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  1. #41
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BossManRoth View Post
    Leadership has already admitted the changes are coming from the dev team, and not from any kind of demand of the player base.
    Most changes to the game of any kind are attributable to the dev team. Once in a while player demands figure into it but after reading several quadrillion threads and posts whining about "the devs don't listen" it's logical to assume that changes to systems and features are driven internally. So I'm not sure I get your point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    I don't care what their policies are, they need to stop changing things no one asked for.
    Take a look at the news posts sometime. Examine carefully the many ability changes to classes, the many string changes, etc. etc. How many of those are things that anyone asked for?
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by BossManRoth View Post
    Probably not rogue, by the work environment is probably just as, if not more toxic than before, with every demand a veiled threat of "We ruined them and we can ruin you too if we don't get our way." Leadership has already admitted the changes are coming from the dev team, and not from any kind of demand of the player base.
    This is probably the closest reality we can infer about the situation at Blizz right now, because ActiBlizz is in a really bad spot right now. I can almost guarantee corporate is just letting these changes go just to appease the devs at Blizz, whether they agree with them or not. I can imagine corporate likely doesn't think it's the best way to go about doing such changes, but they'd rather take the loss in this arena than give the lawsuits more ammo of 'anti-employee behavior' when corporate doesn't bend the knee. It's fairly obvious at this point in time that no player post-lawsuit was going to leave the game because of the 'problematic' content being in the game (as they would've left a long time ago), but you will lose players by removing said content (especially in the manner it's being done). But it's better to let the children at Blizz have their temper tantrum and get it out of their system so the adults can move on. Yes, this sounds petty and childish in nature... but companies in this sort of situation will stoop to that level to cover their butts in the long-term.

    I've made in clear in several posts that I think Blizz just change out one bad regime for another bad regime, it just has a different world view. The current reigning world view at Blizz, based upon their actions and words, is very vindictive and childish and lacking morality/logic. It's akin to letting people with the mentality and emotional tendency of toddlers having control... and any parent here will know exactly what that's like, and how even adults can act this way. For toddlers, it's all about "me! me! me!", always tending towards selfishness; for a developing child, this is only natural... but for an adult, it's insanely immature. Toddlers can do downright mean things with no regard for others with this mindset, or blame everyone and everything but themselves as they are never wrong; again, for a developing child who has not fully learned any morality or logic, this is only natural... but for adults to embrace such behavior (and even praise it) is borderline dangerous. While I don't think everyone at Blizz embraces such tendencies, those that are vocalizing and throwing their weight behind the changes certainly embrace these tendencies.

    In fact, I guarantee there are people at Blizz right now who do not agree with these changes, but probably have to be silent because they're afraid of what their coworkers will do or say about them. From how some of these devs treat the players in their tweets, I could easily see the same devs doing everything short of doxing their fellow employees if they don't fully agree with and implement such changes. As an extension to the previous world view discussion, another tenant of this childish world view is that you must break or destroy anything that you do not like... and that can include people you disagree with. There is no reasoning, there is no discussion, it's the same adage of "slit your own throat, or we'll slit it for you" that you see in the historically tyrannical governments with high body counts. The specific talking points may differ, but the root of all of them is still evil.

    All in all, if there were reasonable and level-headed people running things right now, this entire situation would be handled in quite a different manner (regardless if the content would ultimately be removed or not). There's multiple ways 'you can have your cake and eat it too' when it comes to handling this specific scenario. But did Blizz go with the rational or well-conceived solutions? No, Blizz went with the combative/argumentative route where we insult and/or attack the customers, further cementing that a change of regime is not going to bring the real change that is desperately needed at their company.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    WoW devs are so wildly out of touch with their playerbase its insane.
    Not just with their playerbase...

  4. #44
    You know what's also ironic, the dev Tweet I linked also plays Final Fantasy and said so that he/she "respects them" and that it's an awesome game.

    Either completely unaware that Final Fantasy has even worse sexual innuendos, more curse words and even references rape a few times.

    Either they're dumb as a brick, or completely unaware how hypocritical they sound.

  5. #45
    So... team 1 and 2 confirmed?
    The funniest thing for me is always: 'All opinions are mine. Especially bad ones.'
    Idea of 'i can say whatever i want about my boss is fine' is mind boggling.
    These people do not see difference between free speech and being harmful to the company they work.

  6. #46
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Blizz went with the combative/argumentative route where we insult and/or attack the customers, further cementing that a change of regime is not going to bring the real change that is desperately needed at their company.
    Equating some personal account tweets to corporate policy is a stretch.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  7. #47
    The "abusers" were the cocky rockstars in Blizzard who made successful content that defined the industry in many aspects and were having an attitude for it. The people wiping their traces now are the spiteful lower grade devs who never got to shine, whose ideas and work always fell flat and didn't earn the cheers of the community, despite them working much harder than the rockstars. Truth is they just don't have it, you can work triple as hard, but someone with talent will be better than you seemingly effortlessly.

    Nobody knows their names, because they never managed to do anything to be known about. They are trying with some inept little wars on Twitter, something about values and pronouns and inclusivity without merit. But yet again their efforts are misplaced and yet again they are earning outrage instead of the praise they long for.

    You can't "go rogue" and do whatever you like and publish it in the live game, that's not how business works. Everything they are doing passes approval. But also nothing of these pointless cleanups will matter. WoWs future hangs on whatever force within the company manages to organize their resources towards the speed and quality at which they deliver the remainder of SL content and 10.0. One major patch per year will not do it and no amount of high morals demonstrated through Twitter can make up for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    So... team 1 and 2 confirmed?
    The funniest thing for me is always: 'All opinions are mine. Especially bad ones.'
    Idea of 'i can say whatever i want about my boss is fine' is mind boggling.
    These people do not see difference between free speech and being harmful to the company they work.
    Just jumping in for clarification:

    Team 1 is what used to be Vicarious Visions and, IIRC, the remnants of the Classic Games team that managed to re-interview after the original team was dissolved. Team 2 is the World of Warcraft development team as a whole; within that development team they've previously alluded to two divisions, one handling launch content and the other handling patch content, but jury's out if that's actually how it works these days since they haven't really talked about their internal structure much since Ion rose to head the team. If this remains true, there'd be a third group in Team 2 that works on Classic WoW just.

