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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Agreed.



    You really need to stop repeating this unsubstantiated assertion. You do it in every thread that pops up about tokens or the shop, and trying to present it as some kind of objective fact is basically a lie.

    If you want to speculate about the actual effect the shop has on the quality of the game, then consider these facts:
    • Blizzard's shop items rely on people playing the game
    • The shop provides a lot of extra revenue to the game for a relatively small cost (ie it is very profitable)

    Now consider the implications of these facts:
    • More players in the game means more shop sales. Blizzard are therefore incentivised to retain more players. You do that by providing great content.
    • More profit from the shop means Blizzard are more incentivised to continue to support and develop the game.

    In short, the shop gives Blizzard plenty of incentive to keep investing in the game and produce great content.



    You're confusing correlation with causation. I strongly suspect that WoW actually owes its continued existence to the shop.

    What "great" content ?? I tell you their would be hundreds of players who would argue with you about that point. And opinions vary greatly as well about Boringlands having "great" content.
    Be careful who you chat it up with here on these forums. If you are NOT for WoW and about WoW, people will report whatever you say and get you banned

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    The only error was their use of the word "literally". Should have used "effectively" or "in effect" instead. Not that this should be an impediment to any person of reasonable intelligence in being to able to understand the meaning.



    Entirely true, and equally irrelevant. It does not change the simple fact that at the end of the day someone spent gold and landed up with the mount. They may not have bought the mount directly for gold but the outcome (for them) is exactly the same.



    Or maybe we understand perfectly where the money is going and how it is getting there, but unlike you, we don't buy into the ridiculous notion that it's a "shitty predatory practice".

    I mean seriously, where is the crime in this? No one is being coerced into anything. Literally everything available on the WoW shop is entirely optional. It's time that people stop getting upset at the choices that consenting people make regarding how they want to spend their money. If you don't like tokens or shop mounts, you have the easiest solution in the world. Don't buy them. It's that simple. You literally have to do nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Try telling that this strawman dude. He'll tell you you're on Copium. Rotflmao



    True. But try to bear in mind that the value of hypothetical arguments lies in addressing issues involving a significant amount of uncertainty. There is no need to consider hypothetical scenarios that will never exist when we know exactly what the actual scenario is in reality. In practical terms there will always be enough tokens available on the AH for everyone willing to pay the going rate. The only question is how much that going rate is.
    Glad we re able to have a sensible discussion on this. Not very often do I get this on MMOC.

    To address a more universal issue however that sparked these more intricate side discussions:
    *The issue of optional cosmetic things*

    This is usually a thing that people brush off and do not care about in a lot of other games and even sub based games like FFXIV which is seeing major success despite having quite a large cash shop (though people have to understand that 90% of the things in that cash shop are event items that are no longer available).

    The reason people take issue with it in WoW and not in other games is because of the general current state of the game. Despite personal preferences, the general consensus right now is that the game is not in a good place and it can be seen also through remarks on social platforms that appeal to larger more casual audiences compared to forums which host smaller, more hardcore communities (eg; facebook comments, youtube like/dislike ratios etc).
    Because the game is not in a good state, blizzard releasing yet another shop mount is regarded as incredibly negative. It could literally be taking a fraction of their resources and might be completely irrelevant to the ongoing development of the game but as a PR move its still a very weird one as the average person just sees that their focus is entirely different to what people would expect after patches with 9 month delays or patches with 0 content like 9.1.5 which contain things that could literally be hotfixed into the game, smartly articulated in a way that looks like a content patch.
    When a game is doing well, cash shop cosmetics/mounts are not a huge issue nowadays and I hope blizzard can pull their heads out of their asses and do some proper PR management and handling as well as get back on track on their games.

  3. #523
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    What "great" content ?? I tell you their would be hundreds of players who would argue with you about that point. And opinions vary greatly as well about Boringlands having "great" content.
    Please pay attention, because it seems you are skimming and focusing on a few words, but missing the message entirely.

    I did not say that they were successful in creating great content. In fact my comment has nothing to do with the quality of the content. It has to do with the assertion that was made claiming that the shop is responsible for the alleged drop in quality of content in the game.

