Shadowlands feels like fan fiction written to an already completed story.

[Syegfryed]

When they said they were "closing plots left that go back to warcraft 3" genuinely made me angry.

i don't believe they are so self-centered to think we will eat that shit of statement, implying the crap they are doing now, somehow was a masterplan all connected to the warcraft 3 more than 10 years ago.

"lets shat on the previous lore, open holes and claim we are just closing the wounds we purposely create so we can pat ourselves on the shoulder saying how awesome the lore was"

[Varodoc]

Does Danuser think that the customers (players) of this game are genuinely stupid? Does he think that we'll look at the Janitor and think "Ah Yes, finally, so that's the guy who has been controlling Ner'zhul this whole time, I have wanted to see him revealed for so long"?

The sheer gall of saying "this closes the threads from WC3"; as if the Janitor wasn't blatantly retconned into the story at the end of BfA.

In WC3, it was made clear that the Lich King was created by Kil'jaeden the Deceiver for a dual purpose: as punishment for Ner'zhul's previous failures, and to serve as cannon fodder in anticipation for the return of the Burning Legion on Azeroth, succeeding where the Old Horde had failed.

All of this Janitor crap is very clearly just an asspull/retcon made because Blizzard ran out of enemies after wasting N'Zoth and Azshara, both of whom could have easily had their own expansions.

[Tanaria]

Of course this feels like fan fiction.

This is all Danuser. You can tell this is all him, because his favorite is at the front of center of it and everyone around her acts stupid.

I understand that writers can have their favorites, but this shouldn't bleed into telling a story.
I love the characters of Lor'themar Theron and Arcanist Valtrois, but I wouldn't push them into every single story and continuously use them in every expansion and WoW cinematic.

Look at WoD. Everyone who wasn't an Orc fan, rolled their eyes. "Great - more Orcs."
It's the exact same here, only it's Sylvanas and Anduin. "Beloved character by many" he said...who are the "many" because all I see are people who hate Anduin, because he is the route problem to the Alliance's story. He actively hinders story progression for actual good characters like Alleria Windrunner.

[Ersula]

Of course this feels like fan fiction.

This is all Danuser. You can tell this is all him, because his favorite is at the front of center of it and everyone around her acts stupid.

You cannot tell me Dansuer *likes* Sylvanas. He likes Anduin, and by that I mean he likes Arthas: That's why he turned him into a carbon copy of him. If Dansuer liked Sylvanas, Sylvanas fans might have actually liked this storyline & they universally & vocally do not. Same for Tyrande.

[Aucald]

You cannot tell me Dansuer *likes* Sylvanas. He likes Anduin, and by that I mean he likes Arthas: That's why he turned him into a carbon copy of him. If Dansuer liked Sylvanas, Sylvanas fans might have actually liked this storyline & they universally & vocally do not. Same for Tyrande.

You're going to get hit with a wall of Danuser's previous tweets within the hour, just a forewarning.

[Tanaria]

You cannot tell me Dansuer *likes* Sylvanas. He likes Anduin, and by that I mean he likes Arthas: That's why he turned him into a carbon copy of him. If Dansuer liked Sylvanas, Sylvanas fans might have actually liked this storyline & they universally & vocally do not. Same for Tyrande.

It's as clear as day.
Why do you think she's getting a redemption arc? Who do you think has wrote this nonsense where she was oblivious to the Jailor's end goal, even though it was clear to everyone else?

The Burning of Teldrassil and the sacking of Lordaeron - "It was baldy's idea, guys...not mine!!"

[Daronokk]

Does anyone else feel this way? Its disconnected and our sole connection is the few characters that tagged along and the cryptic connections to old lore that we never knew existed.

What is worse is that BFA was used to deconstruct and wrap up whatever loose ends we may have had to make this atrocity happen.
That's what makes me sad the most I think. Shadowlands we can all collectively forget it happened but BFA? You can't unring those bells.

This is exactly why I don't play Shadowlands. Even Warlords of Draenor made more sense. It felt like Warcraft at least.

Shadowlands feels like a different franchise. It's like a poor chinese copy trying to be like WoW.

[Vakir]

That's because it literally is.

And I don't even mean it disparagingly where "fanfiction" is short for "bad" in some fan circles, as obviously some fanfic can be good and transformative.

