After watching Echo and Limit play FF

[Stormbreed]

Its time, and I'd like people to get behind me here. The one major thing Scripe and Max keep saying, over and over again about FF raiding. They love the GROUP SIZE.

Lets all send Blizzard a message

BRING BACK 10Person!

[Daedius]

Blizz will be calling it 10 person raids, learn to be inclusive OP!

[Log Cabin]

The issue with ten man raiding comes down to two key factors. You can't scale a boss to have both a small group and large group competitively ten will almost always be easier simply due to the increased space they have per person.

WoW's class system and fine tuning would likely only allow eight or so classes to be competitive in such an environment maybe less. It could work out if it was treated more like a dungeon style run like ZA in tbc but it wouldn't work well for its own end game progression system.

[Nagawithlegs]

You can have ten man if you accept the simplicity of XIV bosses and classes that allow for smaller raids.

[Stormbreed]

Blizz will be calling it 10 person raids, learn to be inclusive OP!

Fixed and thanks for keeping an eye on this

- - - Updated - - -

You can have ten man if you accept the simplicity of XIV bosses and classes that allow for smaller raids.

You're mistaken, and should watch Echo and Limit try and get the bosses down blind, they're not "as hard" but they are not easy. Just like 10 Person raiding, some bosses were easier some were harder.

[Specialka]

Fixed and thanks for keeping an eye on this

- - - Updated - - -



You're mistaken, and should watch Echo and Limit try and get the bosses down blind, they're not "as hard" but they are not easy. Just like 10 Person raiding, some bosses were easier some were harder.

It is not that hard overall. Just need to learn the choregraphy by heart.

[Specialka]

You're saying FF classes are more simple than wow classes?

EL-OH-EL, my friend

Yes, they are. They are better designed but overall simpler to use.

[Isheria]

The only good designed jobs are the dps ones, healers and tanks are basically dps that sometimes heal and tank. There's a reason the majority of class complaints come from healers and tanks simply because of that and even the game director openly admits that he doesn't like designing healers and tanks.

[Nagawithlegs]

You're saying FF classes are more simple than wow classes?

EL-OH-EL, my friend

They are. Most people agree, so what’s the point? Most people also don’t care but the lack of complexity in rotations for XIV classes is a known thing.

[Beet]

Large raids are the one nice thing Blizzard has left in WoW. 10 man raids don’t feel epic. Shit I even miss 40 man raids. After playing Classic I was reminded just how amazing it felt to raid with a full 40 man raid team. It was epic as hell. 10 man is like a dungeon and kinda sad.

[Frostfred]

They are. Most people agree, so what’s the point? Most people also don’t care but the lack of complexity in rotations for XIV classes is a known thing.

That's weird. I usually hear people complain about the opposite (and other stuff) when comparing the classes of the two: FFXIV rotations are overly complex, bloated and too strict. I guess to each their own.

[Specialka]

That's weird. I usually hear people complain about the opposite (and other stuff) when comparing the classes of the two: FFXIV rotations are overly complex, bloated and too strict. I guess to each their own.

They are not complex. You just input the button in the same sequence over and over again with little to no proc. They are strict though.

[Elias1337]

Fixed and thanks for keeping an eye on this

- - - Updated - - -



You're mistaken, and should watch Echo and Limit try and get the bosses down blind, they're not "as hard" but they are not easy. Just like 10 Person raiding, some bosses were easier some were harder.

Major difference. FF doesnt let you use addons. WoW have harder bosses only becouse you have way more information during fight thanks to addons. So even ff bosses are easyer lack of addons and iformation puts them on same level difficulty as wow bosses.

[infinitemeridian]

That's weird. I usually hear people complain about the opposite (and other stuff) when comparing the classes of the two: FFXIV rotations are overly complex, bloated and too strict. I guess to each their own.

They are bloated and strict, but not complex. They're not terrible, but there's very little room for variation or decision making like WoW. Also, lmao at people saying that FF14 raids are simple. They have like 5 x more mechanics than wow raids, the only difficulty in wow is the massive gear requirement for most bosses. The mechanics are much simpler than FF.

[Specialka]

They are bloated and strict, but not complex. They're not terrible, but there's very little room for variation or decision making like WoW. Also, lmao at people saying that FF14 raids are simple. They have like 5 x more mechanics than wow raids, the only difficulty in wow is the massive gear requirement for most bosses. The mechanics are much simpler than FF.

They are are just the 5-6 mecanices coming over and over again, just with a different order depending of fight timer.

[Eli85]

I'll preface my comment with this: 10-man mythic raids will never happen.

I think most people who are committed to raiding understand the practicality of 10-man raiding, or in the case of XIV, 8-man raiding. In the current iteration of the game, it's often too difficult for your average mythic guild to assemble roughly 25 players who have high attendance and play at a high enough level. Yes, there are plenty of examples of guilds that don't have this problem, but anyone that's been raiding for awhile now knows roster boss is a big challenge, and often why guilds fall apart. If raids were suddenly designed around 10 players, a lot of these issues would dissipate. Thus why Limit and Echo are very warm to the idea.

Honestly, people really need to put aside the "but I like lots of players" argument and just focus on a practical solution that will make the most people happy.

[Specialka]

Major difference. FF doesnt let you use addons. WoW have harder bosses only becouse you have way more information during fight thanks to addons. So even ff bosses are easyer lack of addons and iformation puts them on same level difficulty as wow bosses.

You still have to process those informations so how about: no, you are wrong.

[Enter Name Here]

didn't you notice that 5man is the thing now?

[Aggressive]

The irony of WoW players getting attitude cause FFXIV is doing something fun in their game like 8 man raids.

Blizzard made a stupid ass choice to remove 10 man raids. IT WAS TOOOOOO FUN. Not sure why this is anything new for the boringness of WoW. Blizzard ALWAYS removes bullshit that the players like (Mage Tower, 10-man raids, reforge (some players liked it), certain abilities for classes....warlock metamorphosis). The game isn't designed for fun. IT IS DESIGNED TO GRAB WHALES AND TAKE THIER MONEY..............CONTINUOUSLY.

[Kalisandra]

The issue with ten man raiding comes down to two key factors. You can't scale a boss to have both a small group and large group competitively ten will almost always be easier simply due to the increased space they have per person.

While there's more space, there's also far less redundancy, and any mechanic that puts a players out of position or out of their normal function (DPS, etc.) has that much more impact on the raid's overall performance. That's why some fights in the past have been harder on 10-man than on 25-man. Heck, it's normal for fights these days on normal and heroic to be easier with 15+ players than with 10 for this reason.