Poll: Is it healthy to gate flying behind "pathfinders"?

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  1. #141
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    I got a loan off a guildie to buy the basic flight, and that let me mine the Nagrand ore circuit much more efficiently, and so after a about six weeks I'd paid them back and made enough to buy epic flight and a mount, and by then I'd also ground out the CE rep for the CE hippogryph so that was my first epic mount. Not many people on my server had them, so it was pretty cool (and it's still one of my favourite mounts, and I'd love a hi-poly hi-res version that wasn't all fancied up the way Blizzard does all the mounts these days).
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyrr View Post
    Guess I was just better at farming as I had it within the first month so it didn't seem too bad to me. But the precedent was set that it was possible with its first introduction to have max lvl flying immediately at level cap.
    The point is that just setting flight to be available right away with gold the moment you hit level cap is not feasible anymore in this day and age, due to how easy and fast it is to make gold nowadays, unless Blizzard prices it at... what? 500k gold or more, maybe a million?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  2. #142
    The equivalent of 5k gold back in TBC would probably feel like something around 500k, I'd say. You can earn it, but it'll take weeks of actual effort (or skill playing the AH).

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The point is that just setting flight to be available right away with gold the moment you hit level cap is not feasible anymore in this day and age, due to how easy and fast it is to make gold nowadays, unless Blizzard prices it at... what? 500k gold or more, maybe a million?
    The gold was never really meannt as a barrier (other than fast flight in TBC). Every other expansion seemed pretty much designed to give you twice the amount of gold you needed to buy it just by leveling.

    This isn't really a problem though. All the best zone design was done during the flight years. All blizzards reasons against fight are the very reasons modern zone design is bad.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    lol... physics enabled flying? i can ride a fucking flying magic carpet... why should that abide by gravity physics when it clearly never has in any form of media?
    Cause even if the carpet is magic, the user would still have to abide by those laws.. it goes from full speed to zero instantly or crashes into a tree, the user would still keep moving cause of inertia.

    This and casting in WoW is just a pet peeve of mine. I don't like how mounts behave in general(like ground mounts should not be able to turn 180 degrees instantly either or come to a full stop instantly) and how, when casting you put away your weapons.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    The equivalent of 5k gold back in TBC would probably feel like something around 500k, I'd say. You can earn it, but it'll take weeks of actual effort (or skill playing the AH).
    The problem is, of course, that these days you can just have someone else earn it for you, legally. So high prices like that are really being set as "How many tokens should it cost?" which is well enough when it's something being priced for the whales, but not for something like flight that everyone can be expected to need.

    That's why I've said I'm okay with flight being gated to max-level plus a short delay. I'm okay with that short delay (and I do men short - 2-4 weeks) in order that the super-fact levellers at the beginning of an expansion don't hit cap, get flight, and start spoiling everyone's fun and excitement. A few weeks grace for the majority of the players to hit the cap, then flight should become available to anyone who hits cap. Alts maybe should not be able to fly right away, but I'd want that removed at the first patch too - by then anyone with a main is going to have lost any sense of mystery and done all the exploring they care to do, so there's no harm in just letting them fly on alts as they level.

    Flight becoming account-side when you got it was one thing they did right in WoD. The other was not having 'no fly' zones other than Ashran.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Cause even if the carpet is magic, the user would still have to abide by those laws.. it goes from full speed to zero instantly or crashes into a tree, the user would still keep moving cause of inertia.

    This and casting in WoW is just a pet peeve of mine. I don't like how mounts behave in general(like ground mounts should not be able to turn 180 degrees instantly either or come to a full stop instantly) and how, when casting you put away your weapons.
    So, when a character runs, should they also have a turning circle, and a stopping distance? If not, you're being inconsistent. If so, well I don't think you'll find many supporters for your position.

  6. #146
    SWTOR doesn't have flying, and yet, getting around really isn't that big a deal thanks to teleports on short cooldowns, and lots of taxis, so its definitely possible to make a game where ground travel is convenient and interesting.

  7. #147
    Yes*****



    But I want to add, I think pathfinder itself should be added sooner.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    Maybe they could move it up a little from where they do now, but what I DO NOT WANT is flying actually at release of a new expansion. It was crappy, and horribly immersion breaking to fight your way in on a quest, just to watch two guys land on the boss from the air, kill him and take off, leaving you standing there with your thumb up your ass. (Cata, if you don't recognize what I'm talking about.)

    So, while I'm all good with making it simpler, I do not want automatic flying at release of a new area or expansion.

    You know what is immersion breaking? Everyone else getting to fly around while I sit my ass on the ground because apparently the air just hits different when it comes to my mounts.

    Jesus, just let people fly with no barriers or massive gold sinks. It really isn't that hard to understand or get.

    If the game is fun, it won't matter what mode of transportation you use. It worked that way for years before we had to 'compromise' with the time played metric.
    Last edited by Varitok; 2021-11-18 at 04:38 AM.

  9. #149
    blizzard's obsession with gating flying so hard is stupid and outdated. do like ff14 and make it ground mount during leveling but flying when you hit max level.