The people writing Warcraft now, whether they were always fans or not, are of the age where they had to have grown up with the property in the first place. It's an old enough franchise where that's the case and a lot of our interfacing with story points is going to be informed by how we culturally were impacted by it.

That's why so much stuff lately is rooted in all the older games and why crap like the Jailer and First Ones fall flat. It really does feel like overtaking and either explaining or modifying cultural milestones because of how important they are to us or because we want a "clean" resolution. Over-extending the importance of Sylvanas, Anduin, Arthas, etc. because of what they mean to us rather than how they naturally fit the story.

It's not dissimilar to how comic writing is extremely insular.

You cannot tell me Dansuer *likes* Sylvanas. He likes Anduin, and by that I mean he likes Arthas: That's why he turned him into a carbon copy of him. If Dansuer liked Sylvanas, Sylvanas fans might have actually liked this storyline & they universally & vocally do not. Same for Tyrande.

You can like something and not understand it.

I see good intentions with how Sylvanas is looked at and addressed by the writing but it's fundamentally misunderstood by a group of, or one, hack(s).

Steve can be an idiot and still want he perceives as best. What the writers fail to understand is, good or bad, redeemed or not, Sylvanas looks like a patsy and is robbed of agency. But the over importance lent to her? Still reeks of fandom. Just as they did with making Illidan Space Jesus to an extent.

[Toho]

You're going to get hit with a wall of Danuser's previous tweets within the hour, just a forewarning.

Hows 17 minutes instead of an hour?

You cannot tell me Dansuer *likes* Sylvanas. He likes Anduin, and by that I mean he likes Arthas: That's why he turned him into a carbon copy of him. If Dansuer liked Sylvanas, Sylvanas fans might have actually liked this storyline & they universally & vocally do not. Same for Tyrande.

Nathanos is a mirror copy of an idealized version of danuser himself lmao... how could you be so wrong all the time?
Its astounding.

[Vakir]

Honestly? While I'm firmly in that camp to believe it's legitimate, I think the Danuser stuff is still missing the forest for the trees.

The problem has less to do with Sylvanas being a writer's pet at this point and has infinitely more to do with her being a poorly written and implemented character by the very same team who appears to like her - no matter if you like her or not. She looks like a complete and utter idiot and has been effectively devoid of any worthwhile decisions. That's not something I'd expect of someone who wants his queen to be untouchable, so instead it looks more like they don't know what they're doing than it does that they're maliciously trying to shill her. If they are trying to shill her, they are failing spectacularly.

That's why I think, if this is the work of one dude's elf-boner, he doesn't really seem to understand the character he's so in love with and doesn't seem to get why people are/were compelled by Sylvanas.

Whether Steve Danuser is a giant fanboy, wants to bone her, whatever, there's no getting around the implementation and problems with writing more than the intentions behind it. The same with Christie Golden and her love for Anduin. Is it wrong to have a golden-haired goodboi peacenik? Absolutely not. There's legitimacy in the existence of idealistic character archetypes to go with anti-heroes or villains or whatever. But when it becomes so heavily disruptive to any narrative conflict and becomes short-hand for whether we're meant to agree with a character or not, it stops being compelling.

That's why it's infuriating to say this "closes" the loop on any of the stories that came before. Sylvanas' story as it relates to WC3 ended at the end of Wrath. She didn't get her chance for vengeance, she felt hollow, she threw herself off Icecrown, and then in finding despair in death, she found a new purpose. But then they just retread that same ground because they couldn't leave it the fuck alone. The Jailer added nothing to this conceit.

[Ersula]

You're going to get hit with a wall of Danuser's previous tweets within the hour, just a forewarning.

Just because he says it doesn't make it true. I haven't met a single Sylvanas fan who likes this storyline.

- - - Updated - - -

Nathanos is a mirror copy of an idealized version of danuser himself lmao... how could you be so wrong all the time?
Its astounding.

