Do you feel like Shadowlands is the "conclusion to the first book of Warcraft saga"?

[Catscratch]

Why would you want that instead of just continued cohesive story by more competent story writers?

WoW missed that chance years ago. They needed to overhaul mechanics and the graphics engine. It was financially viable back then, not now. Storywise, I consider it's a let down after MoP, and was genuinely suprised after i found out most people think the same. It's a sour taste for so many expansions.

[ZazuuPriest]

Or maybe they wanna break away from all this story paths they are forced to build on. Giving them a more clean start for new story strings

They're entirely too concerned with intersectionality and identity politics to ever produce a good story again, let alone anything original. All they can hope to do is rehash old shit but replace established characters with BIPOC alphabet people.

[Sarethion]

With Denathrius working with the Jailer, and the Nathrazim working for Denathrius, I think that's the strongest threads weaving all the way through the Warcraft story.

I would agree with this if they tried to set up the Nathrezim having ulterior motives and a different master in Legion. I mean, maybe there was something, but the big reveal didn't really come until Shadowlands, which to me seems more like Blizzard making some last minute retcons to have the Jailer connected to things rather than that being the logical, natural progression of the story.

[TheFirstOnes]

I personally do think so, actually. Just wish it wasn't told like actual dogshit. Zereth Mortis and the Sepulcher personally look amazing, and the Jailer could've been WoW's best Villain, but he's not. And that's upsetting. As for the other stuff, I don't think the Jailer retcons anything from War 3, as the same things still occur, the Dreadlords now have a genuine source for their deception against the Legion now, same with Ner'Zhul...kinda?

This threat also ends all the loose ends since WC3, tbh. The Legion's defeated and Sargeras is imprisoned, the Old Gods are gone and the Alliance/Horde are in an armistice, we met the Titan Pantheon and saved Azeroth's World Soul, and now we're finishing up the LK Plotline and are saving the Cosmos from this neigh Omnipotent Death God trying to claim the Sepulcher of WoW's Creator Gods. Seems like a good way to finish up a story, regardless of how you think the place looks.

I don't see the issue here with going this far into the Cosmic shit. Y'all seriously complaining after slaying a World Soul, and canonically facing off against many of the Cosmos' most dangerous beings in TBC? The fuck? Why is NOW where you draw the line?

[Vasilisa]

Oh, how so? Could you elaborate? I'm genuinely curious what makes you think that! Perhaps there's something that I've missed!

I hope you're not baiting me into some kind of counter-argument war... But anyway, current story was being built for the few expansions already starting from Vol'jin's death, through Sylvaanas reign until now where we arrived in Shadowlands, the realm of dead, where all living things appear after death or their corporeal forms being destroyed. Here after "some" events we are going to face the evil mastermind who disrupted the flow of the whole universe. Atop of that that's going to be in a place where "The First Ones" created all Shadowlands.

We are going to restore the Shadowlands to it's former self and the balance by doing so. For me it's like closure not of the chapter but the whole story for our characters. I don't see what what or whom we could face that would feel intimidating after facing death itself. Galactic eating monstrosity? Time itself? I know that there are possibilities but I from my perspective our characters story has reached it's peak and ending.

From story perspective now it'd be the time to go for different arc with new characters. Just it's not going to happen in mmo-rpg. Unless they are planning "Wow2" which is unlikely and probably for different discussion.

[Usernameforforums]

They just trying to pull final fantasy 14. Endwalker is actually ending a story and starting a new one through coherent methods of storytelling. Whereas WoW has been a shambled mess feeling more episodic with tiny bits of loose ends to go on years later.

[Skirdus]

It is, but that story is NOT the same one started in WC3. It's one they blatantly pulled out of their asses around the time of BfA, long after the true story of WC3 had already been concluded in Legion

[czarek]

Totally not. That is rubbish trash talk of devs. They just do want to mention it like that "OHH THATS THE END OF WARCRAFT SAGA WOOOAA" no no no its just bullshit. They do know they went to far in the corner and want to go out with that idea. Are we stupid ? No.

[Sarethion]

I hope you're not baiting me into some kind of counter-argument war...

