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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    I think difficulty isn't really the core issue why you're against solo content providing better ilvl gear: I think deep down you know that you will not be able to ignore that solo content and feel forced to run it to get more gear for the content you actually like to run (raids or/and m+). You don't want that temptation.

    The thing is: solo players will never grab your raid slot, they will never push you out of your m+ group. It doesn't matter at all what rewards they get. You just don't want them to get better rewards because... reason above maybe?
    I can see your point and it does come down to a personal question. For me the answer is no... I found visions though flawed an excellent first step in solo progression. I don't want to see more grind content added to the game. I see there as being far to much as is and yeah a part of that is from being roped into it by blizzard.

    I don't think anyone who does world quests will ever be competition for me...hell most CE raiders wouldn't be able to knock me from my perch it isn't self preservation so much as recalling what it was like to be mid tier all those years ago. The game honestly does break down when you flood people into content they are not ready for.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    The game honestly does break down when you flood people into content they are not ready for.
    Which content would that be? Solo players play by definition: alone.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    titanforging is fine if it doesn't go higher than what you can normally acquire (252 currently).

    i'd even say it's a good thing since it keeps people interested in easy content for longer.
    Rewards based on luck and not skill are always going to be the worse option.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Keten View Post
    Why do you care if it's difficult or not, if it's not the content you're interested in? The people that play it are fine and happy with it's difficulty level. Contrary to what you might think, video games are not intended to be morality engines that only dole out rewards to the people that play in certain ways.

    I couldn't care less if someone cracks nuts all the way to BiS gear, it neither picks my pockets nor breaks my legs and it is not my business how someone else finds enjoyment in a leisure activity meant for entertainment. The only sop I give to the "hardcore's" that can't help themselves from eaking out every minimal upgrade is that it should be at a slow enough rate that those obsessives won't benefit from it so they don't cry all over the forums nonstop about how they're "forced" to do things. By the same token, players uninterested in manually-grouped content should not be "forced" to play that sort of content (rated BG/Raids/M+) to earn useful rewards that keep them interested in the game.
    Because it is available to everyone... Johnny key beaker who doesn't know a rotation will gear via the path of least resistance and force the creation of a gate keeper system like raider io... it's why selfish reasoning doesn't really work here. It isnt about you but the wider effect.

  5. #185
    One good thing in Warlords was the raid items one level "higher" than your current difficulty from missions. It meant that people geared up quickly at the level they played at, but also created a gradual nerf system to every level EXCEPT the highest, that felt organic. Giving casual players better gear very slowly still benefits all levels of raiders.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by b1gh3x View Post
    I can pay 150k once a week for a guaranteed piece of 252 loot from M+
    but getting a 252 piece of loot from World Quests or Torghast takes less skill and thus, is not deserving of the same reward?
    There isn't one end of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Then it should just be on non-Mythic stuff. Mythic tier gear could be the cap. Doing WQ and heroic dungeons are dead content essentially without TF or some sort of Valor Point system with a vendor that updates their wares every patch.
    No, the cap could be normal raid gear. Oh wait that's already what is via the Korth upgrade system.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Rewards based on luck and not skill are always going to be the worse option.
    historically skilled and unskilled players can always get the same high level gear.

    the only difference has always been the speed at which you can get it.

    my main is usually at max ilvl a few weeks into a patch, my alts mostly have to rely on the weekly vault so they are much much slower.

    do i really care if my alt/some casual gets 1-2 extra vault ilvl rewards by luck per patch cycle? no.
    is it really going to affect my profit from M+ boosting if casuals get 1-2 extra vault ilvl rewards from luck? no.
    does it really affect my guilds progress speed if i reach max ilvl a week sooner or later? no.

    i do agree with you in princple though: im a cutting edge raider but through pure luck i only have a 226 chestpiece. where can i sign up for the skillbased 252 chest plz?
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-11-08 at 06:01 PM.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I guess it comes back to people not actually enjoying the content but only doing it for the rewards.
    The M+/raiding community don't likes that idea since in their eyes the numbers show that everyone loves M+/raiding.

    If you offer a easier/more fun alternative a lot of people would go there, that would diminish M+ numbers, that may lead to Bliz not giving that much attention to it anymore. Someone who actually likes M+ doesn't want that, of course, thats why they can't accept any alternatives even though they may not affect them at all otherwise.
    Yeah I wonder how many players would actually engage with the harder content if it wasn't for the rewards.
    If all content dropped the same gear and difficulty sliders were just difficulty sliders.
    I think that a lot of those who claim that they do it for the challenge and that the gear is just a means to an end would turn out to be massive hypocrites.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefall View Post
    One good thing in Warlords was the raid items one level "higher" than your current difficulty from missions. It meant that people geared up quickly at the level they played at, but also created a gradual nerf system to every level EXCEPT the highest, that felt organic. Giving casual players better gear very slowly still benefits all levels of raiders.
    Sounds a lot like the welfare mythic+ vault giving gear WAY about its difficulty.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I'll say it. I miss Titanforging.
    Titanforing was a love/hate thing. I hated doing repetative content hoping to get something to forge but I also hated doing the content to get the better gear but still wanted to progress. The ultimate problem with the game with regards to gear progression for me is that I don't have time any longer to commit to raiding and being on an arena team or RBG team. I just want to log in whenever I want and I want to do whatever content I want and I want to log out. Most of this being virtually all solo or qued into random players content. IE random BGs or something like that. Now once I get to the point I cannot progress further then I have zero motivation to continue playing. An honestly I usually get burnt out as soon as I realize my progression path is almost complete. In the past I could just bg to my hearts content and eventually have the best PvP gear but that isn't the case anymore. Now you need at least some rating. And the argument counter to that then is if you're not going to compete at that level you don't need that level of gear. Ok well that's fine I guess, I just won't be playing that content at all in which case I won't be playing the game at all. I don't want free easy to get rewards, I just want a progression path that if I play enough I can eventually have the best or darn close to the best gear in all categories that I want to play in. And I don't think that is a ridiculous thing to want. I mean me having BiS eventually doesn't hurt someone else who got it months before me but it gives me a progression path I can work on towards a goal that is achievable. And I don't see what's wrong with that. I do know I don't like the current system and so I eventually just stop which means 1 less player for the game. IDK just my 2 cents and personal opinion.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Which content would that be? Solo players play by definition: alone.
    Anyone can do any content.

  12. #192
    Give Torghast a spec leaderboard and grant top gear on a % basis (like a cross between arena and D3) and I'd be down for making it ultra competitive like that.

    Except that will never happen because of the giant demographic of r/wow whiny casuals who hate any amount of meritocracy in wow.

  13. #193
    I'll never understand boosting mindset. "Ah yes, let me pay other people money to play the game for me. So I can have gear...which serves no purpose except to better do the content...that they...already did for me."

    Watching Let's Players is free, guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  14. #194
    Immortal Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    +1 me to buddy me too - and 90 % of players who left game .
    Stats pulled out of asshole, convincing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Then it should just be on non-Mythic stuff. Mythic tier gear could be the cap. Doing WQ and heroic dungeons are dead content essentially without TF or some sort of Valor Point system with a vendor that updates their wares every patch.
    This exactly. TF = replayability. Removing TF removes a LOT of replayability from content. It was a grave mistake.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    Stats pulled out of asshole, convincing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This exactly. TF = replayability. Removing TF removes a LOT of replayability from content. It was a grave mistake.
    That or people can just roll an alt or move on. There are korean grind mmos...

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