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  1. #1
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Dark Sentinel: Ranged Tank concept 2021

    Dark Sentinel
    Dark Ranger Tank Concept


    Dark Ranger with Spirits of Vengeance
    art by: Gantzu https://www.deviantart.com/gantzu/ar...ells-828292314

    Introduction

    The Dark Sentinel is a ranged tank concept designed for a possible Dark Ranger class. This concept utilizes abilities and concepts from WC3, WoW, and HotS and is based largely on the concept of Sylvanas as a leader and Warchief that stays in the front lines of conflicts. Because of this, it is only fitting for a class based upon her character to possess a role that allows the class to lead a raid.

    The justification for a ranged tank spec is that it fits the character and the Dark Ranger class. Sylvanas utilizes multiple forms of Shadow magic, and her undead nature allows her to be highly resilient to many forms of damage. Sylvanas' shadow magic has been shown to be able to absorb many types of damage and in the process empower her. In addition, her banshee abilities allow her to become incorporeal, and allows objects to pass through her while she deals damage to those around her. These concepts can be easily utilized for a tanking role. While some class creators tend to give a possible Dark Ranger tanking spec dual blades or a Warden style spec, I believe that keeping the spec ranged would be the best route to go. Not only will this give a possible Dark Ranger class a novel way to tank, but it will also separate it mechanically from other tanks.

    Basics and Core Abilities

    Ghost Step
    Art by: Livia Prima https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xzYVdm

    Class Basics:
    Races: All (Undead)
    Armor: Mail
    Weapons: Bows, XBows, Guns
    Resources: Mana and Hatred

    Hatred


    Hatred is a secondary resource that is generated by your abilities and by the damage you take. The maximum level of hatred will allow you access to very powerful abilities that can alter the course of a battle. However, you must use your hatred wisely and strategically, because if you use all of it at once for the wrong ability, it can be quite difficult to restore.

    Abilities that use Hatred:
    Withering Fire
    Dusk
    Volley of Hatred

    Abilities that generate Hatred:
    Arrow Vulcan
    Black Arrow
    Meridian Shot
    Bone Arrow
    Banshee's Wail

    The core ability that allows the Dark Ranger to tank from ranged is based on the WC3 ability Vengeance. Vengeance acts as a barrier between an enemy and the player, and is completely under the latter's control. While the enemy is attacking the Avatar of Vengeance in melee range, the Dark Ranger is free to attack at range with its attacks.

    Vengeance

    Avatar of Vengeance

    Vengeance: Summons a powerful avatar of vengeance under the command of the Dark Ranger that protects her and her allies from harm.

    Vengeance Abilities:

    Shroud: (passive) While the avatar is active, the Dark Ranger takes reduced damage.
    Menace (passive) While active, the avatar generates a great deal of threat, and any threat generated by the Dark Ranger is transferred to the avatar.
    Shadowy Inertia (passive) Your Shadow-based attacks that pass through the avatar of vengeance increases their damage.
    Dark Ritual (passive) 5% of Healing done to the dark ranger and 5% of magical damage done by the Dark Ranger also heals the avatar.
    Spirit of Vengeance (passive) The avatar has a chance of summoning up to three corpses that aid it in battle. When the avatar is killed, or when the Dark Ranger merges with the avatar, these corpses will instantly vanish.
    Shared Pain (passive) A percentage of the damage done to the avatar is shared to the Dark Ranger.

    Notes:
    1. When the avatar dies, the Dark Ranger can instantly teleport to its location, even if Merged Spirits was on cooldown.
    2. When the avatar dies, the Dark Ranger loses a significant portion of its damage mitigation and damage potential.
    3. When the avatar dies, a cooldown should initiate until the avatar can be summoned again. This should be determined via balance.

