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  1. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I'm so confused, why is there a moral outrage over a (likely) freak accident? I'd say wait to see what the family wants to do and when more info comes out because otherwise, we're just fabricating scenarios to get angrier than necessary.
    Cannot speak for others, but I'm coming from a legal angle, not moral. Alec would reasonably face involuntary manslaughter, though he is likely to get off scot-free.

    Definitely a freak incident, too. Killing the director of photography, and injuring the director, is wild. I could only assume it was during a scene where the gun was meant to be fired toward the camera.
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  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I'm so confused, why is there a moral outrage over a (likely) freak accident?
    Because he's an evil lefty who mocked Trump.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Cannot speak for others, but I'm coming from a legal angle, not moral. Alec would reasonably face involuntary manslaughter, though he is likely to get off scot-free.

    Definitely a freak incident, too. Killing the director of photography, and injuring the director, is wild. I could only assume it was during a scene where the gun was meant to be fired toward the camera.
    Confident enough to declare what charges he should face and yet you still haven't bothered to look up how people have described the circumstances of what happened? Fascinating.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2021-10-24 at 10:00 PM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Cannot speak for others, but I'm coming from a legal angle, not moral. Alec would reasonably face involuntary manslaughter, though he is likely to get off scot-free.

    Definitely a freak incident, too. Killing the director of photography, and injuring the director, is wild. I could only assume it was during a scene where the gun was meant to be fired toward the camera.
    Thing is, this will be considered a workplace accident. Unless there was purposeful and malicious intent behind it(along with repeated warnings over a period of time stating said stuff), jail time will be rare here even for the assistant director/head armorer.

    Legally, unless you can prove that he went out of his way to use live bullets in the gun(against all safety regulations) or colluded with someone to use live bullets, he would be held about as accountable as a worker at a workplace that hurts someone else accidentally.

    Legally, he will be held financially as he is a producer(boss). He is there to make sure safety regulations are followed and the like but like most bosses, they cannot see everything all the time. He can(and might be) sued by both the state(OSHA regulations and the such) and the family in civil court.

  4. #244
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I'm so confused, why is there a moral outrage over a (likely) freak accident? I'd say wait to see what the family wants to do and when more info comes out because otherwise, we're just fabricating scenarios to get angrier than necessary.
    Cause Alec Baldwin made fun of Donald Trump. That is the ONLY reason.
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  5. #245
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Cannot speak for others, but I'm coming from a legal angle, not moral. Alec would reasonably face involuntary manslaughter, though he is likely to get off scot-free.
    Definitely a freak incident, too. Killing the director of photography, and injuring the director, is wild. I could only assume it was during a scene where the gun was meant to be fired toward the camera.
    Doesn't that depend on if the family feels the need to press charges? Or if the State wants the go-ahead? If no one truly meant any harm, I'm fine with the involved parties settling this how they see fit. Some really fucked things happen, but the investigation is paramount to know what needs to be done.

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Because he's an evil lefty who mocked Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Cause Alec Baldwin made fun of Donald Trump. That is the ONLY reason.
    Maybe, but I've seen left-leaning people say similarly harsh things in relation to gun-safety rambling. Thankfully most commentary I've seen is just bewilderment and concern for the family.
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  6. #246
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's weird how...naive? simple?...people's view of events and the law can be.

    "He fire gun. He go jail."
    No, no, no, you don't get it.

    "He hollywood liberal who made fun of Trump fire gun, he go to jail"

    You think these people give a rat's ass about y'allqaeda people taking over federal property while brandishing weapons or "patriots" gunning down people they think look "suspicious?"