Okay to clarify, he clearly likes "His" version of Sylvanas: the Sylvanas that popped into being the moment he was in control of WoW's story. But that Sylvanas has nothing to do with the Sylvanas that's existed in WoW for 14 years. That sylvanas has nothing to do with Warcraft 3 sylvanas.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I expected it to be longer and more optimistic. The plot was rather saddening for me. The fact where we were literally tricked by the Dreadlords which made the gameplay completely hopeless. I felt like someone just took 6 years of my life. Now, I really hope Zereth Mortis will be different. More fun with nice things to discover and most importantly I hope for a positive and glorious expansion ending like it was in Legion. Not that the good people will die and be forgotten and villains will get a second chance. Such concept is unfair.

[Toho]

Okay to clarify, he clearly likes "His" version of Sylvanas: the Sylvanas that popped into being the moment he was in control of WoW's story. But that Sylvanas has nothing to do with the Sylvanas that's existed in WoW for 14 years. That sylvanas has nothing to do with Warcraft 3 sylvanas.

Again you are wrong.

During Danuser's takeover of the narrative team we have had several books, comics, novellas and in game events serrounding Sylvanas and even her own inner monologue.

To say Sylvanas has been a hodgepodge of contradictions and outright lies is an understatement.
Maybe you should listen to the unwashed obese man on youtube who knows so much about lore more carefully.

Sylvanas today has nothing to do with Three Sisters Sylvanas, And neither of those two has anything to do with Dark Mirror Sylvanas. And None of these Sylvanas' have anything to do with before the storm Sylvanas. And these are all contradictions to game sylvanas... and now we have ANOTHER book trying to explain things again.
Enough. Enough already.

Quite simply you have no idea what you are talking about and I have lost braincells trying to process this nonesense you put out with every one of your posts.

[Zuben]

Honestly, all of WoW has felt this way since MoP ended. Even Legion's story wasn't actually that good. WoD, Legion, BfA, & SL feel like a completely different story, in a completely different franchise that have Warcraft characters grafted on to the top.

Perhaps there are some people who looked at Maldraxxus and thought "Oh, so that's where the Scourge got that from!" On my end it just came across like a cheap way to do callbacks, while severely undermining & devaluing prior lore.

Not a fan!

I admit there were moments I pondered what the actual Death Deity might be, as Lich King was merely a demon-made construct with a designed purpose. All that death power had to come from somewhere and now we have our answer.

Too bad it's all very lame.

[Ersula]

Again you are wrong.

During Danuser's takeover of the narrative team we have had several books, comics, novellas and in game events serrounding Sylvanas and even her own inner monologue.

To say Sylvanas has been a hodgepodge of contradictions and outright lies is an understatement.
Maybe you should listen to the unwashed obese man on youtube who knows so much about lore more carefully.

Sylvanas today has nothing to do with Three Sisters Sylvanas, And neither of those two has anything to do with Dark Mirror Sylvanas. And None of these Sylvanas' have anything to do with before the storm Sylvanas. And these are all contradictions to game sylvanas... and now we have ANOTHER book trying to explain things again.
Enough. Enough already.

Quite simply you have no idea what you are talking about and I have lost braincells trying to process this nonesense you put out with every one of your posts.

For all the times you say I'm wrong it sounds like you agree with me completely. I said his writing of Sylvanas is a huge contradiction. I didn't say Sylvanas hasn't been a contradiction since Dansuer showed up.

[Toho]

For all the times you say I'm wrong it sounds like you agree with me completely. I said his writing of Sylvanas is a huge contradiction. I didn't say Sylvanas hasn't been a contradiction since Dansuer showed up.

Lord give me strength... the guy is not just some random writer. He is the lead narrative designer not a single piece of media is put out without his supervision. So... again. You are wrong or you simply cannot understand the words written to you in plain english.

[McNeil]

It literally is. The story should have gone as far as dealing with the Burning Legion and Old God's as the big bad guys, but with both of them gone they need to start pulling all kinds of asspulls so we ended up with the Janitor. And we have the writers inserting themselves into the game with Danuser simping all over Sylvanas and Golden looking at Anduin as her ''golden boy''. I may have given them some slack for trying something new rather than returning the same villains over and over again, but they also damaged the old and established lore from the older games who were all written by the original writers. Not saying that the old lore is a work of art either but you don't just paint over the Mona Lisa either.

