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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Fuck people, named after a good person or a bad person doesn't fucking matter. It's like you all are trying to say we can't have anyone share names with anyone. This shit is like saying we need to change the actor John Wayne's name because he shared a name with a serial killer.
    Actually, it would be more like if John Wayne Gacy was an uncle or very good family friend that the actor John Wayne was named after. AND THEN the secret came out that Gacy was a serial killer and "Oh shit, better change the actor's name!"

    But good try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Who gives a shit if it has the most female players in it? Who gives a shit if someone shares a name with someone else?

    The only thing I can potentially decipher is that people honestly believe that they ARE their name. They somehow believe that their name is their existence, and not just something arbitrarily given to them at birth so others can categorize them easier.
    A point you keep skipping over is that the character was NAMED AFTER the person. Not that they simply and by total coinkydink share a name.

  2. #382
    Bloodsail Admiral froschhure's Avatar
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    You'll remember me when the west wind moves
    Among the fields of barley
    You can tell the sun in his jealous sky,
    When we walked in fields of gold

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    Hellow mr. Pew pew lazorr Cassidy
    love WoWarcraft

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    The issue here is that we do not know if Jesse McCree is a "bad person" as you said. There is no evidence about that.
    Blizzard is going about renaming any character tied to a real person to avoid any potential future embarrassment/issues that may come up from it.
    My post also doesn’t even have to be directly about McCree as it applies to anything in this context. The point doesn’t change. People are acting outraged because a name is being changed.
    Just to go a step further, it’s Blizzard’s property. If they want to change his name simply because a lead dev woke up one day and said “you know, I like the name BabyFace Jason for a cowboy gangster,” they are completely allowed to do that. As others have pointed out, there’s hints Jesse McCree, a terrible name for a cowboy, isn’t even his real name.
    There’s also nothing stopping people from continuing to call him McCree if they want to.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Blizzard is going about renaming any character tied to a real person to avoid any potential future embarrassment/issues that may come up from it.
    My post also doesn’t even have to be directly about McCree as it applies to anything in this context. The point doesn’t change. People are acting outraged because a name is being changed.
    Just to go a step further, it’s Blizzard’s property. If they want to change his name simply because a lead dev woke up one day and said “you know, I like the name BabyFace Jason for a cowboy gangster,” they are completely allowed to do that. As others have pointed out, there’s hints Jesse McCree, a terrible name for a cowboy, isn’t even his real name.
    There’s also nothing stopping people from continuing to call him McCree if they want to.
    So moving goalpost is all you got ?

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    As others have pointed out, there’s hints Jesse McCree, a terrible name for a cowboy, isn’t even his real name.
    Since when is it a terrible name? It's a very good name, IGN would give 8/10. Better than Cole Cassidy.

  6. #386
    Dreadlord Rageadon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Supporting sexual predators is fun!
    cuz getting rid of the problem is to rename and delete history and act like nothing ever happen

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Since when is it a terrible name? It's a very good name, IGN would give 8/10. Better than Cole Cassidy.
    Do you play Overwatch? You should get the reference if you play with game sounds on.

  8. #388
    To their credit, "Cole" is a cool name, as is "Cassidy". I think combining them, though, gives off a cheesy, comic-book vibe.

    I can understand the situation. I mean, naming a character after an employee was kind of a dumb move to begin with. I WILL point out that, to my knowledge, there haven't been any allegations against the person and former employee, Jesse McCree; I've only heard Alex Afrasiabi named personally (and one other, whose name eludes me). Even if some people didn't like him, I still think they should've just stuck with the original name.

    Personally, here's how *I* would've handled it, if absolutely necessary:

    A new character shows up -- maybe a human-hating Omnic (just to mix things up) -- and they have a bone to pick with McCree. They're a SUPER old -- ancient, even -- which begs the question "Why would they have a bone to pick with this relatively young guy?". He hunts McCree down, only to discover it isn't the real McCree at all. Turns out, the REAL Jesse McCree was a ruthless outlaw and stone-cold killer, some 50 years or so back. Eventually, his way of life caught up with him, crippling him, and costing the life of his daughter -- but not before she had a son.

