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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    As someone who works in game development, your grades don't mean anything really. Due to Game Design being a relatively new major in college, most programs are terrible and you'll have to just learn everything on the job anyways. Also a college degree isn't required for most game dev positions anyways.
    Why would you assume i would hire a meme degree? CS degree for engine/networking/database devs. Dont have to make mystery meat choices when you see the dude aced all his tests on database design and took extra classes on it. Certainly better than nothing.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    What is there to take offense about? I personally don’t have any stake in gender nor do I care about all the labels, but that doesn’t mean I have to be against it. If hearing non binary or cis gender lingo agitates you, then you probably have some deep rooted problem you’re neglecting. Most people just don’t care about it, but you do.
    I care that they are giving the term attention and validation.

    I don't like how they encourage this behaviour

    Every one should simply.. just not care.

    Don't acknowledge it at all.

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Even at Blizzard there are entry-level positions that start an employee on the path to development. QA is one of them. There are others including internships which should be aggressively and fairly recruited with an eye toward diversity. Some internships work out, many don't. But the opportunity should be handed out in a fair manner.

    I have no argument with your comments on 'crunch' culture. It needs to go and it's acceptance in IT culture is more a manifestation of how badly projects are run, how unrealistic project target dates are, and the incompetence of team leaders, managers, and producers who should know better. As has been said earlier candidates that submit good portfolios of work likely have more value to the applicant than a computer science degree.
    I don't see how "crunch" culture would ever be ended voluntarily by a company. Most CEOs love it - they get more worker productivity, they meet deadlines more reliably (because they can just scale up hours at a whim) - and at least in the US, (predominantly male) workers are willing to do it.

    And as long as you keep the crunch culture, the core development departments will remain predominantly male. The pressure to hire for diversity will mean that other departments where there isn't as much crunch (like HR, billing, etc.) will become female. It's not going to be truly diverse, it'll be segregated.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumy View Post
    Specifically, I have asked the Board to reduce my pay to the lowest amount California law will allow for people earning a salary, which this year is $62,500. To be clear, this is a reduction in my overall compensation, not just my salary. I am asking not to receive any bonuses or be granted any equity during this time.
    According to Equilar research, Kotick has received $461 million in total compensation since 2007.

    Not sure how he will survive on that awful salary. He will prolly need to put a kitten mount or something in the WoW store today before he goes broke.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    I don't see how "crunch" culture would ever be ended voluntarily by a company. Most CEOs love it - they get more worker productivity, they meet deadlines more reliably (because they can just scale up hours at a whim) - and at least in the US, (predominantly male) workers are willing to do it.
    There is a photo timeline of a cdpr lead dev witcher 1 - 3 where he goes visibly zombie mode due to crunch. Straight quit after witcher 3 but in the meantime they got excellent value. Thats the price - they lost core people due to crunch and the result was cyberpunk. Its a pump&dump strategy for shortterm profits. Longterm its killing the golden goose.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    As someone who works in game development, your grades don't mean anything really. Due to Game Design being a relatively new major in college, most programs are terrible and you'll have to just learn everything on the job anyways. Also a college degree isn't required for most game dev positions anyways.
    As someone who has taught computer science, grades are unlikely to ever matter because it's really, really hard to assess students in computer science. When you have to grade dozens of different original programs at the same time, it becomes obvious that you're not going to be able to assess them well. So you end up defining a rubric that some students optimize around and do really well, while others don't bother because following a rubric is annoying and boring. So grades reflect your ability and desire to meet objectives defined in a rubric, not how good a programmer you are.