  10. #150
    I say it again, that devs pretend, that Wow is some sort of Metroidvania. It's game, that is about exploration, solving navigation puzzles, finding treasures/secrets and where killing mobs is some sort punishment for wrong navigation. Plus mobs usually drop some sort of currency, that is used to upgrade things (such as Geo in Hollow Knight), so overall players actually WANT to kill mobs, because they would need to grind that currency anyway to buy something (like amulets in Hollow Knight). Problem is - Metroidvania is ONE TIME GAME. Exploration is great, but once you know all secrets, you can't forget them, so the most interesting exploration part of game dies. Only thing, that can keep you playing it - is time running. And this thing isn't for everybody. And Wow is about LONG TERM GRINDS. It's about things you do on daily basis. Things, you do again, again and again. Game just can't be as fresh after one month, as at day one. And don't even talk about 6 months or year. Yeah, for one player, who plays one character for that 6 or 12 months it may not be big problem. Especially if he does high level content, such as Mythic raids, M+ or rated PVP. He has enough overgear to one-shot everything, so he can complete ignore it. But what about new players, who join lately? I guess, WotLK was so popular, because it was friendly to new players, joining at any moment during xpacks life span. WHAT ABOUT ALTS? It really seems like current Blizzard team hates alts for some reasons and try to prevent players from playing them.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    then charging through mobs or players as a warrior should knock them down... it would be impossible for any normal mob to live against a fire mage because their bodies would just combust... physics don't work in games nor a lot of movies...
    Haven't you played any newer games? Collision with mobs is absolutely a thing and inertia and physics too when in a vehicle.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Cause even if the carpet is magic, the user would still have to abide by those laws.. it goes from full speed to zero instantly or crashes into a tree, the user would still keep moving cause of inertia.

    This and casting in WoW is just a pet peeve of mine. I don't like how mounts behave in general(like ground mounts should not be able to turn 180 degrees instantly either or come to a full stop instantly) and how, when casting you put away your weapons.
    I rather not mix real world with fantasy world. If we are going to that, then it is a whole can of worms. More like a barrel. Like how I can access all my mounts and pull them them when I want. Think about it. Where do people store their Mammoths, Drakes and other oversize mounts when not using them.

    It doesn't make sense. But it was never meant to.

    You could argue that some elements like inertia could be implemented but then each mounts would be different, have different speed, different acceleration etc.

  13. #153
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    Blizzard is atm like "hmm how can we make it so that we milk the most out of montly sub?" instead of "hmmm how can we make quality content so people keep playing?".
    That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    and with strange Aeons even Death may die.

  14. #154
    Mechagnome Mask's Avatar
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    Where is the "No, the game shouldn't have flying at all" option?

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    I rather not mix real world with fantasy world. If we are going to that, then it is a whole can of worms. More like a barrel. Like how I can access all my mounts and pull them them when I want. Think about it. Where do people store their Mammoths, Drakes and other oversize mounts when not using them.

    It doesn't make sense. But it was never meant to.

    You could argue that some elements like inertia could be implemented but then each mounts would be different, have different speed, different acceleration etc.
    Well this is the first time I've seen "but this is a fantasy world with magic" used to justify outdated, lazy game design. Collision and physics are part of nearly every modern game with any kind of budget.

    Flying was never meant to be a thing either and they had to redesign every Classic zone when they implemented it. I just think that the TBC implementation needs to be removed completely and then if they want to put it back, redesign it so it so it would be something more than swimming in air with a speed hack.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Well this is the first time I've seen "but this is a fantasy world with magic" used to justify outdated, lazy game design. Collision and physics are part of nearly every modern game with any kind of budget.

    Flying was never meant to be a thing either and they had to redesign every Classic zone when they implemented it. I just think that the TBC implementation needs to be removed completely and then if they want to put it back, redesign it so it so it would be something more than swimming in air with a speed hack.
    They had quests in Cata, where they tried to show, that they tried to make flying with physics and flying combat, but failed. Problem is - I guess, nobody in Blizzard doesn't even have a clue, what gliding is. When flying mount doesn't flap it's wings - it drops like a rock.

  17. #157
    it's better if zones are designed with flying in mind from the ground up.

    but ofc, designed with flying in mind can (and arguably should) mean it has areas with anti air defenses and the like, which perhaps you can get around through progress in the zone.

    so then you basically have 4 options:
    -a zone where you just fly over everything and nothing matters.
    -time gated flying so you do get to know the zone, but the flying is no hassle when you get it.
    -very annoying or very lethal air defenses like weve seen in the past, that eventually you can maybe remove.
    -pointless air defenses like the one in mechagon that are just a minor invoncenience.

    call me crazy but none of those options strike me as ideal, and coming up with new flying based mechanics doesn't seem to be easy either.

    i did kinda like that feather thing we had in WoD though, or the jetpacks in mechagon.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-11-19 at 04:05 AM.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    Yes. Flying shouldn't even be in the game. They've admitted as such. However, this compromise is fine. After the content is completed and mostly irrelevant, then you can have flying for your alts or whatever.

    So you are against player choice. You like to be told how to play the game. You despise thinking for yourself playing Wow. Ok, Gotcha!

    Firstly, the devs not wanting flying means shit. The fact that you think the devs actually think these days is ignorance on your part. The devs have no credibility.

    Secondly, this is an MMO. Mmo games should provide player choice. Not to be told what to do or how to play the game.

  19. #159
    who even cares anymore. its not like theres anything to do in the world to be flying to anyway

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Well this is the first time I've seen "but this is a fantasy world with magic" used to justify outdated, lazy game design. Collision and physics are part of nearly every modern game with any kind of budget.
    And this is not the first time I head "Lazy game design" when someone disagree with some feature, or lack of, in the game. Yes. WoW has outdated game design because its an outdated game.

    Physics is fine when it forms part of the game play. Mounts does not have any form of game play. At least from my perspective. If there are any gameplay element involving mounts, I must have missed it. So what improvements does having physics would make in the game? Explosions? Flying bodies? Flying debris?

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