    Dark Ranger Abilities

    Withering Fire

    Arrow Vulcan: Quickly fires a shadow arrow at a target. Critical damage reduces the cast time of Black Arrow. (3 charges, 6 second recharge time).
    Black Arrow: (1.5 cast) Deals shadow damage to the target, chaining them to their current location, slowing their movement speed for X seconds.
    Withering Fire: Become a rampaging spirit, increasing your damage reduction by 80% and launching a volley of Shadow empowered arrows at a target. Each arrow dealing critical Shadow damage to your target. 6 second duration. (Requires full Hatred meter).
    Dusk: Transfers your current level of Hatred to your avatar of vengeance, healing it for 200% and restoring your mana for 50% of the your current amount of Hatred.
    Volley of Hatred: Absorbs your hatred, instantly recharging Arrow Vulcan and granting it 2 more charges, reducing its recharge time by 50%, and increasing its critical chance by X%. While active, Arrow Vulcan's attack is spread to all targets within 8 yards of the initial target at reduced damage and critical strike chance. Arrow Vulcan does not generate Hatred while VoH is active. Lasts 12 seconds. (Requires full Hatred meter)
    Meridian Shot: Deals Shadow damage to its initial target. If damage done is critical, the damage erupts and deals reduced damage to all targets within 8 yards.
    Blood Shot: Deals Physical damage to all targets in a line, healing the Dark Ranger for a portion of the damage done.
    Shadow Dagger: Throws a dagger at a target, infecting them with a dark plague which deals shadow damage over time, healing the Dark Ranger. The plague then jumps to 2 additional targets, dealing reduced damage and a reduced duration of the dark plague. If a target dies from the effects of Shadow Dagger, the cooldown is reset.
    Haunting Wave: Sends forth a wave of banshees dealing damage to all targets in it's path. (30 sec CD)
    Ghost Step: The Dark Ranger dashes 20 feet in the direction they're currently moving in. During Haunting Wave, the Dark Ranger will teleport to the location of their banshees regardless of the current direction of their movement.
    Banshee's Wail: Let's out a shrill scream at a target, interrupting spells, and removing a buff effect on the target. If a spell is interrupted or a buff removed, the Dark Ranger generates Hatred.

    Cooldowns:

    Bone Quiver: Sacrifices a Spirit of Vengeance to create a Bone Quiver equipped with up to 9 bone arrows (3 per spirit) that deal physical damage and do not cost resources. While active, the quiver increases the Dark Ranger's armor by 15% (5% per spirit). The quiver lasts for 10 minutes, or until the last arrow is fired. Bone Arrows generate Hatred based on a high percentage of their damage. The Avatar of Vengeance cannot summon the lost spirits while the quiver is active. (5 min CD)
    Summon Phantasm: (Cooldown) Summons a powerful apparition that slowly restores the Dark Ranger's mana over its duration. In addition, it increases the power of Dark Ritual by 2% during its duration. Lasts 8 seconds. (3 min. CD)
    Mana Tap: Sacrifice a sizable portion of your mana to instantly heal you for 200% of the mana used. (2.5 min CD)
    Will of the Forsaken: Absorb the shadows around you, reducing damage taken by 10% for 8 seconds. Healing from Bloodshot and Shadow Dagger is doubled for the duration. (1.5 minute CD)

    Vengeance Control abilities:

    The following abilities are used by the player to directly control the avatar of vengeance:

    Merged Souls: The Dark Ranger teleports to the avatar's location and merges with it, increasing movement speed by 10% for 8 seconds. If the Dark Ranger activates the avatar for 15 seconds after Merged Souls, the Dark Ranger will leap backwards 20 ft.
    Spirit Lock: (toggle) The avatar will follow the lateral movements of the Dark Ranger. Untoggle this ability, and the avatar will remain stationary.
    Dark Locus: Move the avatar to a specified location. When Dark Locus is used, the avatar's movement is increased by 10% to the new location.

