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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    So we are in agreement then that Missouri is a southern state? Just because it has two big cities, which are heavily liberal, as are most big cities, doesn't make it not a southern state. If that were the case, then every state in the south wouldn't be southern.
    What makes it not a Southern State is the US Census stating it's a MidWestern State.

    Rozz already linked a website with the Image...but here it is again:


  2. #102
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    So we are in agreement then that Missouri is a southern state? Just because it has two big cities, which are heavily liberal, as are most big cities, doesn't make it not a southern state. If that were the case, then every state in the south wouldn't be southern.
    No because you can't point to the thinnest sliver of the bottom half of the state w/ a population that doesn't represent even a third it and go: "they're all southern"...

    I'm sorry that most the state, the state's government, and the federal government don't agree w/ you and your family. Note that I'm not saying that Missouri isn't more conservative (even the liberal parts tbh), but it's not Southern. It has historical backing of Southern states, but that doesn't represent what the state is today.

    I'm just pointing out we're clearly nothing like Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, or Alabama. If it was just on the metric you're using I'm sure they would've been quick to actually place us there. And I'll drop it here bc I'll never agree due to my own experiences living across the state and I don't want to derail.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2021-11-05 at 06:55 PM.
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  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    What makes it not a Southern State is the US Census stating it's a MidWestern State.

    Rozz already linked a website with the Image...but here it is again:

    I mean okay? I linked one that had Missouri in the south, because they were part of the confederacy, which is what most people use to determine whether or not a state is southern.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    I mean okay? I linked one that had Missouri in the south, because they were part of the confederacy, which is what most people use to determine whether or not a state is southern.
    I would think that the US census is a more authoratative source than an un-sourced claim of what "most people" use.

    And if the source you are using is the one you linked earlier:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie

    Well, even that one is pretty soft on including MO as a "Southern State"



    Dark red indicates the states almost always included in modern-day definitions of Dixie, red – often times included (see Southern United States for the U.S. Census definition), while light red – often included due to their historic connections to the South. Tan - Not considered Southern States but tied to them and/or have a significant minority of Southerners
    MO is in the light red...so, the best on offer there is "often"

    And

    As a definite geographic location within the United States, Dixie is usually defined as the eleven Southern states that seceded from the United States of America in late 1860 and early 1861 to form the new Confederate States of America, listed below in order of secession:

    South Carolina
    Mississippi
    Florida
    Alabama
    Georgia
    Louisiana
    Texas
    Virginia
    Arkansas
    North Carolina
    Tennessee
    I don't see Missouri listed in there...do you?

  5. #105
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I would think that the US census is a more authoratative source than an un-sourced claim of what "most people" use.

    And if the source you are using is the one you linked earlier:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie

    Well, even that one is pretty soft on including MO as a "Southern State"





    MO is in the light red...so, the best on offer there is "often"

    And



    I don't see Missouri listed in there...do you?
    It's not worth it, they just want to be right. Only ~1/3rd of the state's pop is rural, even less than that would identify/be culturally southern and none of that invalidates the reality of what makes these regional blocks in the first place. In relation to the thread topic Missouri wouldn't go "south" bc the south of then doesn't exist anymore and if they'd try to pull it everything would collapse. The states would fragment and the conservative parts would likely be harassed by outside forces while the liberal ones try their best to re-connect to the "north".

    It'd be a huge mess for everyone involved with more internal "warfare" than state vs state battles. It'd be a disaster.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2021-11-05 at 07:19 PM.
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  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    It's not worth it, they just want to be right.
    I know, I just love how even his own source that he's using to validate his position is, at best, like "well, kinda"

  7. #107
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    So...no one wants to point out that map would also have us calling Maryland a southern state?
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I would think that the US census is a more authoratative source than an un-sourced claim of what "most people" use.

    And if the source you are using is the one you linked earlier:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie

    Well, even that one is pretty soft on including MO as a "Southern State"





    MO is in the light red...so, the best on offer there is "often"

    And



    I don't see Missouri listed in there...do you?
    Missouri got their seat in the Confederate congress later. Those were the founding states.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    So...no one wants to point out that map would also have us calling Maryland a southern state?
    Big parts of Maryland are very Southern culturally. And it’s south of the Mason Dixon line.

  9. #109
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    It's not worth it, they just want to be right. Only ~1/3rd of the state's pop is rural, even less than that would identify/be culturally southern and none of that invalidates the reality of what makes these regional blocks in the first place. In relation to the thread topic Missouri wouldn't go "south" bc the south of then doesn't exist anymore and if they'd try to pull it everything would collapse. The states would fragment and the conservative parts would likely be harassed by outside forces while the liberal ones try their best to re-connect to the "north".

    It'd be a huge mess for everyone involved with more internal "warfare" than state vs state battles. It'd be a disaster.
    I think the more concerning part is that conservatives are already starting to draw lines on the map for what might be considered "Sides" in a new civil war.

