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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    It has felt this way since Mythic+. No one wanted the timer bs but it’s the only content outside of raid and pvp. And now, because it’s content with most engagement and esports potential they keep the cycle of boring, casual-unfriendly content. These same metrics are how they decide to extend playtime through time gating.
    Mythic+ is very casual friendly. Not only do you need considerable fewer people than with a raid, you can also do it much faster than a raid. You just need to find 4 people of the same mind-set as yourself and you can play at a level that suits your interests/experience/skill-level.

    Don't confuse casual with unskilled/uncompetitive. Casuals can be very competitive and skilled. Don't skill-shame casual players.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    By introducing the most boring, but somehow kinda rewarding content called "world quests"?
    First of all, Legion did not introduce WQs. Second of all, WQs is just a different iteration of dailys. Something that has always been in the game more or less. Thirdly, WQs as an idea & concept aint that bad really - its how the execute it. In legion it was maybe a bit far to hide legendaries behind it, cause people farmed it all the time.

    Lastly - Legion was about alot more than just doing WQs all day. They did deliver alot of content in that xpac in a decent pace.

  3. #143
    Myabe this is just me, but I have followed warcraft since warcraft 1, 2, 3, frozen throne. played the beta for wow, played every expansion, every patch and I have never had a problem with the story except for Cataclysm. I hated what they did to Deathwing, everything else has been great in my opinion. I have followed the story and lore every step of the way and love what the creators have done. It is very difficult to appease everyone, especially when there are beloved characters affected in one way or the other. There have been many changes to characters that I have not enjoyed, but I love the lore and story so I keep coming back every patch, play the new content, beat the raid, and always hopeful for whats to come next. It's very hard being a developer in these times, you work hard, and a lot of people are angry about things. I get it, but I play wow and swtor, I bounce back and forth. I can honestly say I have never regretted any of my 15$ a month or any of the collectors expansions, all worth every penny to be in a world I grew up in. Thank you Blizzard for the wonderful stories you produce, although they may not make everyone happy, I am thankful for your writers, developers, producers, and designers for everything you do. I am looking forward to Diablo 4! I am also excited for 9.2, and the next Expansion. Thank you for all the wonderful memories and whats to come!
    Last edited by MindoftheAbyss; 2021-11-12 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Typo

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    First of all, Legion did not introduce WQs. Second of all, WQs is just a different iteration of dailys. Something that has always been in the game more or less. Thirdly, WQs as an idea & concept aint that bad really - its how the execute it. In legion it was maybe a bit far to hide legendaries behind it, cause people farmed it all the time.

    Lastly - Legion was about alot more than just doing WQs all day. They did deliver alot of content in that xpac in a decent pace.
    Legion was the first expansion with WQs. I vividly recall doing dailies in Tanaan Jungle, they were 100% a new addition to Legion.

  5. #145
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Wow, you can just buy max level lol

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    They've opened up max level boost during the last patch of every expansion since they began doing leveling boosts.
    Yes, a good time after the expansion was complete and all that was left was waiting for the next one.

    Even so, having boosts at all is not a good thing for the game.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Mythic+ is very casual friendly. Not only do you need considerable fewer people than with a raid, you can also do it much faster than a raid. You just need to find 4 people of the same mind-set as yourself and you can play at a level that suits your interests/experience/skill-level.

    Don't confuse casual with unskilled/uncompetitive. Casuals can be very competitive and skilled. Don't skill-shame casual players.
    As a "force" casual myself through fatherhood I very much agree. However I'm not sure the person you replied to meant M+ was casual, more that all the timegating etc is casual-unfriendly. Could be wrong ofc!

  8. #148
    sick and tired of the cosmic crap

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    Really depends on the type of currency and how you obtain it, honestly. Blizzard doesn't have any good track record with it recently, by design mind you, so I can understand the sentiment. Little harsh lashing out at someone like that though.
    It should be a grind, regardless of method. That's how the game originally was and needs to return to its roots.
    All the complaints about not wanting grinds are from people that don't know what an MMO is supposed to be. They are asking for the game to be an AFK-fest where all they do is press que buttons and complain on social media about boredom.

    The developers need to urgently ignore the majority of clueless people on social media/streams and do their thing as they originally did using actual resources and opinions from qualified people. Not cabdrivers on twitch pretending to be game designers.

    Every single activity in the game should serve a purpose and be rewarding with RNG being a source. Take BFA for example, everything meant a purpose and by 8.3 there were currencies for almost everything that were farmable doing different activities in the game, some optional too for the same currency. There was no separation from PVE and PVP in BFA and that's what made every activity in the game lively and active.