    Final Thoughts and thanks:

    Disclaimers:

    1. If you absolutely hate the idea of a ranged tank, please don't respond to this thread.
    2. If you have some ideas to make this concept better, I'm all ear, and I appreciate it.
    3. I am under no illusions that Blizzard would utilize this concept. However, if they choose to, they're more than welcome to use any concept showcased here.
    4. If I have time, I will develop talents, and possibly another couple of specs to create an entire Dark Ranger concept. However, that is unlikely at this time due to my work load.
    5. This is all for fun, so please don't take this too seriously. The main goal of this post is to generate a positive discussion.

    Thank you for checking out this concept. Hopefully you enjoy it and it sparks some conversation about the potential of ranged tanks in this game. I also hope that this gives Dark Ranger fans another possible specialization to consider for their class. Special thanks to Wowhead, Blizzard, and the various artists whose art I used for this thread. I tried to credit all the ones I had names for. Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    More like a pet tank, since you're basically controlling another unit that is supposed to draw aggro for you.

    A seriously fleshed out pet tanking spec would be very interesting. It's sad that the MMO genre has existed for... what? 25 years now? And pretty much no game to my knowledge seriously tried it out, and at this point WoW is the only game that could feasibly try it (the game is still being developed, and the game is responsive enough that micromanaging a pet is feasible). The Dark Ranger also has pretty strong flavor to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This idea also seems like it'd be engaging to play with the lining up your abilities to pass through the avatar, like a hero in a MOBA lining up skillshots. Lots of emphasis on movement and positioning.

  3. #3
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Now that I think about it, this class could be really strong on certain fights, as the tank would be able to stack with the rest of the DPS far away from the boss, while the boss was fighting the Avatar. Merging with the Avatar could also be used as a teleport across the room, which could come in handy. I wonder if on say, the Siegecrafter Blackfuse fight, the Dark Ranger could go with the DPS on the conveyor belt to take out the inventions, and then use Merged Souls to teleport right back to the boss (while the rest of the Conveyor Belt group has to spend like 10-15 seconds travelling back to engage the boss).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    why even have a ranged tank? everything that can melee is just going to run up to you anyways...
    More variety in playstyles is healthy for the game. WoW hasn't had a substantially new playstyle added to it since the introduction of battle healers with the MoP Mistweaver (affectionately known as the Fistweaver), which was almost a decade ago.

    I've yawned at many class concepts over the years, and I'm not really into the Dark Ranger aesthetic, but this class idea is just conceptually interesting and I'd be interested in trying it.

  4. #4
    there are so many problems with pet tanking and how it would function in wows combat I don't even know where to start. And this idea addresses pretty much none of them.

    Things like tank debuffs and which target needs to be healed, functionality of the shade dying and being brought back, rapid and/or accurate boss movement. Now im not against pet tanking but it has problems that need to be addressed, and these are core issues that you can't handwave off until later in design.

  5. #5
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    rapid and/or accurate boss movement
    One possible solution is to have the Avatar be "aimed", like when you hop into a vehicle like a machine gun which you can aim by moving your camera. So for this class, maybe you press an ability and a reticle extends like 30 feet in front of your character, and your Avatar will move towards it's position. That way you can quickly and accurately move the Avatar without having to use the traditional target AoE (that could be another option too. It would be pretty easy to bind the pet "Move To" button and just click where you want it to go.

  6. #6
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    why even have a ranged tank? everything that can melee is just going to run up to you anyways...
    The avatar should ideally act as a barrier between you and the target. Acting much like Hunter or Warlock pets do, which tank the enemy while the Warlock or Hunter kill the target from range while solo leveling.

    I believe if designed correctly, you could have expert players stay at range the ENTIRE boss fight, whereas less skilled players would have to merge with the avatar more frequently.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Now that I think about it, this class could be really strong on certain fights, as the tank would be able to stack with the rest of the DPS far away from the boss, while the boss was fighting the Avatar. Merging with the Avatar could also be used as a teleport across the room, which could come in handy. I wonder if on say, the Siegecrafter Blackfuse fight, the Dark Ranger could go with the DPS on the conveyor belt to take out the inventions, and then use Merged Souls to teleport right back to the boss (while the rest of the Conveyor Belt group has to spend like 10-15 seconds travelling back to engage the boss).

