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  1. #61
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    But during the Cataclysm, the Cenarion Circle's Guardians of Hyjal sub-group controlled Nordrassil, and allowed the Horde and especially tauren druids to travel there. Besides, why didn't the night elves move there right away, after the Burning of Teldrassil, if they truly owned the World Tree?
    The guardians we’re defending the tree from the molten front that doesn’t make it any less night elf land.

    They also likely didn’t move to the tree right away because they were still fighting with the horde in bfa and wouldn’t be able to defend what civ’s they had left in hyjal and retake darkshore, saurfang even says that hyjal is one of the options to attack to weaken night elf control on Kalimdor but that Teldrassil is the more important target in a good war.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    I think the total abandonment would contest that claim. Fleeing via magic and airship
    from the imediate city as it was plague bombed, what you expect them to ahng around lmao, after it disspates or is magiced away its theirs, ideally it would be cleared of the filth of its former inhabitants (actual filth not the inhabitants)

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Last i looked it had been recently blighted around the capital, thus it might still be "no man's land" at least there.

    But keep in mind that other factions like the scarlets, the scourge (which would be rampant about now), the twilight's hammer in the hills, naga near the shores and the argent dawn to the east all also inhabit or border the place, making it much more of a grand melee rather than just a horde vs. alliance thing.

    As others mention we do know that the alliance won the warfronts, so i do expect that the alliance have at least managed to link up their territories up to aerie peak, and may have set their sights on gilneas or even andorhal as well, but we don't know what this means for the cursed lands of Tirisfal (especially given the abominations that still lurk underneath it, evidenced in the legion artefact quests).
    Naga and scarlete? Bitch the horde and alliance defeated the burning legion. I think they can handle some naga.

  4. #64
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Naga and scarlete? Bitch the horde and alliance defeated the burning legion. I think they can handle some naga.
    Technically the horde and alliance didn’t do much during the legion it was all the natural factions that did all the work.

    One could also argue that after a ton of loses during legion and then even more in bfa the horde and alliance would be weaker then they were pre legion even with the allied races.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrowseer View Post
    from the imediate city as it was plague bombed, what you expect them to ahng around lmao, after it disspates or is magiced away its theirs, ideally it would be cleared of the filth of its former inhabitants (actual filth not the inhabitants)
    You're trying toa ssert conquest was held and therefore the rightful claim despite the fact that no forces maintained their position =/

    Pretty flimsy claim.

  6. #66
    "I don't get it is Lordaeron now humanlands or undeadlands now?"

    Neither. Deadlands.

    Right burnt.

    I like to think there's one scarlet crusader that managed to make it out alive planting a flag on the burnt, plagued wasteland saying "hah, told you guys we'd win!"
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    You're trying toa ssert conquest was held and therefore the rightful claim despite the fact that no forces maintained their position =/

    Pretty flimsy claim.
    Not at all, I think you do not understannd that owning the lands around an abanonded city also includes owning the city, but thats ok.

  8. #68
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrowseer View Post
    Why because of the real world laws for land ownership? Its alliances by right of conquest.
    then why alliance qq rivers when horde took lands in cata to actually balance number of lands owned by faction? lorewise alliance dominate far more lands than horde, while both sides have 1 alien race and rest are natives, heck horde have trolls who existed prior to any other race in wow in first place
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  9. #69
    The Lightbringer The-Shan's Avatar
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    I think its largely contested, the forsaken havent returned to the Undercity yet, though they've expressed desire to. The horde has some considerable military holdouts in Alterac, but the Alliance is the dominant force in the region with the forsaken forces in shambles, shattered and scattered, with the Alliance in possession of Gilneas and Stromgarde again, with a buffer & control over Hillsbrad, with the ability to quickly deploy to Tirisfal.

    The Alliance just has too many strong holdings in the area for the forsaken to logically hold it if it came to conflict, unless they are able to unite their diaspora that was cast to the wind with the fall of the Undercity to return and reclaim the city, and stabilize their position.

    This might be easier said than done with a resurgent Scarlet presence in northern Lordaeron, as the city becomes habitable again, there will be a mad dash by Turalyon's Stormwind, the Forsaken, and the Scarlets to take control of the strategically and symbolically important city.
    thinly veiled high elf thread

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Technically the horde and alliance didn’t do much during the legion it was all the natural factions that did all the work.

    One could also argue that after a ton of loses during legion and then even more in bfa the horde and alliance would be weaker then they were pre legion even with the allied races.
    well, yes and no. I believe it was said at some point that the two factions were busy defending the EK & Kalimdor so the order halls were at the forefront in the broken isles

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    Blizzard doesn't get it either. The status of Lordaeron hasn't been established in official lore. Everything else is speculation and fan fiction.

    What we know is that the Alliance won both Arathi and Darkshore warfronts.