    As far as 'all opinions mine' and whatnot, that's become industry standard in entertainment and a few other fields like journalism. It's just a clarification that John in Accounting discussing his opinions on the latest tax plans being voted on by his country's legislative arm, or Kenji from QA discussing what he wants Adventure Game to be like, aren't official company statements. And yes, this means discussing when things at work suck, which most parts of the modern world consider free speech; indeed, a significant chunk of what we know about the lawsuits' specific details comes from firsthand accounts from current and former employees' social media feeds (which is protected speech in the US; a company can't legally retaliate against you for discussing illegal/harmful workplace practices).
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  9. #49
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    You know what's also ironic, the dev Tweet I linked also plays Final Fantasy and said so that he/she "respects them" and that it's an awesome game.

    Either completely unaware that Final Fantasy has even worse sexual innuendos, more curse words and even references rape a few times.

    Either they're dumb as a brick, or completely unaware how hypocritical they sound.
    Or you know they don’t have a problem with games having sexual innuendo’s or curse words but they have a problem with sexual harassers putting them in and while continuously harassing other employees.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #50
    Cant wait for them to rewrite everything Sylvanas has done since 2005.

  11. #51
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    The "abusers" were the cocky rockstars in Blizzard who made successful content that defined the industry in many aspects and were having an attitude for it. The people wiping their traces now are the spiteful lower grade devs who never got to shine, whose ideas and work always fell flat and didn't earn the cheers of the community, despite them working much harder than the rockstars. Truth is they just don't have it, you can work triple as hard, but someone with talent will be better than you seemingly effortlessly.
    This is an incredibly childish way to look at any sort of development on the scale of wow.

    The “rockstars” aren’t known because there amazing talented people who carried the game they were just the public faces who got all the praise for hundreds or thousands of others work.

    the lower grade devs ideas didn’t fall flat or fail to earn cheers all of those cheers just didn’t to to the people who actually did in the effect because no one goes through the credits to see who actually did what they just see a guy on the stage at blizzcon and praise them. This is no where better show cased then all the other studios made by old big name devs that do nothing but crash and burn like wild star or never put any thing out at all.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  12. #52
    What's the logic of removing things from the game just because a small number of people who put them in the game are shits?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic1962 View Post
    Cant wait for them to rewrite everything Sylvanas has done since 2005.
    you mean removing some of the worst parts of the story from the game???? uh, yes please? like can we just pretend BFA and SL never happened?

  14. #54
    If they want to get rid of stuff that's fine but Corpsegrinder npc didn't racially slur you or harass you and make people not want to do content. If they want to get rid of abusers then clean up the toxic player base.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    So... team 1 and 2 confirmed?
    The funniest thing for me is always: 'All opinions are mine. Especially bad ones.'
    Idea of 'i can say whatever i want about my boss is fine' is mind boggling.
    These people do not see difference between free speech and being harmful to the company they work.
    No, it's the same thing that has always been confirmed. There is Xpac development (team 1) team and live patch development team (team 2).

    It's not the old unsubstantiated theory that there are 2 expansions being developed at the same time.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    you mean removing some of the worst parts of the story from the game???? uh, yes please? like can we just pretend BFA and SL never happened?
    Well it would follow what they are doing since supposedly Afrasiabi is behind her character, but i dont think that will ever happen because Blizzard is hardly conistent in anything, and would require way too much effort.

  17. #57
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I think the problem is that there have been TWO incidents.

    1. Blitzchung.
    2. Frat-boy attitudes.

    Clean up the frat boy stuff? Yes. But hand over the keys of WoW to a crowd that sympathizes with China and their censorship? NO. By going thru and hitting the censorship button hard, they look like they probably side with China. So they are still fucking up.
    Standing up to China is something very few businesses have the stones to do, Blitzchung is hardly a ActiBlizz issue and more of how the world ponys up to Chinese censorship for the money potential.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Standing up to China is something very few businesses have the stones to do, Blitzchung is hardly a ActiBlizz issue and more of how the world ponys up to Chinese censorship for the money potential.
    Blitzchung had literally NOTHING to do with "pandering to China", and literally everything to do with the simple fact that he broke the explicitly stated rules regarding not using Blizzards e-sports platform for political grandstanding and got rightly slapped down for it. The fact that he was politically grandstanding about China is irrelevant.

  19. #59
    seems like when anyone gains power in blizzard they go crazy with it.
    the report systems sucks and the mods are bias.

  20. #60
    Bloodsail Admiral Palapop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    WoW devs are so wildly out of touch with their playerbase its insane.
    This. This. This. This x 100000.


    We (players) ask for certain things in game for months, patches, years, expansions.... nothing happens.

    They want something on their own- they do it without even blinking an eye about satisfied customers.

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    https://twitter.com/trulyaliem/statu...95769168125954



    hahahahaha xD

    This pretty much sums up how hard they work on WOW

    spent most of the night watching Netflix and leveling Weaver in FFXIV.

    and frankly I'm disappointed in myself for only learning recently just how amazing Gillian Anderson talking about sex with a British accent really is.



    That's her tweet. "Wow developers" don't even play wow. They just hunt down "sexist/racist (green-skin lol)/homophobic" slurs in game and remove them.

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