The case for high end gear from WQ and Torghast

[Echocho]

I guess it comes back to people not actually enjoying the content but only doing it for the rewards.
The M+/raiding community don't likes that idea since in their eyes the numbers show that everyone loves M+/raiding.

If you offer a easier/more fun alternative a lot of people would go there, that would diminish M+ numbers, that may lead to Bliz not giving that much attention to it anymore. Someone who actually likes M+ doesn't want that, of course, thats why they can't accept any alternatives even though they may not affect them at all otherwise.

Yeah I wonder how many players would actually engage with the harder content if it wasn't for the rewards.
If all content dropped the same gear and difficulty sliders were just difficulty sliders.
I think that a lot of those who claim that they do it for the challenge and that the gear is just a means to an end would turn out to be massive hypocrites.

[Argorwal]

One good thing in Warlords was the raid items one level "higher" than your current difficulty from missions. It meant that people geared up quickly at the level they played at, but also created a gradual nerf system to every level EXCEPT the highest, that felt organic. Giving casual players better gear very slowly still benefits all levels of raiders.

Sounds a lot like the welfare mythic+ vault giving gear WAY about its difficulty.

[Talon8669]

I'll say it. I miss Titanforging.

Titanforing was a love/hate thing. I hated doing repetative content hoping to get something to forge but I also hated doing the content to get the better gear but still wanted to progress. The ultimate problem with the game with regards to gear progression for me is that I don't have time any longer to commit to raiding and being on an arena team or RBG team. I just want to log in whenever I want and I want to do whatever content I want and I want to log out. Most of this being virtually all solo or qued into random players content. IE random BGs or something like that. Now once I get to the point I cannot progress further then I have zero motivation to continue playing. An honestly I usually get burnt out as soon as I realize my progression path is almost complete. In the past I could just bg to my hearts content and eventually have the best PvP gear but that isn't the case anymore. Now you need at least some rating. And the argument counter to that then is if you're not going to compete at that level you don't need that level of gear. Ok well that's fine I guess, I just won't be playing that content at all in which case I won't be playing the game at all. I don't want free easy to get rewards, I just want a progression path that if I play enough I can eventually have the best or darn close to the best gear in all categories that I want to play in. And I don't think that is a ridiculous thing to want. I mean me having BiS eventually doesn't hurt someone else who got it months before me but it gives me a progression path I can work on towards a goal that is achievable. And I don't see what's wrong with that. I do know I don't like the current system and so I eventually just stop which means 1 less player for the game. IDK just my 2 cents and personal opinion.

[Log Cabin]

Which content would that be? Solo players play by definition: alone.

Anyone can do any content.

[intenz]

Give Torghast a spec leaderboard and grant top gear on a % basis (like a cross between arena and D3) and I'd be down for making it ultra competitive like that.

Except that will never happen because of the giant demographic of r/wow whiny casuals who hate any amount of meritocracy in wow.

[Powerogue]

I'll never understand boosting mindset. "Ah yes, let me pay other people money to play the game for me. So I can have gear...which serves no purpose except to better do the content...that they...already did for me."

Watching Let's Players is free, guys.

[Zka]

+1 me to buddy me too - and 90 % of players who left game .

Stats pulled out of asshole, convincing.

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Then it should just be on non-Mythic stuff. Mythic tier gear could be the cap. Doing WQ and heroic dungeons are dead content essentially without TF or some sort of Valor Point system with a vendor that updates their wares every patch.

This exactly. TF = replayability. Removing TF removes a LOT of replayability from content. It was a grave mistake.

[Log Cabin]

Stats pulled out of asshole, convincing.

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This exactly. TF = replayability. Removing TF removes a LOT of replayability from content. It was a grave mistake.

That or people can just roll an alt or move on. There are korean grind mmos...