Not at all, I just enjoy reading what other people think and having a chat

Vol'jin's death

That's actually something I fogot about. Fair point.

For me it's like closure not of the chapter but the whole story for our characters. I don't see what what or whom we could face that would feel intimidating after facing death itself. Galactic eating monstrosity? Time itself? I know that there are possibilities but I from my perspective our characters story has reached it's peak and ending.

What about the First Ones? They're obviously much stronger than the Jailer, so if Blizzard wanted a more intimidating villain, they'd be a pretty solid choice. Though, obviously, it would be absurd to have us fight someone so powerful, but then, the same can be said about the Jailer, imo.

[Vasilisa]

What about the First Ones? They're obviously much stronger than the Jailer, so if Blizzard wanted a more intimidating villain, they'd be a pretty solid choice. Though, obviously, it would be absurd to have us fight someone so powerful, but then, the same can be said about the Jailer, imo.

Yes, that's exactly the reason why for me it feels like it's the closure of our character stories. Jailer is far more powerful then anything we've faced before, could be counted as "comic" force. We ofc could go fight First Ones but as you've said yourself it's becoming even more absurd. Especially paired with the regular quests ("go bring me 5 bones, kill 3 enemies and don't forget the towel I've left by the lake") we do everyday.

[Beefhammer]

I think it would be rather unsatisfying if our player characters returned to Azeroth and have found that decades have passed (possibly centuries), and almost everyone they knew is dead. Their society and culture has moved on without them and they are now a stranger in a familiar land, and all of their efforts have amounted to nothing as the world falls back into turmoil.

If there is going to be a WoW 2, do what Guild Wars 1 did: end the game with the player character of GW1 having saved the world from crisis and no new calamities emerge within his lifetime. He retires and has many children. Then you have GW2 which takes place hundreds of years later and is about evil rising again, and it is up to the descendants of the heroes of GW1 to tackle this. After all they had been through, the heroes of GW1 finally lived happily ever after.

It would be unsatisfying if everything stayed the same. For one, we know time moves differently, so coming out and things being the same wouldn't make sense. Two, it would be so safe and boring if nothing changed or we find out N'zoth was just playing with us and took over(so done with old gods). Three, it give them a chance to make massive sweeping changes to Azeroth, and the game at once

[MoanaLisa]

Won’t really be able to judge until it plays out. If Danuser is suggesting a new path for the story (and the game) after Shadowlands that is probably a good idea. Whether they make good use of it is another question.

In any case I didn’t vote because there’s not enough known and the poll, in effect, is asking about the writing team.

[Sarethion]

Yes, that's exactly the reason why for me it feels like it's the closure of our character stories. Jailer is far more powerful then anything we've faced before, could be counted as "comic" force. We ofc could go fight First Ones but as you've said yourself it's becoming even more absurd.

Personally I've reached that point with Sargeras, especially given that we had to lock him up, because he was too strong to fight head on, but I understand that for you the cut off point is just placed differently. I respect that.

In any case I didn’t vote because there’s not enough known

I've specifically made an option for people with that opinion, but if for some reason you don't find it appropriate, that's fine.

At any rate, I assure you that the question was intended to ask about the story and / or what Steve said, not about the writing team itself.

[hulkgor]

As someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, it can be understood that this first book of the Warcraft Saga could be the "Book of Nathrezim", since the Dreadlords have been responsible for everything we've faced so far, ever since the RTS.

Not that farfetched at all, and i'm genuinely curious to see what comes next.

edit :

i would like for us to actually LOSE vs the Jailor, or at least be unable to prevent his plan, despite defeating him, and someone catastrophic happens, and the next chapter of the game would be a decently sized time jump, where Azeroth, or every living realms are in shambles, and we're 'back' at to an anonymous adventurer in a 'new world', with new enemies and threats.

[Mr. Smith]

It feels genuinely insulting to all of the original writers to imply that their stories are a part of this (comparatively) sloppy mess that the new writers have concocted.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

People are blowing this out of proportion holy moly...