    - - - Updated - - -



    More variety in playstyles is healthy for the game. WoW hasn't had a substantially new playstyle added to it since the introduction of battle healers with the MoP Mistweaver (affectionately known as the Fistweaver), which was almost a decade ago.

    I've yawned at many class concepts over the years, and I'm not really into the Dark Ranger aesthetic, but this class idea is just conceptually interesting and I'd be interested in trying it.
    Thank you! I'm glad you liked the concept.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    there are so many problems with pet tanking and how it would function in wows combat I don't even know where to start. And this idea addresses pretty much none of them.

    Things like tank debuffs and which target needs to be healed
    You heal the Dark Ranger. It has a passive and multiple abilities that heals the Avatar. In fact, the more a healer heals the DR, the more the DR heals the avatar.

    functionality of the shade dying and being brought back,
    Whoops! Forgot about that part. I will edit the OP immediately.

    rapid and/or accurate boss movement. Now im not against pet tanking but it has problems that need to be addressed, and these are core issues that you can't handwave off until later in design.
    Merged Souls, Dark Locus, and Spirit Lock should handle that.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    One possible solution is to have the Avatar be "aimed", like when you hop into a vehicle like a machine gun which you can aim by moving your camera. So for this class, maybe you press an ability and a reticle extends like 30 feet in front of your character, and your Avatar will move towards it's position. That way you can quickly and accurately move the Avatar without having to use the traditional target AoE (that could be another option too. It would be pretty easy to bind the pet "Move To" button and just click where you want it to go.
    and this comes with mitigation problems or wall hugging problems, can the avatar back peddle? Does it just not parry/dodge/block? Does the Avatar have movement abilities to make it faster to get away from mechanics? Does it just need to be perma 200% movement speed? Does that result in perma kiting scenarios where the player feeds threat and the tank can kite the boss forever?

  8. #8
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    can the avatar back peddle?
    Tilt the camera towards the ground to aim the reticle closer, which the avatar will follow. Or use spirit lock and just walk backwards or to the side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    Does the Avatar have movement abilities to make it faster to get away from mechanics?
    For stuff like Aggramar's five hit combo where you have to aim the boss towards the raid and then away from it within a few seconds, this could be achieved by either being good at aiming, or if you're not good at aiming, you could either use the Spirit Lock ability or just merge with the Avatar to manually position it as if you were a normal tank.

    Does the Avatar have movement abilities to make it faster to get away from mechanics?
    A movement speed buff would be nice, could be a talent.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Tilt the camera towards the ground to aim the reticle closer, which the avatar will follow. Or use spirit lock and just walk backwards or to the side.



    For stuff like Aggramar's five hit combo where you have to aim the boss towards the raid and then away from it within a few seconds, this could be achieved by either being good at aiming, or if you're not good at aiming, you could either use the Spirit Lock ability or just merge with the Avatar to manually position it as if you were a normal tank.



    A movement speed buff would be nice, could be a talent.
    The answer to most movements being to jsut eyes of the beast the avatar is not going to feel good. Its either clunky and and leaves your actual char open to getting molested by raid mechanics while you essentially just become what every other tank is by default. The projecting aim through your avatar pretty much means you need to be behind it to interact that way while performing your rotation. Fights like council in CN now have both you and your avatar being cleaved by the tank mechanic just so you can properly aim his dash. There is such a HUGE skill ceiling and floor put on how this tank would have to perform to get even menial boss done properly they would be completely unwelcome by the pug community, OR they compensation they would get to make this system easily workable would probably result in them being insanely overtuned for organized high end play.

  10. #10
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    that sounds like a nightmare for healers... fuck pets...
    Why would it be a nightmare for healers? They can't directly heal the avatar. It's the healers job to keep the DR alive, and it's the DR's job to keep the Avatar (aka it's mitigation) alive. I currently set the healing going to the avatar from the DR's heals (which includes DR's self healing and magical damage) to 5%. If that is viewed as insufficient through playstesting, Blizzard could just increase those percentages.