    The real Jesse McCree was a tough old man, forcing the young boy into back-breaking work in the fields, from dawn until dusk. But one day, the McCree farm was attacked by Omnics. The young boy was too scared to do anything but hide in his room, while his grandfather -- wheelchair-bound with nothing but a rifle and a revolver -- protected the farmstead.

    Once the gunfire finally dies down, the young boy goes to survey the damage, only to find his grandfather had made his last stand right outside the boy's room, committed to protect his grandson even if the rest of the homestead burned. Wracked with guilt -- and a whirlpool of emotions, from love, to hate, to respect -- he takes up the old man's gun and name, vowing to never be a scared child, but instead a feared vagabond.

    Something happens, and -- perhaps with an emotional reassurance from Ashe -- he is able to come to terms with who his grandfather was; a man who was deeply flawed, but in the end realized there were people were fighting and dying for. And also forgive himself for not having been stronger. He then takes up his real name, the one given to him by his mother. I would personally KEEP the name "McCree" -- actually "Cole McCree" sounds kind of cool, too -- OR you could double as a MAJOR plot-twist, and reveal that his mother originally gave him the *FATHER'S* surname, which could potentially be linked with another Overwatch character (ie. maybe McCree's mother hooked up with Reaper in his youth, or perhaps a brother or something sharing the name Reyes?).

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    [/I]
    And what about when you're actively warned about oing to HR because those that would deal with the complaint are friends with the people you'd accuse? One of the complaints in the lawsuit is Employees were allegedly “discouraged from complaining as human resource personnel were known to be close to alleged harassers.”

    Also worth pointing out that clearly they did speak out, otherwise the lawsuit wouldn't exist. Who do you think the authorities were talking to for two years?
    And you know they went to Jesse? Did anyone mention him when they were name dropping people like that fuzzy haired cm dude like the one woman did on twitter for people who knew but didn't do shit?

    And if the HR people were close to the harassers that doesn't mean Jesse or who ever told people not to go to HR it could have been other employees saying "don't bother they aint gonna do shit." The fact that Alex was fired shows that speaking out does get shit done even if they dragged their asses in doing so.

  10. #390
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    Actually, it would be more like if John Wayne Gacy was an uncle or very good family friend that the actor John Wayne was named after. AND THEN the secret came out that Gacy was a serial killer and "Oh shit, better change the actor's name!"

    But good try.

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    A point you keep skipping over is that the character was NAMED AFTER the person. Not that they simply and by total coinkydink share a name.
    No, it still doesn't matter. My middle name is named after an uncle who is currently in prison for conning people. Does this mean that I should change my middle name because an uncle who happens to share the same name that was arbitrarily picked at some point? What matters is the things that I do, my own personal record, not what my name shares attachments to.

    Your entire argument is dog shit because it assumes that names are more important than peoples actions.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    I don't even play Overwatch so this isn't really a big deal for me.
    What a fancy way to get +1 post count.

  12. #392
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    To their credit, "Cole" is a cool name, as is "Cassidy". I think combining them, though, gives off a cheesy, comic-book vibe.

    I can understand the situation. I mean, naming a character after an employee was kind of a dumb move to begin with. I WILL point out that, to my knowledge, there haven't been any allegations against the person and former employee, Jesse McCree; I've only heard Alex Afrasiabi named personally (and one other, whose name eludes me). Even if some people didn't like him, I still think they should've just stuck with the original name.

    Personally, here's how *I* would've handled it, if absolutely necessary:

    A new character shows up -- maybe a human-hating Omnic (just to mix things up) -- and they have a bone to pick with McCree. They're a SUPER old -- ancient, even -- which begs the question "Why would they have a bone to pick with this relatively young guy?". He hunts McCree down, only to discover it isn't the real McCree at all. Turns out, the REAL Jesse McCree was a ruthless outlaw and stone-cold killer, some 50 years or so back. Eventually, his way of life caught up with him, crippling him, and costing the life of his daughter -- but not before she had a son.

