to whine.

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    Easy there. These are the MMOC forums. We dont take kindly to logic and critical thinking in these parts.
    Wanting something and wanting them not to fuck said something up shouldn't be seen as two contradictory wishes...

  15. #35
    What level do you need to be to do this? Cap? 50?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by MKGulantik View Post
    What level do you need to be to do this? Cap? 50?
    Appears to be scaling down to 45. My guess is 45+ is good.
    Signature by Caerule

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Could they not just say ''conduits and soulbinds don't work"? Why have the ridiculously long list?
    Blizzard didn't put out the 'ridiculously long list;' that comes from the datamining of the technical specs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    I can't wait to see this THEN people will realize how BAD AND BORING CLASS DESIGN IS!
    And it's been like that SINCE LEGION!

    I'll take "complaints people have had since...forever for $100, (shit, who is the new Jeopardy host?)"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I mean, they obviously won't, right? At release some specs will have it really easy and some will be nigh-impossible. Then they'll fix that stuff over time.

    And I think part of the issue is that some fights were made much easier by particular powers related to the expansion...hopefully they can tune it fairly "neutrally" as they're intending (not that I have particularly high hopes). I'm sure you're right; some will require after-the-fact tuning.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by freernnur5 View Post
    Appears to be scaling down to 45. My guess is 45+ is good.
    You don't get your final talents until 50, so even if it allows you to do it before then, you'll be at a distinct disadvantage.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Blizzard didn't put out the 'ridiculously long list;' that comes from the datamining of the technical specs.
    Ah, point remains though :P (maybe less-so since it's datamining list, but shh)

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Ah, point remains though :P (maybe less-so since it's datamining list, but shh)
    I assume they're trying to make it 'expansion-neutral.' As in- it shouldn't be easier in SL due to Cov. abilities than it will in future expansions- so they're just cutting out expansion features.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
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