I also consider WoD a fanfiction ''what if'' expansion, but at least it is completely instanced in its own realm and doesn't hurt the old lore at all. In some cases they even managed to write some of the old orc warchiefs quite well (Blackhand, Gul'dan, even Kargath despite cutting him short in Highmaul).

[Feanoro]

As a wise poster once said, "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and World of Warcraft died with him."

Lord knows BC and Wrath stories had major flaws, but at least until then it felt like Warcraft. Cata completely ruined Deathwing, one of the worst cases alongside Kael'thas, as well as giving us Warchief Meathead and the permanent damage it did to the Horde in game and out. MoP was every Asian stereotype in existence, so although the setting was refreshingly different at first, it got old really fast. WoD aka Orc to the Future, well since Blizz just plain gave up on it... It reeked of Metzen putting an idea on a napkin while stoned out of his mind, then regretting it when learning his beloved orcs would look bad. Legion was desperate fanservice and began the trend of completely wasting entire settings. Argus should have been an expansion. BfA was "How can we piss off everyone, no matter which faction?" SL seems like "WoD was bad? Hold my beer."

@Varodoc The Black Empire was wasted, Nazjatar was wasted, N'Zoth was wasted, Argus was wasted. Danuser seemed to just be trying to burn though all those things so he could finally proudly show us his "completely original" ideas like the Scour... um, Maldraxxus. And of course the Tita... er, First Ones. Obviously, the unprecedented threat of Sarg... er, the Janitor.

Dansuer insinuating that after this he'll be able to tell the stories he really wants gave me big Steven Moffat series 10 of doctor who vibes.

I wouldn't give him that much credit. Compare him to Chinballs.

Nah, calling SL fan-fiction is insult to fanfictions. For all the bad rep they get, fanfictions can actually be really good, and are often written by people who are sincerely passionate and invested into franchise. You can't say the same thing about SL.

Well said.

[geco]

Nathanos is a mirror copy of an idealized version of danuser himself lmao... how could you be so wrong all the time?
Its astounding.

The problem is, he doesn't see Sylvanas as a superior or an equal. He sees her as a "trophy wife." That's why for example in BFA his pj is stealing Sylvanas's camera all the time.

He is not a "symp of Sylvanas" he wants Sylvanas to be a Simp of him.

I mean, it's like the Jarold and Shandris / Maiev relationship. Jarold is not there for Shandris or Maiev to be better characters or to give them more depth. Shandris and Maiev are here to make Jarold more important. That is why in the story of Shandris and Maiev Jarold he does not do anything relevant.

@Varodoc The Black Empire was wasted, Nazjatar was wasted, N'Zoth was wasted, Argus was wasted. Danuser seemed to just be trying to burn though all those things so he could finally proudly show us his "completely original" ideas like the Scour... um, Maldraxxus. And of course the Tita... er, First Ones. Obviously, the unprecedented threat of Sarg... er, the Janitor.

The funny thing is that Shadowland was that "his super new and original ideas" But now that failure tries to say that it is a part of W3.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I've been saying this since Legion, which contrived a Horde vs Alliance war again, and was about fighting the Legion which wasn't a threat since Sunwell.

Warcraft's story ended with 5.4. Pretty much all of the plotlines that had begun in WC3 had finished. The world was at peace and there was closure. For future stories like Shadowlands, it should have been completely disconnected from the prior saga. Go to a new planet with a completely brand new cast of characters. Let the cast of Azeroth have their happy ending. Or, if the franchise was going to continue to be set on Azeroth, do what Guild Wars 1 did: end the game with the player character of GW1 having saved the world from crisis and no new calamities emerge within his lifetime. He retires and has many children. After all they had been through, the heroes of GW1 finally lived happily ever after Then you have GW2 which takes place hundreds of years later and is about evil rising again, and it is up to the descendants of the heroes of GW1 to tackle this.

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WoD aka Orc to the Future, well since Blizz just plain gave up on it... It reeked of Metzen putting an idea on a napkin while stoned out of his mind, then regretting it when learning his beloved orcs would look bad.

Nonsense premise aside, I thought WoD was pretty cool, though I wonder how the original idea of a Mongrel Horde expansion would have turned out (Garrosh uniting the minor, throwaway races of WoW like Murlocs, Gnolls, Kobolds, Quillboar, etc, and forming a Mongrel Horde to take revenge).