    I mean, to see how hypocritical and bald-faced partisan they are, just look for their hot take on the woman actively breaking into the capital building who was shot by an officer protecting congress. They hail her as a martyr and the policeman, acting in palpable fear for his and other's lives, as government oppressor who shot an "innocent woman." All because they think support of Trump (and, by extension, any condemnation of Trump) transcends the binding of any laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Maybe, but I've seen left-leaning people say similarly harsh things in relation to gun-safety rambling. Thankfully most commentary I've seen is just bewilderment and concern for the family.
    I've heard no compelling arguments that Baldwin was at any fault in his role as an actor. Nothing was binding him to inspect the gun himself (literally someone else's job on a film set,) nor was he in the wrong in pointing it at another person (happens all the time on film sets)
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-10-24 at 10:20 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
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  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Maybe, but I've seen left-leaning people say similarly harsh things in relation to gun-safety rambling.
    Guns do elicit a knee-jerk reaction sometimes. I'd be perfectly happy if this incident led to tightening regulations or changing practices within the industry.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Doesn't that depend on if the family feels the need to press charges? Or if the State wants the go-ahead? If no one truly meant any harm, I'm fine with the involved parties settling this how they see fit. Some really fucked things happen, but the investigation is paramount to know what needs to be done.



    Maybe, but I've seen left-leaning people say similarly harsh things in relation to gun-safety rambling. Thankfully most commentary I've seen is just bewilderment and concern for the family.
    Well, at least one thing I can predict might come from this. That is Baldwin might not be able to get a movie going outside of the porn industry now because he will be known as someone who skimps on things and, if the news is right on this, doesn't pay people on time.

  9. #249
    I don't understand why people are jumping to condemn someone for what is probably a freak accident. Should Baldwin have check the gun out 100%? I don't actually know what regulations are in place here for actors using what are supposed to be just props.

    But has any type of actual malice or more direct negligence happened that I haven't read about yet? Like was he massively drunk or just pointing and pulling the trigger for fun for no reason or was he spinning the gun in the trigger guard like he was a showing off cowboy and it went off or something?

    Just seems like he was an actor acting and it went off and killed someone. Like do you fully inspect your car every day? If the tire blew out and you hit someone as a result, would you demand that you go to jail for manslaughter or something?

    I don't even like Alec Baldwin, but if this were my family killed, and it was proven that he was just doing a scene and he accidentally killed someone, I wouldn't want him to go to jail, tightened regulations, yes. Just seems like people seething at the mouth to throw celebs in jail.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Thwart View Post


    How many firearms safety rules did Alec Baldwin break? Not an accident, but negligence .

    He should be charged with involuntary manslaughter in accordance with New Mexico law.
    Dumb take is dumb.

    On topic: Does anybody know if it happened during the shooting of a scene (which was my initial assumption) or if he was messing around with it between takes?

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    On topic: Does anybody know if it happened during the shooting of a scene (which was my initial assumption) or if he was messing around with it between takes?
    Unless new information has come out, it was a misfire during a scene.

  12. #252
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I don't understand why people are jumping to condemn someone for what is probably a freak accident. Should Baldwin have check the gun out 100%? I don't actually know what regulations are in place here for actors using what are supposed to be just props.
    The regulations that appear not have been properly followed revolved around the armorer and the assistant director not properly handling the watching and loading of the weapon and who then told Baldwin the weapon was safe to use. It's not the actor's job to inspect the weapon themselves at any point.

    But has any type of actual malice or more direct negligence happened that I haven't read about yet? Like was he massively drunk or just pointing and pulling the trigger for fun for no reason or was he spinning the gun in the trigger guard like he was a showing off cowboy and it went off or something?
    From the information that has come out, it was during the filming of a scene in which he was supposed to fire the gun.

    Just seems like he was an actor acting and it went off and killed someone. Like do you fully inspect your car every day? If the tire blew out and you hit someone as a result, would you demand that you go to jail for manslaughter or something?

    I don't even like Alec Baldwin, but if this were my family killed, and it was proven that he was just doing a scene and he accidentally killed someone, I wouldn't want him to go to jail, tightened regulations, yes. Just seems like people seething at the mouth to throw celebs in jail.
    Pretty much.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #253
    With how good CGI and sound effects are, what is even the purpose of using a gun that has the possibility of firing a projectile in the first place? Just seems like taking a risk for the sake of taking a risk. Like.. just record the sound of the gun firing in a similar space without anyone there and then copy paste the sound.

    I hope this acts as a lesson for future hollywood movies that people's lives are more important than getting the "perfect shot".
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-10-24 at 11:28 PM.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It is a tragic accident, that all.