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    There is a photo timeline of a cdpr lead dev witcher 1 - 3 where he goes visibly zombie mode due to crunch. Straight quit after witcher 3 but in the meantime they got excellent value. Thats the price - they lost core people due to crunch and the result was cyberpunk. Its a pump&dump strategy for shortterm profits. Longterm its killing the golden goose.
    Pretty much. There's a good reason people who stay with one company long-term are rare. So long as fresh bodies replace the old ones, odds are it will continue.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    They're the incompetents that resulted the suit, wtf lmfaoo
    doesn't matter, the SJW's are the one's that ruined Blizzard and derailed development of their precious game so any and all reason for why that is doesn't register at all for these people.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    There is a photo timeline of a cdpr lead dev witcher 1 - 3 where he goes visibly zombie mode due to crunch. Straight quit after witcher 3 but in the meantime they got excellent value. Thats the price - they lost core people due to crunch and the result was cyberpunk. Its a pump&dump strategy for shortterm profits. Longterm its killing the golden goose.
    I don't agree that it hurts them long term, because the benefits of being able to make everyone work like crazy are huge. Game development is such a nonlinear process that it's hard to schedule and line up assets exactly where you need them unless you have some flexibility and can make certain groups work longer when they are blocking the critical path. So if you can get away with it, it's worth it to hire smart young 20 somethings and work them until they burn out, instead of carefully managing their schedule to cultivate them over the long term. Your leadership team usually needs to have experience, but they usually make enough money and/or they can manage their hours a bit better than the scrubs at the bottom that you're not going to have an issue with that.

  10. #350
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lets get more diversity hires in, that'll fix the game...

    Can't wait for 10.0 to remove any attractive females or suggestive armour from the game.

    Computer sciences graduates are mostly males, so going out of your way to disproportionately women or people with mental disorders is a sure-fire way to dilute what little talent there was left developing the game

    You get what you fucking deserve

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    I don't agree that it hurts them long term, because the benefits of being able to make everyone work like crazy are huge. Game development is such a nonlinear process that it's hard to schedule and line up assets exactly where you need them unless you have some flexibility and can make certain groups work longer when they are blocking the critical path. So if you can get away with it, it's worth it to hire smart young 20 somethings and work them until they burn out, instead of carefully managing their schedule to cultivate them over the long term. Your leadership team usually needs to have experience, but they usually make enough money and/or they can manage their hours a bit better than the scrubs at the bottom that you're not going to have an issue with that.
    They didnt do that. As said they got their lead core members to quit. It happened even mid development. The replacement was naturally incapable to substitute that loss. They are literally sqeezing as much as they can out now at the cost of higher longterm earnings by keeping the people working at max performance. Crunch is a crutch.

  12. #352
    So I guess this means that any man who wants to develop for Blizzard or enter into a senior role needs to move to a country with lower salaries and housing/personal security? Their US workforce can't grow forever, so the only way I see them making this shift in demographics is by firing men over nothing at all, killing employees somehow, huge layoff waves, or shipping off several employees to another global arm of their company where they can make the numbers in the US look the way they promised to.

  13. #353
    2. We will increase the percentage of women and non-binary people in our workforce by 50% and will invest $250 million to accelerate opportunities for diverse talent –Today, approximately 23% of our global employee population identifies as women or non-binary. Building on the success that King and other business units have achieved, we will seek to increase our percentage of women and non-binary professionals by approximately 50% – to more than one-third across the entire company – within the next five years and hopefully faster. Each franchise team, business unit, and functional area will be expected to have plans to help fulfill this ambition.
    Yeah this is the deathblow. Any hope for salvage is gone.




    https://www.linkedin.com/business/ta...by-166-percent

    https://www.pcgamer.com/how-blizzard...n-just-3-years

    Many more articles like this. It's amazing how this push and decline timeline lines up so perfectly. Clearly coincidence.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    They didnt do that. As said they got their lead core members to quit. It happened even mid development. The replacement was naturally incapable to substitute that loss. They are literally sqeezing as much as they can out now at the cost of higher longterm earnings by keeping the people working at max performance. Crunch is a crutch.
    Oh I agree that it can backfire, and it sounds like you've identified a case where that happened, but I don't think that's the norm. There are a lot of Blizz employees who lasted there a long time (20 years or so), and they certainly worked through a huge number of serious crunches. I think that on the whole, crunch culture increases performance and profits.

