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  1. #261
    Elemental Lord PfeffermintShake's Avatar
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    Kinda amazing this thread has lasted longer than any previous mass shooting thread.
    Those usually get locked in half as many pages to protect the hurt feelings of pro-gun snowflakes that post here.

    It's a weird point of hypocrisy for the management of MMoC.

  2. #262
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    That is clearly not the case for films and TV shows, as evidenced by any film or TV show where any person uses a gun. Of which there are several.



    At any rate, here are the thoughts of someone actually qualified (a film/TV prop master) speaking on what seemed to go wrong on the set:




    At no point does he say "Alec Baldwin should have made doubly extra sure the rounds weren't real" or "you should treat every gun as if it's loaded with a lethal round."
    https://www.thewrap.com/heres-how-a-...-a-fatal-shot/

    A blank can still discharge and launch a projectile capable of killing or injuring someone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I really don't know what you think you folks are going to achieve, pushing disinfo like this.

    There are plenty of cases where it's not the gun wielder's fault. If shoddy range security means there's someone downrange and out of their sightline. In cases where a gun fired at a lawful target ricochets or punches through material and injures another. And yes, movie sets where accidents like this occur, where the responsibility, if any, is going to fall on the armory team in the props department. And even there, nothing criminal may have occurred; we haven't had confirmation there was a live round, as far as I know, at this stage. A "bad" blank where the wadding remains together leads to tragic outcomes, but it isn't a case of negligence.

    It's a maxim they teach you in gun safety lessons, but it's not actually the legal or moral truth.
    He more or less may not be criminally but I'm sure a good case and a civil argument could be made.

  3. #263
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    https://www.thewrap.com/heres-how-a-...-a-fatal-shot/

    A blank can still discharge and launch a projectile capable of killing or injuring someone.
    That's nice.

    That in no way places any blame on Baldwin in his role as an actor. He was handed a gun that he was told was safe and then acted out the scene.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #264
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    He more or less may not be criminally but I'm sure a good case and a civil argument could be made.
    Possibly due to his role running the film, if it can be shown he influenced hiring the head armorer and assistant director who fucked this up so badly.

    Not because it was his finger that pulled the trigger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Such a bad take. Kate Beckinsale doesn't even know how to drive a car.
    Like, in many cases, particularly with anything related to violence, you often don't want actors to have much experience. If your training and muscle memory teach you how to hit someone in the face for maximum damage, that's not the same skill as stage combat where nobody gets injured and it looks good to the camera. If your instincts are to aim at your target with a firearm, and you have to constantly remind yourself to aim off-target because your instincts tell you otherwise, that's not helpful.

    Doing a thing and acting to portray that thing on camera are not the same skillset. I don't know why people don't understand that.


  5. #265
    Swap out Alec Baldwin with James Woods and Thwart would be on the other side of the argument.

    Or, at the very least, he wouldn't be here arguing about it.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-10-25 at 03:46 AM.

  6. #266
    The victim's father has said that he doesn't blame Baldwin for this, and Baldwin has met her husband and kid as well so it sounds like they don't either.

    There is a report, which if true, is a big ouch. Some of the crew apparently had been using the gun for target practice during down time and somehow a live bullet got left in it. Apart from the fact they should never have had access to it, it means they failed to check the gun was empty when they returned it and that the armourer and AD didn't either before handing it to Baldwin.

    Oh, and one that I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will drag up - the armourer was the daughter of a longtime armourer in the industry that worked on the set of The Crow where Brandon Lee died.

  7. #267
    Legendary! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Oh, and one that I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will drag up - the armourer was the daughter of a longtime armourer in the industry that worked on the set of The Crow where Brandon Lee died.
    This doesn't seem to be true. The armorer on Rust is Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. Her father is Thell Reed, who was an armorer, but not on The Crow. The armorer on The Crow was John Patteson.

    There's no record that I can find that indicates that Thell Reed worked on the set of The Crow in any other capacity. He has, however, been a long-time armorer for Russell Crowe, which may be where the confusion lies (9 movies together over 35 years: The Quick and the Dead, L.A. Confidential, Proof of Life, 3:10 to Yuma, State of Play, The Next Three Days, Winter's Tale, The Water Diviner, Unhinged).