    Almost nobody did every single war campaign quest so its okay if you didn't see this & return the Tirisfal zone to normal. But how they're going to defend Lordaeron is another question entirely. Seems like the percursor to Forsaken Elf allied races. But maybe just chalk that up to content they built up & never followed through on.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2021-11-01 at 06:02 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post


    Almost nobody did every single war campaign quest so its okay if you didn't see this & return the Tirisfal zone to normal. But how they're going to defend Lordaeron is another question entirely. Seems like the percursor to Forsaken Elf allied races. But maybe just chalk that up to content they built up & never followed through on.
    That's very interesting, thanks for showing it. Unfortunately that's another of the many plot lines they open and leave for years. If Derek and Calia position as Forsaken leaders that will be two members of very prominent Alliance aligned families in the Horde leadership. They keep diminishing the faction separation, yet they keep maintaining it's a staple of the franchise. It is still unclear what's the status of Lordaeron. The Alliance took it back, Sylvanas blighted the Undercity and status is unknown.
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    then why alliance qq rivers when horde took lands in cata to actually balance number of lands owned by faction? lorewise alliance dominate far more lands than horde, while both sides have 1 alien race and rest are natives, heck horde have trolls who existed prior to any other race in wow in first place
    Not sure what you mean by qqing over lands in cata, you mean crying because they took some in cataclysm? Not sure what that has to do with this.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    then why alliance qq rivers when horde took lands in cata to actually balance number of lands owned by faction?
    In no small part because of the presentation via the new Alliance quests, which were variants of HAHA LOSER, with one where you're sent out gathering bear asses per normal and when you return, the camp is burned to the ground and everyone is dead by the Horde. "If only you had been there, hero. Oh well, slink off to the next zone with your tail between your legs."

    Yeah, what's not to enjoy? /sarcasm

  15. #75
    Herald of the Titans Ardenaso's Avatar
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    west side is Forsaken lands and belong to the Horde; east side is Argent Crusade lands and are neutral at best
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  16. #76
    Canonically it remains Contested.

    The Alliance controls Stromgarde and the Arathi Highlands after their victory at the end of the Battle of Stromgarde, they have also reoccupied the ruins of Southshore, Shadowfang Keep, and Fenris Keep. Under Regent Turalyon, they look to expand their control in the area by reoccupying other former holdings of the Alliance, after the success at Stromgarde.

    The Horde remains in control of most of Tirisfal, minus Lordaeron Keep, Brill, and its surroundings which are plagued and burned, and the Scarlet Monastery which obviously remains hostile to both factions. It has also reoccupied the ruins of Alterac and Strahnbrad.

    There will likely be tensions in the future in this area; as the Alliance under Regent Turalyon might conduct border skirmishes against Horde forces in Alterac and Strahnbrad to retake these former holdings of the Alliance. But there will not be a full-blown war, there will simply be border skirmishes and a sort of "cold war" state, not too differently from the many skirmishes between Tarren Mill and Southshore in Vanilla.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    I think its largely contested, the forsaken havent returned to the Undercity yet, though they've expressed desire to. The horde has some considerable military holdouts in Alterac, but the Alliance is the dominant force in the region with the forsaken forces in shambles, shattered and scattered, with the Alliance in possession of Gilneas and Stromgarde again, with a buffer & control over Hillsbrad, with the ability to quickly deploy to Tirisfal.

    The Alliance just has too many strong holdings in the area for the forsaken to logically hold it if it came to conflict, unless they are able to unite their diaspora that was cast to the wind with the fall of the Undercity to return and reclaim the city, and stabilize their position.

    This might be easier said than done with a resurgent Scarlet presence in northern Lordaeron, as the city becomes habitable again, there will be a mad dash by Turalyon's Stormwind, the Forsaken, and the Scarlets to take control of the strategically and symbolically important city.
    Derek is guiding the ships that are taking the undeads to lordaeron.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    That's very interesting, thanks for showing it. Unfortunately that's another of the many plot lines they open and leave for years. If Derek and Calia position as Forsaken leaders that will be two members of very prominent Alliance aligned families in the Horde leadership. They keep diminishing the faction separation, yet they keep maintaining it's a staple of the franchise. It is still unclear what's the status of Lordaeron. The Alliance took it back, Sylvanas blighted the Undercity and status is unknown.
    calia represents the forsaken in the council of the horde


  18. #78
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    calia represents the forsaken in the council of the horde
    Lillian Voss is actually the current interim representative of the Forsaken on the Horde Council - Calia Menethil acts as a counselor to the Forsaken, and presumably an aide or majordomo for Voss. Voss has intimated she would promote Calia at some future point, viewing her as more ideal for the role, but this has yet to canonically occur.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Lillian Voss is actually the current interim representative of the Forsaken on the Horde Council - Calia Menethil acts as a counselor to the Forsaken, and presumably an aide or majordomo for Voss. Voss has intimated she would promote Calia at some future point, viewing her as more ideal for the role, but this has yet to canonically occur.
    I have a feeling that by the time we get back to Azeroth it may have.

  20. #80
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moozart View Post
    I have a feeling that by the time we get back to Azeroth it may have.
    Possibly, but that's still something to be determined when it becomes canon knowledge. For now, though; Voss remains the leader for the Forsaken with Calia only in a supporting role, despite her current prominence in the story.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

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