  4. #524
    So I will admit when I read your post this morning I had just woke up, had no coffee, and was still sleepy. However I have fixed all that and I decided to have my work associates read your post as well. So let me past a snippet from your post

    In short, the shop gives Blizzard plenty of incentive to keep investing in the game and produce great content.


    With that and SEEING YOUR WORDS, my original post will stay the same and my question still stands.
    Be careful who you chat it up with here on these forums. If you are NOT for WoW and about WoW, people will report whatever you say and get you banned

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    We're going to need a mop in this thread before too long with all the circlejerking going on. Who knew so many people could get off being so wrong for so long.
    It's kinda weird to insist everyone else is wrong when you're continuing the debate for god knows how long yourself.

    Even your own words show how wrong you are-

    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    No. My point is that no matter what you say, you cannot buy the mount with just gold. Someone is playing Blizzard real money. Because, ya know, tokens are bought with real money.

    But you and everyone else seems to miss that point.
    Emphasis on the big point here.
    The usage of the word you.

    You, being a single person.
    YOU are able to buy the mount with just gold, because that is all YOU are using. It doesn't matter if someone else paid money for the token, because they are not you.

    Which was the original quote from Felplague, that it's possible to buy it with gold. Not that "no one is spending money on it". Not that "it's in the game on a vendor". Just that you, as a player, can use your gold to get the mount.

    Which is what makes this pretty funny honestly, because the entire debate becomes a strawman from you.

  6. #526
    Elemental Lord
    Join Date
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    South Africa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    *The issue of optional cosmetic things*

    This is usually a thing that people brush off and do not care about in a lot of other games and even sub based games like FFXIV which is seeing major success despite having quite a large cash shop (though people have to understand that 90% of the things in that cash shop are event items that are no longer available).

    The reason people take issue with it in WoW and not in other games is because of the general current state of the game. Despite personal preferences, the general consensus right now is that the game is not in a good place and it can be seen also through remarks on social platforms that appeal to larger more casual audiences compared to forums which host smaller, more hardcore communities (eg; facebook comments, youtube like/dislike ratios etc).
    Because the game is not in a good state, blizzard releasing yet another shop mount is regarded as incredibly negative. It could literally be taking a fraction of their resources and might be completely irrelevant to the ongoing development of the game but as a PR move its still a very weird one as the average person just sees that their focus is entirely different to what people would expect after patches with 9 month delays or patches with 0 content like 9.1.5 which contain things that could literally be hotfixed into the game, smartly articulated in a way that looks like a content patch.
    When a game is doing well, cash shop cosmetics/mounts are not a huge issue nowadays and I hope blizzard can pull their heads out of their asses and do some proper PR management and handling as well as get back on track on their games.
    I think this is a nice explanation as to why those who are vocal about this issue make a big fuss.

    That being said, I don't think Blizzard's choice to release another mount is that weird. It is what I would do in their situation. Ultimately this boils to a question of what poses the most risk to their product and personally I reckon that releasing the mount is a much lower risk. Here is why:
    • The people most likely to take issue with this mount are those already disillusioned with the game;
    • Even if there was no shop mount, they would probably still be moaning about something;
    • So the likelihood of this mount making things worse than they already are is minimal;
    • Choosing to not release the mount guarantees that they lose out on that revenue.

    Honestly, with all the other shit going on at Blizzard, the last thing they want is to be telling their shareholders/investors that they are reluctant to use the shop to generate revenue for the game. People can moan as much as they want on social media, but at the end of the day, money talks a lot louder. Good PR is of course highly desirable, but survival depends on being able to make money.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    So I will admit when I read your post this morning I had just woke up, had no coffee, and was still sleepy. However I have fixed all that and I decided to have my work associates read your post as well. So let me past a snippet from your post

    In short, the shop gives Blizzard plenty of incentive to keep investing in the game and produce great content.


    With that and SEEING YOUR WORDS, my original post will stay the same and my question still stands.
    All I take from that is that you have issues with reading comprehension. Also I think you're a liar. Who the hell gets work associates to read the shit you're posting on MMO-C?

    So to answer your question in the simplest terms I know: I NEVER said that they succeed in producing great content. There is a big difference between having an incentive to do something and actually achieving it.

    The implication of this is that the reason for their failure is not the shop at all and that, in all likelihood, without the shop the game would be in even worse shape (irrespective of how you feel about the state of the game as it is now).

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