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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Never said it should go anywhere. I said as a consumer you should want the stuff for free rather than paying for it. Well not you of course.
    And if you'd been paying attention, you'd now realise that the existence of the shop helps with this. Other people spend money on the shop => You get more content.

    Like I say, as that consumer who wants more "free" stuff, you should be cheering the shop and those who generously spend their money there on instead of trying to oppose it.

  2. #402
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I have yet to see a "well though out" anti-store post. Because it if was well thought out, the conclusion wouldn't be anti-store.
    Why should transmog with finer detail and higher pixel count only be available on the store besides increasing revenue? What does the consumer get by paying extra for cash shop items? A better game? Last I heard the devs and the people that actually work on the game are having trouble making ends meet in their life. So clearly that money isn't going into their pockets.

    Also I don't believe this idea that the items you see in the shop are side projects the devs worked on that didn't make it into the game. Pretty convenient that these side project transmog somehow always look far better than what you can earn in-game. If it's a side project why do they look like they had more time spent on them.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    Why should transmog with finer detail and higher pixel count only be available on the store besides increasing revenue? What does the consumer get by paying extra for cash shop items? A better game? Last I heard the devs and the people that actually work on the game are having trouble making ends meet in their life. So clearly that money isn't going into their pockets.

    Also I don't believe this idea that the items you see in the shop are side projects the devs worked on that didn't make it into the game. Pretty convenient that these side project transmog somehow always look far better than what you can earn in-game. If it's a side project why do they look like they had more time spent on them.
    Sounds an awful like you're only interested in hearing information that corroborates your opinion. You don't want to acknowledge that the devs may have different teams in charge of different projects but you do want to believe they're "having trouble making ends meet in their life" because, well, fuck corporations I guess. A bit selective with the information you want to believe and disbelieve, wouldn't you say?
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  4. #404
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Sounds an awful like you're only interested in hearing information that corroborates your opinion. You don't want to acknowledge that the devs may have different teams in charge of different projects but you do want to believe they're "having trouble making ends meet in their life" because, well, fuck corporations I guess. A bit selective with the information you want to believe and disbelieve, wouldn't you say?
    If we were getting these transmogs in-game with no strings attached then I would agree. We have yet to see something that looks really good like the latest addition with enhanced partical effects and design in the store. Why not drop one into the game that is not part of a promotion or cash shop.

    I'm open to any information you have that might prove otherwise or at the very least give the idea that it is not being done with a sinister motive (that being profit)

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    And if you'd been paying attention, you'd now realise that the existence of the shop helps with this. Other people spend money on the shop => You get more content.

    Like I say, as that consumer who wants more "free" stuff, you should be cheering the shop and those who generously spend their money there on instead of trying to oppose it.
    Does it though? The shop gets bigger and bigger but we don't seem to be getting more and more content.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Does it though? The shop gets bigger and bigger but we don't seem to be getting more and more content.
    I mean, by simple virtue of how stores work it's not like it can get smaller, right? And even if it did, you'd have people claiming that Blizzard is stoking FOMO therefore also bad. As far as I know, we're still getting new content patches (albeit a bit slower than I'm sure most people would like this expansion) so it's a weird correlation to make.
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  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I mean, by simple virtue of how stores work it's not like it can get smaller, right? And even if it did, you'd have people claiming that Blizzard is stoking FOMO therefore also bad. As far as I know, we're still getting new content patches (albeit a bit slower than I'm sure most people would like this expansion) so it's a weird correlation to make.
    Well the fella i quoted said more cash shop sales = more content. Obviously that isn't the case. I guess there is no way to know how much they make from that is just offsetting the declining sub cash. They seem to be still making plenty each year. We seem to be getting less quality and quantity each year imho. I just spend 302k on a token to check out 9.1.5. As far as i can see there it is just a 'make alting easier' stuff. We had to wait 5 or 6 months for that? I guess with covid and the pervert problems they ain't getting much done. The cash shop seem to be the only thing pumping out regular content.

  8. #408
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    If we were getting these transmogs in-game with no strings attached then I would agree. We have yet to see something that looks really good like the latest addition with enhanced partical effects and design in the store. Why not drop one into the game that is not part of a promotion or cash shop.

    I'm open to any information you have that might prove otherwise or at the very least give the idea that it is not being done with a sinister motive (that being profit)
    Wouldn’t the warlock sets in tbc and legion with the wings or the Druid sets with the shifting beast faces count as sets with enhanced partical effects?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Does it though? The shop gets bigger and bigger but we don't seem to be getting more and more content.
    While more content is debatable there has absolutely been an increase in quality with things like more voice acting both for quest and random mobs and old models being updated and so on.

    Like if you compare legion onwards to past expans almost every questing area has mobs with voice acting which was rare before.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2021-11-19 at 06:44 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    What does the consumer get by paying extra for cash shop items? A better game?
    Doubtful. The consumer gets something they desire though and if transmog or a particular mount makes their personal experience better it's not up to you to criticize. Nothing from the store is required to get the full experience of the game. If you think there's not enough content do what others do and unsubscribe until there's something worth coming back for. I think that's the normal experience for many now and as a consumer it's the right thing to do if they so choose.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Doubtful. The consumer gets something they desire though and if transmog or a particular mount makes their personal experience better it's not up to you to criticize.
    It really is. People supporting terrible business practices promote even shitter ones. Why I always instant kick people using cash shop items or burn their keys.

