Shadowlands feels like fan fiction written to an already completed story.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I think the grievance is understandable, but "fanfiction" isn't the accurate complaint here; As Aucald put it, Warcraft lore has always been by committee, without a singular vision; it has always been a franchise driven story and narrative instead of an individually crafted story.

Indeed, the problem IS that warcraft just keeps feeling more removed of what it once was, with Shadowlands trying something so out there feeling too disconnected, but I really think we would have had so much more faith in them if BfA had been good: I don't think the problem is SL's narrative by itself, but that BfA killed the good faith the playerbase had.

Imagine if BfA had been a great expansion that satisfied our desire to return to those roots of the Horde/Alliance conflict, SL would have gotten to stand on its own as a new chapter into the cosmology of Wartcraft, instead of carrying the baggage of BfA.

I don't hate the SL narrative, but I don't love it either, but I really think that is mostly BfA's fault why I can't be fully on for the raid rather than SL's actual quality, specially when SL's biggest narrative issues are the ones caused by BfA rather than its own.

If Sylvanas motivations had been streamlined and well set up in BfA, and we didn't had to keep fixing Teldrassil, I genuinely believe SL's story would be far better received.

[RichardRoe]

Most fan fictions are more competently written.

Entire BFA: Sylvanas got a secret plan. Just wait, all her actions will turn out to be a big-brain play.
First half of Shadowland: Sylvanas got a secret plan. Just wait, all her actions will turn out to be a big-brain play.

Now: Nah, she had no plan, she just got fooled by the most obvious lie ever told. The Jailer literally had to spell it out for her that she was his servant... After she had served him for a decade?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So... N'Zoth really did win.

And what we are experiencing this expansion is delusional fever dream-adventurers of every mortal involved in 'BfA'... while N'Zoth is watching from the outside with this expression:

[Varodoc]

The problem with that is, to me personally, that after an entire old god patch, the last thing I wanna see is an entire old god expansion. I'm already tired of the theme halfway through the patch.

And the setting of this expansion is good or fresh? The Maw is literally Icecrown but with a red filter applied to it.

[Chend]

And the setting of this expansion is good or fresh? The Maw is literally Icecrown but with a red filter applied to it.

Yeah, the Maw looks nothing like Icecrown. And there's 4 additional zones that look like nothing else in the game. But even if this expansion was boring, it wouldn't change what I said about having an entire old god expansion right after an old god patch.

[Lochton]

Does anyone else feel this way? Its disconnected and our sole connection is the few characters that tagged along and the cryptic connections to old lore that we never knew existed.

What is worse is that BFA was used to deconstruct and wrap up whatever loose ends we may have had to make this atrocity happen.
That's what makes me sad the most I think. Shadowlands we can all collectively forget it happened but BFA? You can't unring those bells.

Eh, feels a little better pushed in than WoD. WoD truly had fan-fiction feeling.

[Varodoc]

Yeah, the Maw looks nothing like Icecrown. And there's 4 additional zones that look like nothing else in the game. But even if this expansion was boring, it wouldn't change what I said about having an entire old god expansion right after an old god patch.

> The Maw looks nothing like Icecrown

> It's canonically stated that Icecrown was built as a reflection of Torghast on Azeroth

And there's 4 additional zones that look like nothing else in the game

This man really just said Ardenweald doesn't look like Val'sharah and Shadowmoon Valley and Maldraxxus doesn't look like the Plaguelands

[Chend]

> It's canonically stated that Icecrown was built as a reflection of Torghast on Azeroth

Icecrown Citadel.

- - - Updated - - -

> The Maw looks nothing like Icecrown
This man really just said Ardenweald doesn't look like Val'sharah and Shadowmoon Valley and Maldraxxus doesn't look like the Plaguelands

Really doesn't.

[Rasula Elfbiter]

Starcraft 1 might qualify, given that the player was strung along by Mensk and helped wipe out the capital world of Tarsonis and all of its inhabitants and aiding a ruthless madman's rise to power. Also now the galaxy is being threatened by a new dark lord, Kerrigan, and the player is now a wanted fugitive on the run. It's not a total downer ending but the story ends with the bad guys having the upper hand and the heroes in a bad spot.

Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls ends with Diablo being resurrected (again!), but this was supposed to conclude in the second D3 expansion that got cancelled.

Well, actually Blizzard have a tally of games ending with villain victories.

Warcraft 1 - probably doesn't count as it had 2 mutually exclusive campaigns, but canon is that orcs won.

Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal - Ner'zhul and Teron Gorefiend collect all the artifacts, destroy Draenor and escape into the Twisting Nether, while Khadgar & Co manage a heroic sacrifice and go MIA.

Diablo 1 - the hero pulls out Diablo's soulstone and plunges it in his/her head. One of the sequel's big points is that all 3 heroes got corrupted (Warrior becoming Diablo, Rogue becoming Blood Raven, and Mage becoming the Summoner)

Starcraft 1 - in the Terran campaign, Mengsk basically wins.