    The real Jesse McCree was a tough old man, forcing the young boy into back-breaking work in the fields, from dawn until dusk. But one day, the McCree farm was attacked by Omnics. The young boy was too scared to do anything but hide in his room, while his grandfather -- wheelchair-bound with nothing but a rifle and a revolver -- protected the farmstead.

    Once the gunfire finally dies down, the young boy goes to survey the damage, only to find his grandfather had made his last stand right outside the boy's room, committed to protect his grandson even if the rest of the homestead burned. Wracked with guilt -- and a whirlpool of emotions, from love, to hate, to respect -- he takes up the old man's gun and name, vowing to never be a scared child, but instead a feared vagabond.

    Something happens, and -- perhaps with an emotional reassurance from Ashe -- he is able to come to terms with who his grandfather was; a man who was deeply flawed, but in the end realized there were people were fighting and dying for. And also forgive himself for not having been stronger. He then takes up his real name, the one given to him by his mother. I would personally KEEP the name "McCree" -- actually "Cole McCree" sounds kind of cool, too -- OR you could double as a MAJOR plot-twist, and reveal that his mother originally gave him the *FATHER'S* surname, which could potentially be linked with another Overwatch character (ie. maybe McCree's mother hooked up with Reaper in his youth, or perhaps a brother or something sharing the name Reyes?).
    McCree's come off as an always certain, always sure of himself man of action, so such a backstory would sure add some welcome vulnerability to him. I never read the story about his and Ashe's youth, so maybe there's something there, but I digress.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  13. #393
    Gay pornstar Cole Cassidy?

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    No, it still doesn't matter. My middle name is named after an uncle who is currently in prison for conning people. Does this mean that I should change my middle name because an uncle who happens to share the same name that was arbitrarily picked at some point? What matters is the things that I do, my own personal record, not what my name shares attachments to.

    Your entire argument is dog shit because it assumes that names are more important than peoples actions.
    It sure as shit matters. If my parents named me "Peter" after an uncle who ended up going prison for raping little girls, I'd sure as hell get a legal name change. The name was NOT arbitrarily picked. The character was specifically named after that person.

    That you continue to try and argue otherwise just shows how blatantly dishonest and/or deluded you are.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageadon View Post
    cuz getting rid of the problem is to rename and delete history and act like nothing ever happen
    Super weird take, but okay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    Gay pornstar Cole Cassidy?
    You think it was a coincidence?

  16. #396
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    It sure as shit matters. If my parents named me "Peter" after an uncle who ended up going prison for raping little girls, I'd sure as hell get a legal name change. The name was NOT arbitrarily picked. The character was specifically named after that person.

    That you continue to try and argue otherwise just shows how blatantly dishonest and/or deluded you are.
    Good argument tactic, just claim that everyone who disagrees with your world view is dishonest and deluded. It's like the grown up version of "I know you are so what am I?"

    I'm just telling you how the world works. You're the one claiming that naming anything after something imparts some sort of "uncleanness" to whatever you name. Maybe you should stop getting offended at little shit that doesn't matter at the end of the day. Maybe instead of getting a name change because "Peter" is unclean, you live your life as a good person so other people named "Peter" don't suffer? I've known Atheists named after saints, and dogs named after people who have committed genocide. A name is just a name, and you making it out to be more than that is highly discouraging to the intellectual state of society.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Good argument tactic, just claim that everyone who disagrees with your world view is dishonest and deluded. It's like the grown up version of "I know you are so what am I?"

    I'm just telling you how the world works. You're the one claiming that naming anything after something imparts some sort of "uncleanness" to whatever you name. Maybe you should stop getting offended at little shit that doesn't matter at the end of the day. Maybe instead of getting a name change because "Peter" is unclean, you live your life as a good person so other people named "Peter" don't suffer? I've known Atheists named after saints, and dogs named after people who have committed genocide. A name is just a name, and you making it out to be more than that is highly discouraging to the intellectual state of society.
    See, here's the problem. Someone named their dog after a prick who committed genocide? That's fucked up and not something to be "Oh well, a name is just a name." If I adopted a dog named Mengele after Josef Mengele, I sure as hell wouldn't keep calling the dog that.

