Poll: Do you feel SL is the conclusion to a bigger story?

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  1. #81
    No.
    Arc 1=W3-WOTLK
    Arc 2=Cata-Legion
    Arc 3=BFA-Now
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  2. #82
    If they could tell us something relatable soon it would maybe make sense. How about that sword from Sargeras? How about the Void Lords Sargeras was so afraid of?

    If they go there, the WC3 story wont end before Light vs Shadow is being told as main story of an expansion.

    They gotta do a lot of conclusive story tellling in 9.2 if they want to sell that pitch of WC3 story ending then.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    If they could tell us something relatable soon it would maybe make sense. How about that sword from Sargeras? How about the Void Lords Sargeras was so afraid of?

    If they go there, the WC3 story wont end before Light vs Shadow is being told as main story of an expansion.

    They gotta do a lot of conclusive story tellling in 9.2 if they want to sell that pitch of WC3 story ending then.
    That's the problem: there's sooo many loose plot threads and vague/rushed storylines that even if someone was invested in the story, there's nowhere near enough time to get a satisfactory ending. If Blizz somehow managed to wrap things up neatly, 9.2 would be the largest narrative patch that would rival entire expansions.

    There's several problems going on that just completely detract from the experience.

    One large issue is the transmedia concept that Danuser completely embraces, which fragments the lore intentionally to make more money... so to understand everything, you need to spend money on all the books as the game is not enough. In the earlier days of WoW, plot points and motivations were wholly contained within the game, and the novels at the time were supplemental fun that generally delved into topics that weren't part of WoW or weren't 'required reading' to understand the game story. Heck, there were even lore books in the game that covered a LOT of background information if you were curious, going into WC3 lore or other histories of the world.

    Furthermore, the entire plot is insanely rushed, and this goes back to even BfA. Whether it's a strict adherence to timetables or just bad writing, this entire story arc just skips over motivations, inciting incidents, plot points, etc. to where your average player is probably lost or just can't get invested in the story. The irony is that the plot could actually work... if you spent a lot more time developing it. A common complaint is that the big bad Jailer who is supposed to be the bad guy is basically a nobody that we cannot be invested in, and that's completely the fault of the implementation of him. We barely know anything about him, we have very little to no understanding of his true motivations or what he actual wants to do beyond vague platitudes, and we've spent barely any time with him. The best thing Blizz could do is that we do not kill him and allow him to remain an overarching bad guy into the future, allowing us to have more interactions and experiences with him, building up his threat (or even just defining what it is)... but I have a sneaking suspicion that we're just going to beat him and forget him. At the very least, I think we need at least two or three expansions (not patches) to get us invested in a new big baddie that the Jailer is supposed to be.

    The most frustrating part is that this story feels like and is executed like an elementary school kid's fanfic, and it doesn't have to be.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-11-14 at 01:24 AM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I felt like MoP 5.4 was more of the endpoint of Warcraft's story. The Legion was a TFT plot thread that became less and less important as WoW went on. Kil'jaeden's defeat in BC made it feel like "yeah, we blew up Archimonde and pushed back Kil'jaeden and liberated Outland. The Legion won't be coming back for a long time, and if they do, we'll easily beat them back anyway", so I felt like there wasn't really a need for a Legion expansion. By the end of MoP 5.4, pretty much all of the plotlines that had begun in WC3 had been wrapped up in some way or another. Not all of them wrapped up satisfactorily, but all were wrapped up.

    Starting with WoD, the story begins using contrivances to keep bringing back old threats because the creators didn't have the imagination to create new stories and villains (and probably because corporate wanted to capitalize on WC3 brand name recognition like Grommash/Illidan/Sylvanas). Shadowlands had the potential to be great as we were exploring brand new material, and it didn't need to be shoehorned back into the old WoW story.