  11. #11
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    so... either something that's overpowered as hell or that can be discarded because it's shit...
    .....or balanced through consistent play testing from devs and players, just like every other new mechanic in the game.

  12. #12
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    One amusing thought is that you would have three tanking classes with an acronym that starts with the same letter of "D". People get "DK" and "DH" mixed up, and now you're going to have a "DR". Or "DS" if you go with Dark Sentinel.

  13. #13
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    this kind of shit never turns out balanced...
    Oh sure it does. Yeah, new classes come in OP, but eventually over time they settle into the standard class balance.

    Again, you're basically just complaining about numbers. If the DR isn't getting enough healing to keep it's avatar up, you tune it up. If the opposite is happening and the DR is having an easy time keeping the avatar up, you tune in down.

    It's simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    One amusing thought is that you would have three tanking classes with an acronym that starts with the same letter of "D". People get "DK" and "DH" mixed up, and now you're going to have a "DR". Or "DS" if you go with Dark Sentinel.
    It's really crazy that I never thought of that.....

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Dark Sentinel
    Dark Ranger Tank Concept


    art by: Gantzu https://www.deviantart.com/gantzu/ar...ells-828292314

    Introduction

    The Dark Sentinel is a ranged tank concept designed for a possible Dark Ranger class. This concept utilizes abilities and concepts from WC3, WoW, and HotS and is based largely on the concept of Sylvanas as a leader and Warchief that stays in the front lines of conflicts. Because of this, it is only fitting for a class based upon her character to possess a role that allows the class to lead a raid.

    The justification for a ranged tank spec is that it fits the character and the Dark Ranger class. Sylvanas utilizes multiple forms of Shadow magic, and her undead nature allows her to be highly resilient to many forms of damage. Sylvanas' shadow magic has been shown to be able to absorb many types of damage and in the process empower her. In addition, her banshee abilities allow her to become incorporeal, and allows objects to pass through her while she deals damage to those around her. These concepts can be easily utilized for a tanking role. While some class creators tend to give a possible Dark Ranger tanking spec dual blades or a Warden style spec, I believe that keeping the spec ranged would be the best route to go. Not only will this give a possible Dark Ranger class a novel way to tank, but it will also separate it mechanically from other tanks.

    Basics and Core Abilities

    Merged Souls
    Art by: Livia Prima https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xzYVdm

    Class Basics:
    Races: All (Undead)
    Armor: Mail
    Weapons: Bows, XBows, Guns
    Resources: Mana and Hatred

    Hatred


    Hatred is a secondary resource that is generated by your abilities and by the damage you take. The maximum level of hatred will allow you access to very powerful abilities that can alter the course of a battle. However, you must use your hatred wisely and strategically, because if you use all of it at once for the wrong ability, it can be quite difficult to restore.

    Abilities that use Hatred:
    Withering Fire
    Dusk
    Ghost Step

    Abilities that generate Hatred:
    Black Arrow
    Meridian Shot
    Shadow Dagger
    Banshee's Wail

    The core ability that allows the Dark Ranger to tank from ranged is based on the WC3 ability Vengeance. Vengeance acts as a barrier between an enemy and the player, and is completely under the latter's control. While the enemy is attacking the Avatar of Vengeance in melee range, the Dark Ranger is free to attack at range with its attacks.

    Vengeance

    Avatar of Vengeance

    Vengeance: Summons a powerful avatar of vengeance under the command of the Dark Ranger that protects her and her allies from harm.