    As far as lashing out is concerned, I'm just sick of all the negativity especially from people that complain here yet can be found in-game any day and any time of the week. A lot of the negativity seems to be mental rather than actual fair criticism. Like what's the point of someone coming here and kicking off his mental outrage with "I don't play anymore but I am here to tell you I hate everything". No one should tolerate or take comments from crazy people like that seriously. If you don't like the company because you are a perfect social media warrior, then take off. There's no need to bother others that are actually enjoying the game.
    Last edited by ImpalerEU; 2021-11-12 at 07:59 PM.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is what you said. You are making fun of their statement by saying how ridiculous it is that they planned for the jailer since as far back as the RTS games. That is not what they claimed. They are continuing the story started with those games by adding new chapters are and considering this the conclusion of that story. Just as the Legion expansion was the conclusion of the Burning Legion story that also started with the RTS games.
    You said that my claim was "100% of the story must be known from the start". I never said that, what you did is called a strawman argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssria View Post
    I'm the only guy that has a clue as to what's wrong with the game and how it can be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Size doesn't matter
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Cough View Post
    Wotlk was the peak and any brand rarely ever reach or suprass their peak.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by ImpalerEU View Post
    It should be a grind, regardless of method. That's how the game originally was and needs to return to its roots.
    All the complaints about not wanting grinds are from people that don't know what an MMO is supposed to be. They are asking for the game to be an AFK-fest where all they do is press que buttons and complain on social media about boredom.
    A grind isn't inherent to the design of an MMO. Sitting there mindlessly killing furblogs while watching stuff on a second monitor is barely any different then what you claim "AFK-fest" is. All types of gating content are important to MMO's and they all have their place. Your argument also forgets that raid lock outs exist and are a core feature of WoW. They are only there to time-gate the acquisition rate of loot. Not to mention the entire purpose of RNG loot is to time gate based on luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    You said that my claim was "100% of the story must be known from the start". I never said that, what you did is called a strawman argument.
    And yet you claimed Blizzard lied when they said they planned it from the start even though that is not what they actually said. Your own, false, argument requires a story to be 100% known from the start in order for it to be a valid attack.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #152
    Nope...nope...no thanks more stupid bs

  13. #153
    Even time gating raid bosses in a raid now. Where will this end?

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Even time gating raid bosses in a raid now. Where will this end?
    Not the first time. They did it in WotLK with ICC. A xpac dearly loved. If it fits the story they want to tell, I see no issue with it.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A grind isn't inherent to the design of an MMO. Sitting there mindlessly killing furblogs while watching stuff on a second monitor is barely any different then what you claim "AFK-fest" is. All types of gating content are important to MMO's and they all have their place. Your argument also forgets that raid lock outs exist and are a core feature of WoW. They are only there to time-gate the acquisition rate of loot. Not to mention the entire purpose of RNG loot is to time gate based on luck.

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    And yet you claimed Blizzard lied when they said they planned it from the start even though that is not what they actually said. Your own, false, argument requires a story to be 100% known from the start in order for it to be a valid attack.
    I would argue the difference comes from what the activity is and if you can skip it.

    You don't need fur reputation you need an enchanter with the enchant.

    You need the daily bullshit and torghast bullshit because it is the only source of their rewards.

    Giving easy afkable content rewards almost solely valued by players doing the hardest content is moronic. You end up with mindless single player grinds by necessity because the groups drawn into this content would other wise naturally seperate from each other.

    Blizzard has to find the courage to let players stick to the content they enjoy rather then designing by metrics.

  16. #156
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Time to decipher the corporate speak.

    The Shadowlands story arc was planned to have three acts
    Uh huh. Blizzard used to do post mortems where they admitted stuff didn't go according to plan, but they haven't done that in a decade.

    Tyrande and Sylvanas are on a collision course and there will be heavy interaction between those characters, and that is pivotal to the final conclusion of Shadowlands.
    Will likely end with Tyrande letting Sylvanas off the hook for mass murder.

    This patch will explain all of the Shadowlands story lines and this is actually the ending of a series of story lines starting from Warcraft 3.
    There was absolutely no inkling of a Shadowlands/Jailer storyline until Legion.

    There is room for sweeping, cosmic narratives and small, personal stories alike.
    Nobody complained about comsic storylines. People are complaining about the execution. It doesn't matter if it's a "personal" story about Sadfang, or if it's a cosmic story about the fate of Azeroth's souls. The execution is awful regardless. Blizzard just has bad storytellers, period.

    There are many facets of the Warcraft universe still waiting for us to explore in both the cosmic sense of Eternity’s End, and the more grounded events in Azeroth featuring characters we know and love, with many areas yet in Azeroth to be discovered.
    Hopefully that means we can get an underground expansion with ancient Nerubian kingdoms and stuff.