    IF Civil War ever broke out, it would more than likely be a bunch of rural based militias forming up into vans and unleashing coordinated attacks on urban centers. At that point it would be the national guard and the local police (plus any local military) vs the rural dissidents. Some police and service members might defect to the side of the dissidents, and the president at the time might even order the service to stand down, but I think there would be some fairly organized resistance to any militias.

    On top of all of that, we've seen that conservatives aren't really willing to risk their necks out there. There have been "Battle cries" for events such as Jan 6th and Occupy DC. The former actually had some minor impact but the latter promised millions of angry and armed conservatives and delivered about 200 old crazy people with campers. Ultimately, as I have explained to kokolums and anyone else frothing at the mouth for civil war, civil war will only happen when enough people are so angry and/or destitute that they're willing to say "fuck my existence" and be ready to die for the cause. As long as they have food, video games and HBO, that's going to keep them fat and lazy. History has shown that you either have to conscript people, draft them, give huge pay incentives, or hand a weapon to a hungry homeless person and tell them they'll get money, food, and eventually land if they fight for the cause. What entity has the money to do this, other than the government and billionaires?

    And if the president goes rogue, our systems of power should have the ability to stop him and remove his power. I believe even conservative law makers would say too far, because war is bad for the great majority of industries (The people who pay millions out to senators and congressmen in kickbacks) and only really good for the weapon industry.

    Political tensions being high does not mean civil war. It means riots and the occasional crazy conservative suicide gunman/bomber. Because nobody is providing the resources to form any real army.

    I think the current conservative strategy is to legislate themselves into power, slowly pushing the line as hard as they can in removing all social progression we've had in the last 50-100 years once they are able to.

    Bloody take overs only happen when your opposition is the minority, and the majority is too angry to look at their moral compass. Who out there is willing to kill their fellow man simply for having a different opinion? Not many that would fit in the "sane" category.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2021-11-05 at 08:11 PM.
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  10. #110
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I think the more concerning part is that conservatives are already starting to draw lines on the map for what might be considered "Sides" in a new civil war.

    IF Civil War ever broke out, it would more than likely be a bunch of rural based militias forming up into vans and unleashing coordinated attacks on urban centers. At that point it would be the national guard and the local police (plus any local military) vs the rural dissidents. Some police and service members might defect to the side of the dissidents, and the president at the time might even order the service to stand down, but I think there would be some fairly organized resistance to any militias.

    On top of all of that, we've seen that conservatives aren't really willing to risk their necks out there. There have been "Battle cries" for events such as Jan 6th and Occupy DC. The former actually had some minor impact but the latter promised millions of angry and armed conservatives and delivered about 200 old crazy people with campers. Ultimately, as I have explained to kokolums and anyone else frothing at the mouth for civil war, civil war will only happen when enough people are so angry and/or destitute that they're willing to say "fuck my existence" and be ready to die for the cause. As long as they have food, video games and HBO, that's going to keep them fat and lazy. History has shown that you either have to conscript people, draft them, give huge pay incentives, or hand a weapon to a hungry homeless person and tell them they'll get money, food, and eventually land if they fight for the cause. What entity has the money to do this, other than the government and billionaires?

    And if the president goes rogue, our systems of power should have the ability to stop him and remove his power. I believe even conservative law makers would say too far, because war is bad for the great majority of industries (The people who pay millions out to senators and congressmen in kickbacks) and only really good for the weapon industry.

    Political tensions being high does not mean civil war. It means riots and the occasional crazy conservative suicide gunman/bomber. Because nobody is providing the resources to form any real army.

    I think the current conservative strategy is to legislate themselves into power, slowly pushing the line as hard as they can in removing all social progression we've had in the last 50-100 years once they are able to.

    Bloody take overs only happen when your opposition is the minority, and the majority is too angry to look at their moral compass. Who out there is willing to kill their fellow man simply for having a different opinion? Not many that would fit in the "sane" category.
    This is pretty accurate. I have relatives (on my step fathers side) who would vote Trump again, but they wouldn't want a civil war. They don't want to kill anyone, they just think that they're protecting others (and liberals from themselves) in their own way.

    Killing people wouldn't fit that.

    As for left leaning crazies that want war, they're usually younger and are known to spout off more bs than they'll commit to.
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  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    This is pretty accurate. I have relatives (on my step fathers side) who would vote Trump again, but they wouldn't want a civil war. They don't want to kill anyone, they just think that they're protecting others (and liberals from themselves) in their own way.

    Killing people wouldn't fit that.

    As for left leaning crazies that want war, they're usually younger and are known to spout off more bs than they'll commit to.
    I have to overall agree here. I don’t really expect to see a full on civil war soon depending on how far the GOP push their luck in 2022 and 2024 with their suppression and disenfranchisement with the courts turning a blind eye. But outside of them going that level of rogue, I generally don’t see it.