    The whole "Shadowlands ends the first book of the Warcraft saga thing" is quite obviously Blizzard desperately flailing in FFXIV's shadow, which has been praised for its storytelling. I've voiced my gripes with FFXIV's storytelling over in its megathread. FFXIV's whole story was not planned out, and the Garlemald arc was cut entirely, but the writers have been able to pretty successfully make up the story as they go along and convincingly sell their audience on their first playthrough that it was actually planned all along, with the seams only appearing upon closer inspection on a second playthrough. The story is coherent. Character motivations are clear. Important reveals and character motivations aren't shoved into books and then retconned a few years later. The long term storylines do eventually have a payoff. FFXIV's cast isn't my most favorite ever, but I do care about almost all of the characters to some degree or another.
    Heavensward was amazing. Story, characters, music. I loved it all. Stormblood is fun too, but as of right now Heavensward is my fav

  5. #85
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Steve Danuser bites off more than he can chew and stands on the shoulders of moderately-competent writers to shore up his own crushing mediocrity, more at 11.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by thottstation View Post
    When they say "conclusion", they mean retirement. Retirement of wow characters and lore they despise.

    You have to remember: the WoW team hate the people who made the lore and the characters. They actively despise the Cosby Crew, and all their creations. And they're infuriated that people like those creations.

    So the new WoW team are actively retiring or replacing characters and concept with new versions of their own.

    • Titans? No; First Ones.
    • Titanic Keepers? No; Eternal Ones.
    • Emerald Dream? No; Ardenweald.
    • Sargeras? No; Jailer.
    • Minions of the Old Gods? No; Devourers.
    • Valk'yr? No; Bastion.
    • Ethereals? No; Brokers.
    • Arthas? No; Anduin.
    • Scourge? No; Maldraxxus.
    • etc... etc...



    The WoW world, it's lore, and the characters therein were all created by evil people, and those people are gone now.

    The new WoW team are actively and systemically removing everything the old WoW team created and replacing them with "close-enough" characters and concepts in the hopes that players can transplant that love from the old to the new. Those they cannot kill off entirely, they rewrite to make them unpopular.


    The Night Elves and their home are beloved and popular and unique to WoW and are what drew many people in decades ago?
    - Burn the tree, kill them all.
    The new Lich King is popular and fans are eagerly waiting for him to rise up?
    - Take him out like a pissant. And break that stupid helmet.
    Varyan and Vol'jin are popular old-school characters with tons of backstory and potential story arcs?
    - Kill 'em off.
    Azshara and Nazjatar built up and anticipated for decades?
    - Finish it in a patch.
    Elune and Sylvanas are popular, but too popular to kill off?
    - Rewrite them to make them idiots so players will be more than happy to discard and forget them.
    Have we depowered and removed those stupid Doomhammer and Ashbringer things?
    - Good, good...

    ...etc.

    And once the core tenants of WoW are replaced, the WoW team can finally begin the Next Chapter™ of World of Warcraft: The rise of Taelia Fordragon to the throne, Calia Menethil's leadership of the Forsaken, and their uniting of the Horde & Alliance against the common threat of
    Xal'atath.
    With the bonus stories of Magatha Grimtotem's redemption arc, Thalyssra dealing with Lor'themar's death and helping Liadrin become leader of the Blood Elves, Tess Greymane mourning the death of her father and her rise to the throne, and Talanji waging her own war against the Alliance by killing Muradin and Magni, sparking a blood fued against the dwarves now supreme ruler, Moira Thaurissan.


    And any pushback or negative reviews of their C-grade new product is dismissed as "trolling" or QQ tears from angry, petulant, bigoted manbabies. Because the new WoW team are beautiful and brave and the work they do is wonderful. Blizzard isn't a place to create product based on metrics like "popularity" and consumer appreciation; Blizzard HQ is a place to teach and shape and mold the new generation of leaders and creators in a positive, nurturing environment. And all Blizzard staff must stand together and hold strong against the toxic players who don't hate your product, but your demographic.