When was Sylvanas created? WC3

When was Arthas introduced and developed? WC3

When did Uther die? WC3

When did Jaina have her time to shine? WC3


^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm pretty damn sure this is all Steve is talking about, not the Burning Legion arc, and definitely not the First Ones/Progenitor Lore. That's part of his new book/chapter.

[TheFirstOnes]

Okay, if you look at it this way, I agree - Shadowlands does conclude Sylvanas' story. Or, at least, it seems that it will.

That said, I got an impression that Steve meant something more than the story of one character, hence the threat and my opinion. If I simply misunderstood him then that's my mistake and I have no further issue with Steve's words.


I do absolutely agree with that. I also feel like they really dropped the ball by not having more character moments in this expansion.


As in - we're no longer just defending Azeroth, but the wider balance of the cosmic forces? Okay, I can see that, though in that sense, Shadowlands seems more like a beginning of a book, not an end, because it's the first time we so openly meddle with grander cosmic powers.

You do realize Chapters can end while also starting new ones, yes? Like, Part 1 can lead into Part 2, etc.

[Houle]

You do realize Chapters can end while also starting new ones, yes? Like, Part 1 can lead into Part 2, etc.

thats now how they are trying to market it tho. they arent saying this is the end of an old chapter AND the beginning of a new, they are saying its the definite final chapter of WC3, and something new will start AFTER this.
and it definitely isnt. the fact that they are trying to claim this, when none of the current writers have even worked on WC3, is almost insulting, to both the fans and the original writers of WC3.

imagine some random writer suddenly publishing LotR4, where he pulls a big super villain out of his ass and says "this is the guy who manipulated morgoth and sauron into doing evil things" and then tries to sell it as the "final act of the LotR story".

the big super villain didnt exist before, he didnt manipulate morgoth and sauron, and it definitely isnt the big final act of LotR, bc tolkien himself had absolutely nothing to do with it and didnt want it that way.
this is whats basically happening here

[TheFirstOnes]

thats now how they are trying to market it tho. they arent saying this is the end of an old chapter AND the beginning of a new, they are saying its the definite final chapter of WC3, and something new will start AFTER this.
and it definitely isnt. the fact that they are trying to claim this, when none of the current writers have even worked on WC3, is almost insulting, to both the fans and the original writers of WC3.

imagine some random writer suddenly publishing LotR4, where he pulls a big super villain out of his ass and says "this is the guy who manipulated morgoth and sauron into doing evil things" and then tries to sell it as the "final act of the LotR story".

the big super villain didnt exist before, he didnt manipulate morgoth and sauron, and it definitely isnt the big final act of LotR, bc tolkien himself had absolutely nothing to do with it and didnt want it that way.
this is whats basically happening here

I personally don't care, regardless. Also, not every plotpoint was set up in WC3. This is the end of the plotpoints from the original RTS games, but there's still stories to be told. Life and Death is balanced again (Granted, we haven't seen An'she yet or anything, but I do think we'll see them in 9.2...even if for a bit?), the Titans are still with Sargeras and we've yet to see their plane, Light and Shadow still need to be solved (With the Plane of Light, the Void Lords, K'aresh, and what the First Ones did with their workshops when making them + the machine of Light and Shadow), we don't know what the Demons of Disorder are doing, Sargeras is still pissed, the Dragon Isles are a thing, Turalyon and Lothraxion are still out there, and we've only seen 1 Workshop of the First Ones. Hell, we probably won't actually meet the First Ones at all, or they'll probably be the literal final Endgame of WoW itself, but I doubt it.

- - - Updated - - -

There's still lore to be told here. But everything that was set up in WC3 is done once this expansion ends, retcon or otherwise.

[Jackstraw]

I checked the trailer out after a long hiatus from anything WoW.

The quote from Danuser made me unreasonably angry.

A drama in three parts? A farce in a line more like.
The conclusion of everything since Warcraft 3? Nothing made me feel more in the parts of wanting to see the credits roll than defeating Argus the Unmaker. In almost anything I played.

The whole thing is so insulting to me, so insulting in fact I understand I'm still way too attached to this game. After all unhealthy relationships are hard to grow out of, it seems.