    Vengeance Abilities:

    Shroud: (passive) While the avatar is active, the Dark Ranger takes reduced damage.
    Menace (passive) While active, the avatar generates a great deal of threat, and any threat generated by the Dark Ranger is transferred to the avatar.
    Shadowy Inertia (passive) Your Shadow-based attacks that pass through the avatar of vengeance increases their damage.
    Dark Ritual (passive) 5% of Healing done to the dark ranger and 5% of magical damage done by the Dark Ranger also heals the avatar.
    Spirit of Vengeance (passive) The avatar has a chance of summoning up to three spirits that aid it in battle. When the avatar is killed, or when the Dark Ranger merges with the avatar, these spirits instantly vanish.
    Shared Pain (passive) A percentage of the damage done to the avatar is shared to the Dark Ranger.

    Notes:
    1. When the avatar dies, the Dark Ranger can instantly teleport to its location, even if Merged Spirits was on cooldown.
    2. When the avatar dies, the Dark Ranger loses a significant portion of its damage mitigation and damage potential.
    3. When the avatar dies, a cooldown should initiate until the avatar can be summoned again. This should be determined via balance.

    Dark Ranger Abilities

    Withering Fire

    Black Arrow: (1.5 cast) Deals shadow damage to the target, chaining them to their current location, slowing their movement speed for X seconds.
    Withering Fire: Become a rampaging spirit, increasing your damage reduction by 80% and launching a volley of Shadow empowered arrows at a target. Each arrow dealing critical Shadow damage to your target. 6 second duration. (Requires full Hatred meter).
    Dusk: Transfers your current level of Hatred to your avatar of vengeance, healing it for 200% of the your current amount.
    Meridian Shot: Deals Shadow damage to its initial target. If damage done is critical, the damage erupts and deals reduced damage to all targets within 8 yards.
    Blood Shot: Deals Physical damage to all targets in a line, healing the Dark Ranger for a portion of the damage done.
    Shadow Dagger: Throws a dagger at a target, infecting them with a dark plague which deals shadow damage over time. The plague then jumps to 2 additional targets, dealing reduced damage and a reduced duration of the dark plague. If a target dies from the effects of Shadow Dagger, the Dark Ranger gains Hatred for a % of the total damage done.
    Summon Phantasm: (Cooldown) Summons a powerful apparition that slowly restores the Dark Ranger's mana over its duration. In addition, it increases the power of Dark Ritual by 2% during its duration. Lasts 8 seconds. (2 min. CD)
    Haunting Wave: Sends forth a wave of banshees dealing damage to all targets in it's path. (30 sec CD)
    Ghost Step During Haunting Wave, the Dark Ranger will teleport to the location of their banshees. After teleport, the Dark Ranger's damage and ability to dodge is increased by a considerable amount. The power and duration of this effect is determined by the current amount of Hatred.
    Banshee's Wail: Let's out a shrill scream at a target, interrupting spells, and removing a buff effect on the target. If a spell is interrupted or a buff removed, the Dark Ranger generates Hatred.

    Vengeance Control abilities:

    The following abilities are used by the player to directly control the avatar of vengeance:

    Merged Souls: The Dark Ranger teleports to the avatar's location and merges with it, increasing movement speed by 10% for 8 seconds. If the Dark Ranger activates the avatar for 15 seconds after Merged Souls, the Dark Ranger will leap backwards 20 ft.
    Spirit Lock: (toggle) The avatar will follow the lateral movements of the Dark Ranger. Untoggle this ability, and the avatar will remain stationary.
    Dark Locus: Move the avatar to a specified location

    Final Thoughts and thanks:

    Disclaimers:

    1. If you absolutely hate the idea of a ranged tank, please don't respond to this thread.
    2. If you have some ideas to make this concept better, I'm all ear, and I appreciate it.
    3. I am under no illusions that Blizzard would utilize this concept. However, if they choose to, they're more than welcome to use any concept showcased here.
    4. If I have time, I will develop talents, and possibly another couple of specs to create an entire Dark Ranger concept. However, that is unlikely at this time due to my work load.
    5. This is all for fun, so please don't take this too seriously. The main goal of this post is to generate a positive discussion.