    Ignore the toxic players saying the product is bad! Stay on Twitter. The only REAL feedback are the suportive comments from your friends at Blizzard HQ.

    Shadowlands is great. The lore is wonderful. The Jailer is an amazing, deep, complex character, as are all the others.

    There is no negativity in the dojo.
    One of the rare times I wish this forum had an upvote feature. Bravo. Expect the Cassandra treatment.
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    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
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    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
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  7. #87
    Where are people getting "first book" as he said the final chapter of ONE book. It most certainly can and will be the final chapter of "A book" of the Warcraft story like he said whether you want to believe it or not.

  8. #88
    @thottstation

    Afrasiabi was in charge for most of BFA and hence organized the vast majority of those points and he has been around since WoW first started. He's the originator of the "no negativity in the dojo" quote too. Danuser is responsible for Shadowlands, but BFA and its consequences is on Afrasiabi and in as much as he's trying to nuke what others have made it's him being assmad at Kosak for doing the evil Warchief plot first and so copying it verbatim and worse.

    WoW doesn't lend itself to the easy cutting off point of 'old writers who respect the material are there, story is good' to 'new writers who don't respecct the material take over, story is bad'. The writers in general are completely hit or miss and don't even respect their own material. Metzen did the orc backstory and was behind the plotting of TFT then was the team lead when all the TFT characters got turned into insane raid bosses in TBC while that backstory was retconned so the draenei could be hot and therefore playable. Danuser was the number 2 in BFA while Sylvanas was turbo Satan and then completely switched track to bring us to this retarded redemption plot in SL. Afrasiabi was head honcho both in building up Bolvar as the best version of the Lich King post-WC3 and in turn him into a clown as he was still on the team as lead when the SL intro came out.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-11-14 at 09:13 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post

    Afrasiabi was in charge for most of BFA and hence organized the vast majority of those points and he has been around since WoW first started. He's the originator of the "no negativity in the dojo" quote too. Danuser is responsible for Shadowlands, but BFA and its consequences is on Afrasiabi and in as much as he's trying to nuke what others have made it's him being assmad at Kosak for doing the evil Warchief plot first and so copying it verbatim and worse.

    WoW doesn't lend itself to the easy cutting off point of 'old writers who respect the material are there, story is good' to 'new writers who don't respecct the material take over, story is bad'. The writers in general are completely hit or miss and don't even respect their own material. Metzen did the orc backstory and was behind the plotting of TFT then was the team lead when all the TFT characters got turned into insane raid bosses in TBC while that backstory was retconned so the draenei could be hot and therefore playable. Danuser was the number 2 in BFA while Sylvanas was turbo Satan and then completely switched track to bring us to this retarded redemption plot in SL. Afrasiabi was head honcho both in building up Bolvar as the best version of the Lich King post-WC3 and in turn him into a clown as he was still on the team as lead when the SL intro came out.
    Are you sure Afrasiabi was still at the helm that late into the production of Shadowlands? Because I got the impression that Danuser was in charge for most of BfA. I distinctly remember that it was Danuser who told us that 8.2 was a clever retreading of the MoP story and it was also Danuser who gave all of the story related interviews during the expansion's lifespan.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Are you sure Afrasiabi was still at the helm that late into the production of Shadowlands? Because I got the impression that Danuser was in charge for most of BfA. I distinctly remember that it was Danuser who told us that 8.2 was a clever retreading of the MoP story and it was also Danuser who gave all of the story related interviews during the expansion's lifespan.
    Afrasiabi was in charge at least up to and including 8.1 when he was quizzed on the Wrathgate thing. He only dropped off of Linked-In around the SL announcement. Incidentally, SL is the transition from Sylvanas as turbo Satan and Afrasiabi's focus on Saurfang, him being the one who both penned the bit in Stonetalon where Garrosh fondly recalls Saurfang's advice and being the self-admitted writer for her in WPL which is the portrayal closest to her BFA-self. The second he flies out you can see the shift in how both characters are committed - Sylvanas goes from the Devil incarnate to UwU victim and Saurfang goes from someone worth churning out multi million dollar cinematics on who's funeral ties the world together to being a trinket with no one even referencing his name. Ditto how the second Kosak flew, Afrasiabi did Mists 2.0 in revenge for Mists 1.0. The only one who doesn't do this petty BS is Metzen since all the stuff he adjusted he'd made himself.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-11-14 at 07:15 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  11. #91
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    The Icecrown story ended in Wrath, but Danuser in his infinite wisdom decided to open Pandora's box again with Sylvanas' story.
    No, it didn't. Remember: "There must always be a Lich King."
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The "first book of the Warcraft saga" concluded here:



    BfA and Shadowlands are filler.

    The "second book of the Warcraft saga" is about to begin, and it will be about Light and Void, the two fundamental forces of the Warcraft franchise since the very beginning.
    Idk how anyone could possibly believe that wasn't the end of the story tbh. Sargeras was always the big bad of the game. Him being dealt with would've been the end of the series if this were a single player game lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by thottstation View Post
    When they say "conclusion", they mean retirement. Retirement of wow characters and lore they despise.

    You have to remember: the WoW team hate the people who made the lore and the characters. They actively despise the Cosby Crew, and all their creations. And they're infuriated that people like those creations.

    So the new WoW team are actively retiring or replacing characters and concept with new versions of their own.

    • Titans? No; First Ones.
    • Titanic Keepers? No; Eternal Ones.
    • Emerald Dream? No; Ardenweald.
    • Sargeras? No; Jailer.
    • Minions of the Old Gods? No; Devourers.
    • Valk'yr? No; Bastion.
    • Ethereals? No; Brokers.
    • Arthas? No; Anduin.
    • Scourge? No; Maldraxxus.
    • etc... etc...



    The WoW world, it's lore, and the characters therein were all created by evil people, and those people are gone now.

    The new WoW team are actively and systemically removing everything the old WoW team created and replacing them with "close-enough" characters and concepts in the hopes that players can transplant that love from the old to the new. Those they cannot kill off entirely, they rewrite to make them unpopular.


    The Night Elves and their home are beloved and popular and unique to WoW and are what drew many people in decades ago?
    - Burn the tree, kill them all.
    The new Lich King is popular and fans are eagerly waiting for him to rise up?
    - Take him out like a pissant. And break that stupid helmet.
    Varyan and Vol'jin are popular old-school characters with tons of backstory and potential story arcs?
    - Kill 'em off.
    Azshara and Nazjatar built up and anticipated for decades?
    - Finish it in a patch.
    Elune and Sylvanas are popular, but too popular to kill off?
    - Rewrite them to make them idiots so players will be more than happy to discard and forget them.
    Have we depowered and removed those stupid Doomhammer and Ashbringer things?
    - Good, good...

    ...etc.

    And once the core tenants of WoW are replaced, the WoW team can finally begin the Next Chapter™ of World of Warcraft: The rise of Taelia Fordragon to the throne, Calia Menethil's leadership of the Forsaken, and their uniting of the Horde & Alliance against the common threat of
    Xal'atath.
    With the bonus stories of Magatha Grimtotem's redemption arc, Thalyssra dealing with Lor'themar's death and helping Liadrin become leader of the Blood Elves, Tess Greymane mourning the death of her father and her rise to the throne, and Talanji waging her own war against the Alliance by killing Muradin and Magni, sparking a blood fued against the dwarves now supreme ruler, Moira Thaurissan.


    And any pushback or negative reviews of their C-grade new product is dismissed as "trolling" or QQ tears from angry, petulant, bigoted manbabies. Because the new WoW team are beautiful and brave and the work they do is wonderful. Blizzard isn't a place to create product based on metrics like "popularity" and consumer appreciation; Blizzard HQ is a place to teach and shape and mold the new generation of leaders and creators in a positive, nurturing environment. And all Blizzard staff must stand together and hold strong against the toxic players who don't hate your product, but your demographic.