    Now, an atheist named after a saint? That's just apples to oranges and really doesn't apply here unless the atheist is one of those "If anyone believes in God, they're idiots and horrible people."

    McCree is a taint in Blizzard's eyes, however. And for all we know was named to be a big problem. That's why Blizzard scrubbed references of him from the game. References. Not credits, references.

    And that's the way the world works. Not your bizarro way.

  18. #398
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlz View Post
    What a fancy way to get +1 post count.
    Dope ass move right?

  19. #399
    Bloodsail Admiral Goatfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    See, here's the problem. Someone named their dog after a prick who committed genocide? That's fucked up and not something to be "Oh well, a name is just a name." If I adopted a dog named Mengele after Josef Mengele, I sure as hell wouldn't keep calling the dog that.

    Now, an atheist named after a saint? That's just apples to oranges and really doesn't apply here unless the atheist is one of those "If anyone believes in God, they're idiots and horrible people."

    McCree is a taint in Blizzard's eyes, however. And for all we know was named to be a big problem. That's why Blizzard scrubbed references of him from the game. References. Not credits, references.

    And that's the way the world works. Not your bizarro way.
    I should point out, my bizarro way is how the world actually works and not how people treat the world. I understand that if someone named Hitler created the cure for cancer that there would be people outraged. I personally believe in hylomorphism from Aristotle which practically states that the form something takes is what generates the thing. People are stuck in thinking that the name IS the thing instead of realizing that a thing is all aspects of its form/function and not the name ascribed to it. So where someone like you thinks in the sense that a McCree is a concept that needs to be erased, other people understand that a character in a video game (even if named after someone else) is not that person and does not represent them.

    To put it the most simply, you are advocating destruction of symbology of ideology you disagree with. I'm not saying it's a rare thought, I'm just pointing out its uselessness which stems from a self-centered world view. You even claimed already that any disagreement with your view must be delusional or dishonest, which means you aren't even willing to entertain ideas that conflict with your current world view.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    I should point out, my bizarro way is how the world actually works and not how people treat the world. I understand that if someone named Hitler created the cure for cancer that there would be people outraged. I personally believe in hylomorphism from Aristotle which practically states that the form something takes is what generates the thing. People are stuck in thinking that the name IS the thing instead of realizing that a thing is all aspects of its form/function and not the name ascribed to it. So where someone like you thinks in the sense that a McCree is a concept that needs to be erased, other people understand that a character in a video game (even if named after someone else) is not that person and does not represent them.

    To put it the most simply, you are advocating destruction of symbology of ideology you disagree with. I'm not saying it's a rare thought, I'm just pointing out its uselessness which stems from a self-centered world view. You even claimed already that any disagreement with your view must be delusional or dishonest, which means you aren't even willing to entertain ideas that conflict with your current world view.
    Now you're just trying too hard.

    The argument is "Hey, Blizzard is wrong for deciding to rename a character in their game who was named in honor of a former member of their staff who they fired for some stuff that hasn't been made public." They have every right to do that, especially if what the real McCree did was really bad which is what can be assumed from the on-going lawsuit.

    Your side finds it wrong and that the video game character has nothing to do with the real McCree, which I am calling bullshit rightly so. And now you're claiming I'm the delusional/dishonest one for not entertaining your idea that I'm wrong? Your opinion is that the character shouldn't be renamed. Sure, that's okay. But it's a fact that the character is specifically being renamed because it has EVERYTHING to do with who it was named after; A person who has been fired because of their troubling behavior within Blizzard.

    Enough is enough. You can dislike it, but there's a reason it's happening. And it makes sense in context. Context you apparently cannot grasp in your dement viewing of this world. Stop being a snowflake.
    Last edited by Dead Moose Fandango; 2021-10-26 at 10:11 PM.

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