    Incidentally, I think it leads to a male dominated work culture, and also to some of the craziness we see at these companies (when you're working at a place 70 hours minimum per week, things can get a bit weird in the office).

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcho View Post
    So I guess this means that any man who wants to develop for Blizzard or enter into a senior role needs to move to a country with lower salaries and housing/personal security? Their US workforce can't grow forever, so the only way I see them making this shift in demographics is by firing men over nothing at all, killing employees somehow, huge layoff waves, or shipping off several employees to another global arm of their company where they can make the numbers in the US look the way they promised to.
    Between the high turnover rates in the games industry (as is currently being discussed ITT), Blizzard's pushing of more Diverse™ talent, and (mostly-white male) industry vets eventually reaching retirement age, the shift seems like it will likely occur with minimal, if any, deliberate firings. Just may take them longer than they'd want.

  16. #356
    Sooo how does this work, talented candidates that are a great fit in a role will have their applications declined if they're male?

    Am I missing something or is this just pure idiocy?
    Last edited by kranur; 2021-10-28 at 10:32 PM.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Sooo how does this work, talented candidates that are a great fit in a role will have their applications declined if they're male?

    Am I missing something or is this just pure idiocy?
    Not really. The core areas, responsible for developing the games the drive profit, will most likely continue to be male. What will happen is that supporting departments (in my old company, it was finance and hr), where work schedules are more regular, will become female dominated in order to balance it out. They'll figure out ways to make it look like everything is diverse in the numbers they report (maybe integrate finance and hr people into the development department, for example) but it won't be truly diverse.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Sooo how does this work, talented candidates that are a great fit in a role will have their applications declined if they're male?

    Am I missing something or is this just pure idiocy?
    If there are a number of talented candidates that are a great fit for a role preference will be given to people who increase the diversity quota.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    And this has nothing to do with any kind of bias? Get real.
    Uhm, no? There is like 0% bias in there....

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Or start working actively at a societal level to remove the biases that persist and continue to result in this unnaturally skewed situation.
    This would be much more harmful for the people like racism and bias all together. Removing our "natural" part is VERY dangerous. Big no no...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    And you can't see how the society we live in and its history biases these choices? Or how the choices that society continues to make on an ongoing basis can serve to perpetuate these biases?
    It has nothing to do with society and history. It is natural for boys to be interested in games or programming much more than girls, for example. It is natural that a girl focuses on her appearance and clothes much more than boys. Can a boy focus on his appearance and clothes? Of course. Can a girl love games or programming? Of course. But it will be NEVER equal, never. And it's okay, so nature works, you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I am not sure what the basis of such an assertion is. If you remove all societal biases I suspect that most jobs in the modern world would be equally suited to any gender.
    The problem is that you confuse the term "bias". We are not robots, or androids. We have feelings. There are jobs that girls prefer. There are jobs that boys prefer. That is how it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I am not suggesting forcefully changing anything. I am advocating for actively seeking out and addressing biases that disadvantage people based on race, gender, religion, etc.
    The sad thing is that this advocacy has led to a vast majority of negative change. Equality have never been achieved, but quite the opposite. The effort to combat bias achieved nothing but created another (even bigger) bias by force and deepened even more inequality. it's all violent, unnatural.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    And still it doesn't strike you that there are clear biases at work that are responsible for this situation?
    No, boys are just more in to it, you know... And it has nothing to do with bias. You're looking for problems somewhere where they don't exist

    TLDR: The fact that women and men prefer a different kind of work is not bias, but nature. Just trying to do the opposite means bias. 50% equality is utopia, and harms people.
    Last edited by Ajko; 2021-10-28 at 11:00 PM.

  20. #360
    Just a side note, Dave Kosak is no longer on the Deviation Games website, apart from in a huge wideshot of the entire team.

    His profile picture from the team is gone.
    Last edited by DingDongKing; 2021-10-28 at 11:10 PM.

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