    Ignore the toxic players saying the product is bad! Stay on Twitter. The only REAL feedback are the suportive comments from your friends at Blizzard HQ.

    Shadowlands is great. The lore is wonderful. The Jailer is an amazing, deep, complex character, as are all the others.

    There is no negativity in the dojo.
    It's funny because I'm not even certain they're sitting in an echo chamber ignoring the negativity and writing it off like you think. I believe they know they're putting out a shit product, but don't care because it's profitable.

  13. #93
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Most expansions of WoW, if not all, were the direct consequence of WC3. Our characters lived in the paradigm created in the aftermath of WC3. I feel like it could very well be the end of that paradigm. In Legion, we got rid of the Legion. In BfA, we got rid of the Old Gods. In Shadowlands, we're getting rid of the Scourge for good. Bolvar was the last Lich King and with the Jailer gone, his creation will be gone too. And now the Jailer is searching for the device that would help him mold reality to his taste. Even without that, even if we succeed to stop him before everything, there's no telling how much time has passed since we entered the Shadowlands. The Alliance/Horde opposition might be quite different. Notice also that we are playing the only expansion in ten chapters of WoW where the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance plays absolutely no role what so ever. Notice also that the title of that last patch is "Eternity's End". That's no coincidence. That was the title of the very last chapter of Warcraft 3.

    So, yeah, I would say that it feels like the end of something and the begining of something new.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  14. #94
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    Maybe if Arthas had a larger role, sure, exploring his afterlife, the details of his time as Lich King (was his soul the fiirst trapped in Frostmourne, was it not? Is he irredeemable, or redeemable?) Sure, but since he has a very small role in Uther's very boring story arc, and all the focus is on the charisma vacuum AKA Undead Kratos, AKA Zovaal, not to mention the even less interesting Arbiter, then no. None of this was ever mentioned in the original RTS games. Arthas and Sylvanas are the final threads, but not in any meaningful way. Sylvanas' story should have ended YEARS and expansions ago, Arthas' story had ended with Wrath, they just decided to re-animate it while having dragged Sylvanas' story on, and on to this point of irrelevant annoyance.

    Nothing is concluding with Shadowlands. Nothing concluded with Legion, either. We didn't kill Sargeras, meaning they'll pull that back out when convenient or when they need a villain. WoW is Days Of Our Lives, the MMO version. Any would-be finales are normally bastardized at a later time to tack on a new chapter and cash in on that nostalgia.

    Don't act like Shadowlands is the first expansion they did this in, this all started with WoD. Shadowlands is just the first to do it this badly since WoD.

  15. #95
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Maybe if Arthas had a larger role, sure, exploring his afterlife, the details of his time as Lich King (was his soul the fiirst trapped in Frostmourne, was it not? Is he irredeemable, or redeemable?) Sure, but since he has a very small role in Uther's very boring story arc, and all the focus is on the charisma vacuum AKA Undead Kratos, AKA Zovaal, not to mention the even less interesting Arbiter, then no. None of this was ever mentioned in the original RTS games. Arthas and Sylvanas are the final threads, but not in any meaningful way. Sylvanas' story should have ended YEARS and expansions ago, Arthas' story had ended with Wrath, they just decided to re-animate it while having dragged Sylvanas' story on, and on to this point of irrelevant annoyance.
    I'm not talking about Arthas, I'm talking about the Scourge/Lich king thread. The "there must always be a Lich King" thread.

    Nothing is concluding with Shadowlands. Nothing concluded with Legion, either. We didn't kill Sargeras, meaning they'll pull that back out when convenient or when they need a villain. WoW is Days Of Our Lives, the MMO version. Any would-be finales are normally bastardized at a later time to tack on a new chapter and cash in on that nostalgia.
    True, I guess. But for now it is over. While the Scourge still existed after Arthas' demise.