    Thank you for checking out this concept. Hopefully you enjoy it and it sparks some conversation about the potential of ranged tanks in this game. I also hope that this gives Dark Ranger fans another possible specialization to consider for their class. Special thanks to Wowhead, Blizzard, and the various artists whose art I used for this thread. I tried to credit all the ones I had names for. Thanks for reading.
    First of all, I deeply love this concept not only because it's based on my dream class, but because you've just proven that Dark Rangers can easily be distinct from hunters and have flavor beyond that of Ranger or archer. Thank you so much for all the thought and effort you've put into this. I never thought tanking could be a role served by the Dark Ranger. I didn't think it'd make sense, but you've proven me wrong and explained why it does make sense in an interesting way. Another spec besides damage and tanking could be healing via dark magic like Shadow Priests can. Also remember the banshee unit you could become during the Darkshore warfront? Her main focus was healing. Of course there's probably less support for a Dark Ranger healing spec than a tanking spec.
    Good Bye.

  15. #15
    To over powered in PVE, So many fights would have to be resigned like denathrius. Also In pvp it would be unstoppable. So This would never happen

  16. #16
    How do you adress the balancing issues with having a pet tank without any active abilities. As well as you now have a tank that has to deal with melee abilities AND ranged abilities.

    Seems like it's either going to be too good or just unviable. It's a lot harder for DR tank in this concept...so you have to make up for it, but then if they are good it can become broken. Especially when it sounds like it's just a dps with a pet tank.

    Ranged tank isn't viable in wow in my eyes. It works as a outdoor tank for the player itself like a voidwalker. But not for raiding.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2021-11-02 at 02:30 PM.

  17. #17
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by datguy81 View Post
    To over powered in PVE, So many fights would have to be resigned like denathrius. Also In pvp it would be unstoppable. So This would never happen
    In heavy movement fights, you have Merged Souls, Spirit Lock, and Dark Locus.

    In PvP, players would just target the Dark Ranger and not even bother with the avatar. In addition, if the tank proved too strong, Blizzard could balance it around its PvP talents.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    How do you adress the balancing issues with having a pet tank without any active abilities. As well as you now have a tank that has to deal with melee abilities AND ranged abilities.
    Why would there be balancing issues because the "pet" has no active abilities?

    In terms of melee abilities, that should be relieved by the avatar. Ranged abilities will have to be dealt with by the player. That said, I do agree that this tank would be more difficult to play than other tanks. However, there are players that would welcome a challenge since it offers a new way to tank.

    Seems like it's either going to be too good or just unviable. It's a lot harder for DR tank in this concept...so you have to make up for it, but then if they are good it can become broken. Especially when it sounds like it's just a dps with a pet tank.
    That's what play testing is for. If it's too good, simply adjust the numbers.

  18. #18
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    ... Please stop, Teriz. Just... please stop.

    Ranged tanking does not work in WoW. What you described is nothing but an overcomplicated and needlessly complex melee tanking at worst, pet tanking at best.

    There is zero advantage to bringing a melee tank to any of the fights in the game if your idea existed. Because all the melee tanks take damage from the boss' attacks. Your tank just stays at range laughing their ass off and taking zero damage even if their shade dies. Which leads me to another thing: if the melee tanks' life bar reaches zero, they die, and require a battle rez. Your ranged tank idea? Just needs to re-summon their shade. It doesn't even take any damage.

    Your idea makes all the present tanks completely obsolete.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    1. If you absolutely hate the idea of a ranged tank, please don't respond to this thread.
    This is a public forum, not an echo chamber. If you're putting ideas forth into this forum, it's fair game to criticize them. Also, "positive discussion" does not mean "discussion free of criticisms".
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  19. #19
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    ... Please stop, Teriz. Just... please stop.

    Ranged tanking does not work in WoW. What you described is nothing but an overcomplicated and needlessly complex melee tanking at worst, pet tanking at best.