    - - - Updated - - -

    Ah, actually, the link wasn't Hannah Gutierrez-Reed or Thell Reed, but the assistant director who handed the gun to Alec Baldwin. His name is Dave Halls, and he worked on The Crow: Salvation, the sequel to The Crow.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  8. #268
    That is what comes of trusting news articles at face value sometimes....

  9. #269
    The only way he could be held responsible, as far as I can tell, is if he knowingly hired a weapon handler/armourer who was not qualified.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Well, at least one thing I can predict might come from this. That is Baldwin might not be able to get a movie going outside of the porn industry now because he will be known as someone who skimps on things and, if the news is right on this, doesn't pay people on time.
    Hahahahahahahahahaha. Thanks for that. You know that’s his role as a producer right? Plenty of them work with tight budgets. And since they’re the ones who get movies made, he’ll always be able to find newcomers who are just happy to get their film made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The victim's father has said that he doesn't blame Baldwin for this, and Baldwin has met her husband and kid as well so it sounds like they don't either.

    There is a report, which if true, is a big ouch. Some of the crew apparently had been using the gun for target practice during down time and somehow a live bullet got left in it. Apart from the fact they should never have had access to it, it means they failed to check the gun was empty when they returned it and that the armourer and AD didn't either before handing it to Baldwin.

    Oh, and one that I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will drag up - the armourer was the daughter of a longtime armourer in the industry that worked on the set of The Crow where Brandon Lee died.
    Rule #1 of a movie set with guns is NO LIVE AMMO ON SET. Fucking shitshow.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Rule #1 of a movie set with guns is NO LIVE AMMO ON SET. Fucking shitshow.
    Possible solution as a catch-all would be no more ammo on set, period, including blanks. All "gun shots" will be computer rendered during post. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think actor/actress and crew safety is more important than making gun fights look 100% authentic.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by RampageBW1 View Post
    Possible solution as a catch-all would be no more ammo on set, period, including blanks. All "gun shots" will be computer rendered during post. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think actor/actress and crew safety is more important than making gun fights look 100% authentic.
    Seriously. They act like they get punched, they can’t act like a gun is firing?

  13. #273
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Ah, actually, the link wasn't Hannah Gutierrez-Reed or Thell Reed, but the assistant director who handed the gun to Alec Baldwin. His name is Dave Halls, and he worked on The Crow: Salvation, the sequel to The Crow.
    The extreme contortions those people have been going to in order to try and link this incident to The Crow give me a headache.
    /s

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    The extreme contortions those people have been going to in order to try and link this incident to The Crow give me a headache.
    Everything can be connected if you just try hard enough.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Everything can be connected if you just try hard enough.
    Otherwise known as the Kevin Bacon effect.

  16. #276
    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kno...baldwins-fatal

    Don't worry y'all, "very good, moral people" are using this tragedy to make themselves a profit.

    This sums up the criticism in a nutshell. A bunch of folks happy they have a new dead body to make money off of. Capitalism, ho!

  17. #277
    Legendary! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RampageBW1 View Post
    Possible solution as a catch-all would be no more ammo on set, period, including blanks. All "gun shots" will be computer rendered during post. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think actor/actress and crew safety is more important than making gun fights look 100% authentic.
    The thing is that film crews are, with extremely rare exceptions, already very, very safe. There are almost never accidents like this because of the rules that most crews follow well.

    This was just negligence, pure and simple. I won't be surprised in the least if someone is charged/sued over this.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    The thing is that film crews are, with extremely rare exceptions, already very, very safe. There are almost never accidents like this because of the rules that most crews follow well.

    This was just negligence, pure and simple. I won't be surprised in the least if someone is charged/sued over this.
    The assistant director handed the firearm to Alec Baldwin and yelled out cold gun.

    Apparently in 2019 there were complaints about this assistant director with his track record on safety.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kno...baldwins-fatal

    Don't worry y'all, "very good, moral people" are using this tragedy to make themselves a profit.

    This sums up the criticism in a nutshell. A bunch of folks happy they have a new dead body to make money off of. Capitalism, ho!
    Well, Don Jr has to pay for his massive coke habit and cosmetic surgery habit for his wife. Both are very expensive. We all know Daddy doesn't have money.

  20. #280
    Why are they using real guns on a set anyways? I literally just watched a movie with a fucking dragon fighting some lovecraftian monster and you’re telling me they can’t cgi a gun?

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