    Don't act like Shadowlands is the first expansion they did this in, this all started with WoD. Shadowlands is just the first to do it this badly since WoD.
    You're talking about the absence of A vs H conflict? Maybe you're right. I guess that's why Horde and Alliance followed two different storylines and why there was that constant battle in Ashran...
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  16. #96
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    I do remember that yes, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

    Arthas was dead, and he had purged Ner'Zhul from the helmet before he died.

    The story was over and "There must always be a Lich King" at the time merely meant that it ended bittersweetly.

    Bolvar sacrificed himself to be the jailor of the damned, but it was only YEARS later that the crown was shown to have corrupting effects, in Legion.
    Yes, and people have been speculating for years about what was happening with Bolvar. It began right at the end of the cinematic, when Bolvar's voice changed. The subject "The return of the Lich King" was quite frequent on this forum. Some even believed it would be an expansion.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    But then, maybe I'm wrong, so I ask you - how do you feel? Would you agree that Shadowlands feels like a conclusion of a greater Warcraft story?
    No. Absolutely it isn't. I can only assume this quote is based on the fact that this is going to be the conclusion to Sylvanas' storyline or something, but it's incredibly mischaracterized to say that it's a continuation of any Warcraft story. Syvlanas' Warcraft 3 story ended when she threw herself off of ICC. This story started in between Cata and MoP at the absolute earliest.

  18. #98
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Of course isn't, Danuser is retconing his way into the saga, while ruining the lore. is like saying Melkor/Morgoth was just a pawn into some even greater threat.

    They ruined the burning legion saga with the Legion expansion, it close a chapter but was awfully done, didn't feel accomplishing, good or entertaining, we didn't even deal with Sargeras as he was frozen to be used later.

    they want to say bfa ended something too, but it was just a copy paste of MOP, same problem as legion, no one felt good at the end of BFA.

    Shadowlands is nowhere closing anything from Wc3, they just shoved the janitor as the mastermind guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by natpick View Post
    so blizz expect me to believe that when i played warcraft 3 all those years ago, this was the plan all the time? what a load of bullshit,there just trying to make it like mcu with the phase 1-4 and so on,they already ripped off anything thats popular along the way,these guys are deluded serously.
    My toughts as well, i can't even believe they said this shit with a straight face

    blatantly copying MCU shenanigans but with no quality, the first thing i though when is aw those golden runes was the eternals and the celestials, guess Danuser watched that movie and just got a spark of inspiration.

  19. #99
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Yes, and people have been speculating for years about what was happening with Bolvar. It began right at the end of the cinematic, when Bolvar's voice changed. The subject "The return of the Lich King" was quite frequent on this forum. Some even believed it would be an expansion.
    and they did said since the crown was destroyed the entire scourge would be free and we had to fight it, it only lasted the pre-patch and its done, if it was that easy bolvar became the lich kinf for fun.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    And I thought people who fragrantly stretched the truth were uncommon..

    I've never seen a finer example of people looking for something to be angry with, and mob-like think rather than individually paced assessment of what the fuck Steve meant.


    He clearly didn't mean what you're all making it out to be, his wording might've been bad, but you really, really think this guy couldn't have expected a reaction like this if what was what he meant?

    I'm not defending the guy, I'm calling out the obvious voluntary oversight by so many here to justify this as an outlet for their anger.
    Well, no, you are 100% defending him. Thats unarguably what this is, and mob-think? People are just discussing here.

    "His wording was bad..." "this guy couldn't have expected a reaction like this..."

    Well he said what he said. We have no other choice but to take what he said and dissect he because nothing else has been said. Conversely, you are reading what he said and taking it how you want it.

    "Cmon guys! Thats not how he meant that!" is just defending him and replacing his words with head canon, I don't know what else you think you're doing here. We can only take what he said and discuss unless he clarifies, or affirms it, or specifically says that isn't how he meant that.

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