    The Jailer fight will be in a very dynamic room, with pillars and fog, and may be the craziest boss the team has done.
    Hopefully it's a conceptually interesting boss fight, like chasing Sylvanas along the chains.

    After defeating the first boss in the Sepulcher, you need to take a flight path to the next boss in the instance. As you travel, you get to see all the epic scenery, huge structures in the raid, and get the sense of scale and fantasy.
    Uh huh. Yeah you guys were talking about in your preview video how a mundane garden is an "alien world", so... forgive me for not taking this at face value.

    In previous raids, everything led up to a moment with the final boss. This time we have a big story moment with both Anduin and the Jailer.
    Excuse me? Do you not remember The Black Temple? Sunwell Plateau? Dragon Soul? Siege of Orgrimmar? Hellfire Citadel? The Battle of Dazar'alor? There have been plenty of character scenes in raids that happened before the final boss.

    Zereth Mortis was an opportunity for the team to show a whole new level of Warcraft cosmology, about this mystical and ‘higher form of magic’ place that we hadn’t seen before.
    Nobody cares about Titans 2.0 but worse The First Ones. Nobody wants to see the religious pantheon of Warcraft even further shat on. Then again the Warcraft deities have already been pretty thoroughly demolished so it's not like it can get worse, but your new stuff certainly isn't going to fill its shoes.

    Tier sets are a combination of class fantasy and the aesthetics from the zone, creatures, and ecology of Zereth Mortis.
    Nothing about the tier sets evoke class fantasy or specific creatures. They are all very slightly tweaked D3 angel armors.

    The team wants to move to a world where players have new content to consume more frequently.
    Yeah, you've been saying this since WoD. Over the past decade, you've put out less content on a regular basis than MoP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Its' legacy will be "at least it's better than Warlords of Draenor."
    Warlords of Draenor didn't have unfun grind systems like Shadowlands. WoD's absurd premise aside, the questing experience was satisfying. Also, WoD had a top tier soundtrack.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bryroo View Post
    For as often as I've read that the developers want to get more content out to the players i dont think I've ever heard them say how they plan on doing that.

    Here's a wild concept: a team C or D that develops stand alone events that take place/update a zone in the old world.

    Maybe have a patch to build back Camp Turajo or Silvermoon, clean up Undercity, cleanse the Vale.

    Stuff thats not so cosmic scale that fits inbetween.
    Way back in the early days, GW2 had two content development teams that alternate releasing patches. Team 1 would released patch 1, and team 2 would release patch 2, and then team 1 would release patch 3. That way a new content update dropped every two weeks. Ofcourse, this requires corporate to actually spend money, which Blizzard won't do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    What? Why would it play out in any possible way different to "on land" when very clearly it's a texture change (in simple terms). But even then.....what? Seriously what does the look of the ground have to do with pvp?
    I guess maybe druids using travel form, or forsaken could dive down deep beneath the water and engage players on the surface at will, while surface players would swim too slow (and not be able to breathe underwater) and thus can't really fight back. Basically ganking.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    If you have no idea what other company’s pay you can’t know that blizzard is underpaying…….


    And ya there was a lot of info put out about blizzard but all of that was around people wanting bigger raises after performance exams and the disparity between higher position pay and those lower down the totem pole.

    So nothing to do with being underpaid compared to other company’s.
    There's no secret what the industry pays. It sounds like you've never had a job or been employed.

  18. #158
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    There's no secret what the industry pays. It sounds like you've never had a job or been employed.
    So it's no secret yet you some how still have no idea?

    but your right I haven't worked in the industry and from the sounds of it neither have you given that you apparently are just as ignorant as I am.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    First of all, Legion did not introduce WQs. Second of all, WQs is just a different iteration of dailys. Something that has always been in the game more or less. Thirdly, WQs as an idea & concept aint that bad really - its how the execute it. In legion it was maybe a bit far to hide legendaries behind it, cause people farmed it all the time.

    Lastly - Legion was about alot more than just doing WQs all day. They did deliver alot of content in that xpac in a decent pace.
    Lot of words with very little content

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    So it's no secret yet you some how still have no idea?

    but your right I haven't worked in the industry and from the sounds of it neither have you given that you apparently are just as ignorant as I am.
    I'm not in their industry or even country, so do I personally know? Nope, sorry.
    Do i know the salary for the industry im actually working for and my country? Yes of course.
    And this is true for most people not seeking an entry level job or internship, regardless of the industry or chosen career.

    We can agree to disagree but its been known for well over a decade blizzard has consistently underpaid and lived on the hype of having working for Blizzard.
    Last edited by tomten; 2021-11-13 at 04:18 AM.

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