    There is zero advantage to bringing a melee tank to any of the fights in the game if your idea existed. Because all the melee tanks take damage from the boss' attacks. Your tank just stays at range laughing their ass off and taking zero damage even if their shade dies. Which leads me to another thing: if the melee tanks' life bar reaches zero, they die, and require a battle rez. Your ranged tank idea? Just needs to re-summon their shade. It doesn't even take any damage.
    Actually the avatar has a passive ability where the damage it takes is shared with the Dark Ranger;

    Shared Pain (passive) A percentage of the damage done to the avatar is shared to the Dark Ranger.
    So no, the Dark Ranger wouldn't be sitting back laughing their arse off. They need to pay attention to the health of their avatar as well as their own health, because it is being affected by the boss' attacks on the avatar.

    Finally, yes if a melee tank's life bar reaches zero, they die. The avatar and the Dark Ranger separately wouldn't have the HP or armor level of a melee tank. However, combined, they should be in about that range.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Banshee View Post
    First of all, I deeply love this concept not only because it's based on my dream class, but because you've just proven that Dark Rangers can easily be distinct from hunters and have flavor beyond that of Ranger or archer. Thank you so much for all the thought and effort you've put into this. I never thought tanking could be a role served by the Dark Ranger. I didn't think it'd make sense, but you've proven me wrong and explained why it does make sense in an interesting way. Another spec besides damage and tanking could be healing via dark magic like Shadow Priests can. Also remember the banshee unit you could become during the Darkshore warfront? Her main focus was healing. Of course there's probably less support for a Dark Ranger healing spec than a tanking spec.
    Thank you. I decided to use Dark Rangers because they had a bit more established flavor for this concept than other concepts. Also I feel that Dark Ranger advocates struggle to come up with interesting spec concepts and tend to fall into a DW melee tank, which could be cool, but with Demon Hunters on the scene, is rather redundant. Players are excited about new ways to play, and with a little creativity, a think a ranged tank could definitely be something offered for the playerbase.

    A healing DR spec would be very interesting. I do believe that players would HIGHLY welcome a Dark Ranger class that offers tanking and healing alongside a new ranged DPS spec.

    Glad you enjoyed the read. Please feel free to offer suggestions. I also added some more abilities to the concept. Let me know what you think.

  20. #20
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually the avatar has a passive ability where the damage it takes is shared with the Dark Ranger;

    So no, the Dark Ranger wouldn't be sitting back laughing their arse off. They need to pay attention to the health of their avatar as well as their own health, because it is being affected by the boss' attacks on the avatar.
    A percentage? So not full damage? Well, the ranged tank would still be laughing their asses off because while melee tanks take full damage, the ranged tank only takes partial damage.

    What percentage is this? 10% of the damage? 90% of the damage? And again: a melee tank dying means a battle-rez would have to be used, and those are in limited supply in a fight. If a dark ranger's shade dies? All that is needed to do is to re-summon it, saving a battle-rez. That along is over-powered. It would be over-powered even if the DR had a very limited amount of times they can re-summon their shade in a fight, because that still means battle-rezes are being saved to use on other players.

    And then we have the unnecessary and overly complicated micromanaging of your shade. Bosses need to be properly positioned. The tanks also need to be properly positioned. That means the dark ranger would have to worry about their shade's positioning while also worrying about their own since they have to now worry about ranged mechanics on top of melee mechanics.

    Imagine fights like Sludgefist in Castle Nathria, in which you as a ranged character loses control of your character for a couple seconds every so often? And remember how dungeon and raid bosses ignore pet taunts, and pets are immune to AE/cleave damage? And how would you move your shade? Stop doing abilities while you turn around to face the direction you want it to move?

    Finally, yes if a melee tank's life bar reaches zero, they die. The avatar and the Dark Ranger separately wouldn't have the HP or armor level of a melee tank. However, combined, they should be in about that range.
    ... Armor does not work that way. If a dark ranger has half a melee tank's armor, having a shade with the same armor value as the dark ranger does not mean both have the combined armor of a melee tank. It only means both have half the armor of a melee tank, because "shared damage" ignores armor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

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