    All choices have consequences one must face them eventually.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chipped coin View Post
    It really is. People supporting terrible business practices promote even shitter ones. Why I always instant kick people using cash shop items or burn their keys.

    All choices have consequences one must face them eventually.
    No, you are not their parent or guardian. Only assholes kick people using cash shop items. I have a batwing mount from the store that was given to me as a gift. What kind of asshole makes a judgement based on that?
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    No, you are not their parent or guardian. Only assholes kick people using cash shop items. I have a batwing mount from the store that was given to me as a gift. What kind of asshole makes a judgement based on that?
    Clearly I do?

    What a weird question to ask. With any luck it will catch on like classic and corrections will come about.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Chipped coin View Post
    It really is. People supporting terrible business practices promote even shitter ones. Why I always instant kick people using cash shop items or burn their keys.

    All choices have consequences one must face them eventually.
    Truly you are a righteous crusader who will absolutely lead the vanguard of change by using these tactics, with bravery exemplified by a burner account.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    Truly you are a righteous crusader who will absolutely lead the vanguard of change by using these tactics, with bravery exemplified by a burner account.
    Not all heroes wear capes.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I didn't claim it had any success, mate

    I have pointed out multiple arguments.

    (1) The Developers have dismissed feedback regarding the borrowed power systems in Legion, BfA and SL, despite all of those had very similiar glaring issues.
    (2) Blizzard has always fixed those issues only months later for very contrived reasons, rather than resolve them upfront (disregarding that the apathy it is causing within the playerbase)
    (3) The people who have had been very close to the devs in the form of private forums have spoken out that ever since Legion, their feedback was very often disregarded and multiple issues that have been called out during Beta have ocurred shortly after the System hit live and then had to be resolved.
    (4) Even if you want disregard all of those issues that this stubbornness is causing (and Ion himself admitted to that) by citing "creative reasons", the fact how much effort Blizzard has to put into those systems as far as balance is concerned, concerns that get multiplied due to their artifical friction, cannot possibly be worth the trouble and should effort rather be focused on improving other aspects of the game, rather than attempting to balance a system that cannot be balanced and where it's a given that it lands in the bin next expansion.
    I mean, at leas they are fixing those issues? There are complaints about the core gameplay loop for the entire healer role in FF14 which the devs just plain ignore if they are nut busy indirectly insulting the entire healer base of their game or outright lying to them xDDD

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    I mean, at leas they are fixing those issues? There are complaints about the core gameplay loop for the entire healer role in FF14 which the devs just plain ignore if they are nut busy indirectly insulting the entire healer base of their game or outright lying to them xDDD
    If this is the case for FF, they should really glance in Blizzard's direction to see how can such an attitude poison the product.
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    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
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    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    If this is the case for FF, they should really glance in Blizzard's direction to see how can such an attitude poison the product.
    They won't, because the game is stuck in a bubble of validation and enforced positivity, basically living off their good writing team as well as Yoshi-Ps public persona, which lets them get away with all kinds of shit, like an even more exploitative itemstore where you don't have the option to buy everything in it with ingame currency through tokens, refusing to in any shape or form expand on their content instead downsizing it despite constantly growing player numbers and ignoring all kinds of player complaints when it comes to class design, especially when it comes to Dark Knight players and the entire Healer Community.

    And really nobody says anything because people rather gloat at WoWs misfortune while that game still released more serious pve content in an expansion with massive delays which is cut short one patch than FF14 will release in Endwalker because we already know how much content they release because they won't expand on it. At best if the playerbase are lucky they will release 2 instead of one ultimate encounters, but don't bet on it.

  18. #418
    I mean odds are they're only going to select shills to be a part of the council to begin with. They won't accept anyone that's critical of the game in any degree. Don't be surprised by garbage under the illusion of "we hear you players".
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  19. #419
    Not sure, but I hope there's someone who gets them to stop flooding the game with a million mounts every patch. There should only be one model for each mount - we don't need 5 different recolors. It makes mounts even more meaningless than they already are. A mount should be a reward for doing something special and I should know exactly what that is when I see the mount in question.

  20. #420
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Does it though? The shop gets bigger and bigger but we don't seem to be getting more and more content.
    The absolute amount of content we receive is irrelevant though. I am simply saying that with the shop revenue contributing to the development budget we're going to get more content than we'd get without it. As for evidence of the amount they spend on the dev budget, we know that their team is as big now as it has ever been. This in spite of a significant drop in sub numbers over the last decade. That's a pretty strong indication that a lot of shop money is going into development of the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    Why should transmog with finer detail and higher pixel count only be available on the store besides increasing revenue? What does the consumer get by paying extra for cash shop items? A better game? Last I heard the devs and the people that actually work on the game are having trouble making ends meet in their life. So clearly that money isn't going into their pockets.
    Logic dictates that without the shop, this situation (whatever it actually is) would be a lot worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    Also I don't believe this idea that the items you see in the shop are side projects the devs worked on that didn't make it into the game. Pretty convenient that these side project transmog somehow always look far better than what you can earn in-game. If it's a side project why do they look like they had more time spent on them.
    I think I recall from a long time ago that they said that the concept art behind them often came from things that didn't make it into the game. The shop was literally the means of turning those things from concept art into in-game assets.

    Seriously though, this concept of more money from the shop => more money into the dev budget is not that difficult that anyone can claim it's that hard to understand. I think the issue here is just plain stubbornness.

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