    Maybe it will lead to better safety control to prevent these in future, but it's not the first nor the last time it happened, so might not even be that.
    It doesn't help that the propmaster that controls the guns on the set, wasn't there. 100% on that assistant director.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I'm so confused, why is there a moral outrage over a (likely) freak accident? I'd say wait to see what the family wants to do and when more info comes out because otherwise, we're just fabricating scenarios to get angrier than necessary.
    These people are mad, because it involves Alec Baldwin, the guy making fun of Trump for the last 4 years on SNL. If it would have been a conservative actor, someone like James Woods or something like that, they would be defending him. Guaranteed.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    With how good CGI and sound effects are, what is even the purpose of using a gun that has the possibility of firing a projectile in the first place? Just seems like taking a risk for the sake of taking a risk. Like.. just record the sound of the gun firing in a similar space without anyone there and then copy paste the sound.

    I hope this acts as a lesson for future hollywood movies that people's lives are more important than getting the "perfect shot".
    Simple, it's way cheaper, and far more realistic. That's why they have experts on hand, to prevent issues like this. And, considering the number of firearms used in movies, the risks are still rather low for this thing to happen. People are far more likely to be injured in stunts.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Cannot speak for others, but I'm coming from a legal angle, not moral. Alec would reasonably face involuntary manslaughter, though he is likely to get off scot-free.

    Definitely a freak incident, too. Killing the director of photography, and injuring the director, is wild. I could only assume it was during a scene where the gun was meant to be fired toward the camera.
    And you would be very wrong. He was told the gun was empty, just like if someone hands you a gun, tells you to check it out and claims it is unloaded, and you shoot, you wouldn't be held criminally liable.

  17. #257
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    With how good CGI and sound effects are, what is even the purpose of using a gun that has the possibility of firing a projectile in the first place? Just seems like taking a risk for the sake of taking a risk. Like.. just record the sound of the gun firing in a similar space without anyone there and then copy paste the sound.

    I hope this acts as a lesson for future hollywood movies that people's lives are more important than getting the "perfect shot".
    It seems this film was being produced on a low budget. Moreover, producing fake guns made to look exactly like real ones when the studio already owns a number of real ones they can loan out would likely be far more expensive than loading the real ones with fake bullets and not fucking it up. And CGI is time intensive and not particularly cheap, especially if you're trying to make it look as good as a blank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Simple, it's way cheaper, and far more realistic. That's why they have experts on hand, to prevent issues like this. And, considering the number of firearms used in movies, the risks are still rather low for this thing to happen. People are far more likely to be injured in stunts.
    To wit, the number of people killed each year (hundreds) let alone injured (thousands) via mishandled firearms in the United States at large vastly, vastly outnumbers the number of firearm related on-set injuries/fatalities, which I'm going to offhand guess one could count on one or two hands.

    And when you think of all the films and TV shows produced every year and how many guns they can require (John Wick says hello) I'd say Hollywood has a pretty good safety record compared to the redneck gun enthusiast shooting his or someone else's toe off.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-10-24 at 11:37 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Yes, I expect an actor playing a pilot to do some pilot training so it looks more credible on screen.
    Such a bad take. Kate Beckinsale doesn't even know how to drive a car.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Guns do elicit a knee-jerk reaction sometimes. I'd be perfectly happy if this incident led to tightening regulations or changing practices within the industry.
    Agreed. It's entirely because of this was a gun accident. Thankfully with modern technology most productions are using special effects in post productions now wrt to using guns and fewer and fewer productions are using these kind of prop guns that actually fire anything.

  19. #259
    Legendary! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Doesn't that depend on if the family feels the need to press charges?
    The family wouldn't have a say in it. Not on manslaughter charges.

    The family could, however, go the civil court route and sue for wrongful death, like the second OJ trial.

    Whom they would name in the suit and whether or not that suit would be successful is another matter entirely.


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  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I'm so confused, why is there a moral outrage over a (likely) freak accident? I'd say wait to see what the family wants to do and when more info comes out because otherwise, we're just fabricating scenarios to get angrier than necessary.
    Pretty much boils down to: Alec Baldwin spent the past 5+ years mocking Trump and people are still big mad over that.

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