    But as anecdotal as it is, I really wonder how long it will be till a few of the right wing loons I know make the news attempting stuff.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I have to overall agree here. I don’t really expect to see a full on civil war soon depending on how far the GOP push their luck in 2022 and 2024 with their suppression and disenfranchisement with the courts turning a blind eye. But outside of them going that level of rogue, I generally don’t see it.

    But as anecdotal as it is, I really wonder how long it will be till a few of the right wing loons I know make the news attempting stuff.
    It's really a matter of time before some right wing looney attacks a school to stop CRT or something.

  13. #113
    Elemental Lord Milchshake's Avatar
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    If you want to look into the deepest parts of the the American Id and what we all have in common. Ask Pornhub.


    10/2021

    So ya, Missouri defaults to the North.

    And sorry to any Neo Confederate soldiers that have to share a Foxhole with anyone from Tennessee. It's going to get weird.

  14. #114
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuerbisgeschmackShake View Post
    So ya, Missouri defaults to the North.

    And sorry to any Neo Confederate soldiers that have to share a Foxhole with anyone from Tennessee. It's going to get weird.
    Shame that map is fake, though.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    It's really a matter of time before some right wing looney attacks a school to stop CRT or something.
    Yeah, and my brother in law is one of those who would rather fight and die than admit he is wrong and literally called Democrats a bunch of devil worshiping liberals as his way to defend his double standard fearing the Democrats would pack the courts when I pointed out how the Republicans had literally just did it. He also is against critical race theory and thinks that Fauci worked with China to create COVID and the vaccine is some huge conspiracy to do something. And the list goes on and on with him. He is one of those who will lie, BS, and fight his way out of everything to avoid thinking his way through anything, consequences be damned to protect his pride.

    Then got another guy who can't tell the difference between a fact and an opinion and just goes down hill from there.

    Then got another who told me that science went against god, preached about how democrats were pedophiles while cheering Trump and Kavanaugh, and who's wife works at a hospital and has literally lied to a friend of ours telling him that the majority of the people in the hospital and who died from COVID were vaccinated and so on and so on.

    The one who can't tell the difference between a fact and opinion is largely safe, but the brother in law is a Trumper Trooper straight out the cult of Yall'Queda and can see him doing some crazy stuff while the jesus freak seems largely peaceful but part of me really wouldn't be surprised if he tried or one of those close to him.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  16. #116
    The Lightbringer theostrichsays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    I was really looking forward to the future nation state of Arklahomessee producing hits where Kevin James on his Segway picks up random soccer moms who are in need of medical aid, and drives them to the goth hospital. If that isn't an export to build an economy on, then nothing is.
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    Thank you for mansplaining how opinions work.
    Also you're wrong, the people who agree with you are wrong, and you're probably ugly.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I have to overall agree here. I don’t really expect to see a full on civil war soon depending on how far the GOP push their luck in 2022 and 2024 with their suppression and disenfranchisement with the courts turning a blind eye. But outside of them going that level of rogue, I generally don’t see it.

    But as anecdotal as it is, I really wonder how long it will be till a few of the right wing loons I know make the news attempting stuff.
    We won't actually see a literal full on civil war - that will never happen. What is becoming more and more likely is a slow slide to fascism civil-esque war. Where the minority right continues to erode our democracy and gains not just a majority, but some kind of super majority claim over the United States' political apparatus. At that point, with "legitimate" democratic control, the military forces will be "with" them, and it's over.

    The reasoning/perspective of Trump voters that @Rozz and others give are why it will be a soft civil war - no conflict.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Missouri got their seat in the Confederate congress later. Those were the founding states.
    Never said anything to the contrary, champ. Just saying that the wikipedia page for "Dixie" only includes MO in the softest of terms due to "historical ties". In terms of the US fucking Census... it's part of the MidWest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KuerbisgeschmackShake View Post
    If you want to look into the deepest parts of the the American Id and what we all have in common. Ask Pornhub.

    I've never searched "Goth Hospital" before... but that's all about to change.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Right before I saw this, I actually said out loud, "Does that say boats?"
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    Until then, I honestly don't care about anything else much. Until then it can all burn down to the ground for all I care.
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Yeah, I think it's fair to conclude that "Fuck the poor" "Arch-angel of Riots" is just in it with the hope of inflicting maximum harm for maximum chaos, and since they've shown no particular attachment to any guiding moral, ideological, or political principle, it seems to be for the sake of maximum fun.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Missouri got their seat in the Confederate congress later. Those were the founding states.
    The parts of the MO gov't (governor and minority of legislature) that joined the confederacy weren't in power by the time they did, and did so contra to MO's state constitution. MO provided soldiers to the union at nearly a 3:1 ratio compared to the confederacy. Even going strictly by participation in the civil war, MO is a northern state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Never said anything to the contrary, champ..
    You should have though.
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