Starcraft 1: Brood War - Sarah Kerrigan wins, all heroes are dead or get shafted. One of the darkest endings in all the series.

Diablo 2 - Diablo is defeated but Baal fools Marius and retrieves his soulstone.

Diablo 2: LoD - Baal is defeated but the Worldstone is destroyed.

Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne - another dark example, Lordaeron is beyond recovery, the campaign is essentially demons' servants vs. undead. Undead win. Even in bonus campaign orcs and humans become mortal enemies again.

I think even WoD's finale counts, as Gul'dan escapes to the Tomb of Sargeras and it's pretty clear next stop is Legion invasion. And Draenor is left in the care of a genocidal warmonger (Grom) and Light's fanatic (Yrel).

[FAILoZOFF]

Nah, calling SL fan-fiction is insult to fanfictions. For all the bad rep they get, fanfictions can actually be really good, and are often written by people who are sincerely passionate and invested into franchise. You can't say the same thing about SL.

I was about to write "that" comment, but noticed you already did. And yes: 100% exactly this.
Whole of WoW (its story as well) doesn't feel like its being worked on by "fans", not even enthusiasts... proffesionals? Perhaps! But thing doesn't feel right in any way, nor does it show any kind of "soul and heart" so to speak.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

To be honest with you guys I requested constellar story to Blizzard many times, but I didn’t anticipate it will be so damn upsetting. I thought it will be shiny and fun. That we will time travel, see titans and all the juicy stuff. Now we have Shadowlands and for the whole expansion I was literally emotionally broken. Entered the Maw, Torghast or Sanctum and when I seen all this upsetting stuff I was pretty much done. I like Bastion and Ardenweald though. At least they are less depressing. Zereth Mortis looks amazing too. First thing I will do when I enter there I will bathe in one of their epic lakes and steal all battle pets from there so I will have some good memories out of that zone. Haha

[Raven]

Shadowlands feels like a couple of story writers trying to make the best possible out of a story someone else created and then got fired before the story was finished.

[sighy]

I think the grievance is understandable, but "fanfiction" isn't the accurate complaint here; As Aucald put it, Warcraft lore has always been by committee, without a singular vision; it has always been a franchise driven story and narrative instead of an individually crafted story.

Indeed, the problem IS that warcraft just keeps feeling more removed of what it once was, with Shadowlands trying something so out there feeling too disconnected, but I really think we would have had so much more faith in them if BfA had been good: I don't think the problem is SL's narrative by itself, but that BfA killed the good faith the playerbase had.

Imagine if BfA had been a great expansion that satisfied our desire to return to those roots of the Horde/Alliance conflict, SL would have gotten to stand on its own as a new chapter into the cosmology of Wartcraft, instead of carrying the baggage of BfA.

I don't hate the SL narrative, but I don't love it either, but I really think that is mostly BfA's fault why I can't be fully on for the raid rather than SL's actual quality, specially when SL's biggest narrative issues are the ones caused by BfA rather than its own.

If Sylvanas motivations had been streamlined and well set up in BfA, and we didn't had to keep fixing Teldrassil, I genuinely believe SL's story would be far better received.

Here you kind of get into a conundrum, because the worst parts of BfA existed directly to establish Shadowlands and get the characters, into their starting positions for Shadowlands. (Sylvanas being by far the most contorted by the end of it)

[Aresk]

Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls ends with Diablo being resurrected (again!), but this was supposed to conclude in the second D3 expansion that got cancelled.

It does? I remember the Evils (and rest of the souls) are released from the soulstone and then there's speculation that the nephalem will go on to be an even greater threat than the demons and angels, but the only thing I recall about Diablo is that Adria said he'd be back (eventually). What am I forgetting?

[Irian]

Shadiowlands is a pretty major shark-jumping moment as a whole. I feel like they just sorta unwrote the entire universe and added a bunch of "new" characters that are just carbon copies of the previous ones. Automa even have fucking gnomes.

I don't think the franchise can recover because nobody's still working on WoW that is even interested in recovering it. They all pat themselves on t he back and act like they're doing a great job when the entire playerbase has already tuned out the entire story.

[Beefhammer]

It does? I remember the Evils (and rest of the souls) are released from the soulstone and then there's speculation that the nephalem will go on to be an even greater threat than the demons and angels, but the only thing I recall about Diablo is that Adria said he'd be back (eventually). What am I forgetting?

Nothing. Their souls were released which means they returned to the burning hells. Only Imperius believes the nephalem could be a threat. Diablo nor any of the other 6 returned after Malthaels defeat.

[Myradin]

Its not fanfic but it does feel like its trying to drag out a story that's already over.

The scourge is defeated.
The legion is defeated.
The old gods are defeated. There's the 'void lords' but they haven't really been properly introduced yet, and probably will just be old gods 2.0.
The naga are defeated though their leader is still at large.
The horde v alliance story has pretty much played out all it can it seems with these writers, getting continously more annoying every time its dredged up.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Here you kind of get into a conundrum, because the worst parts of BfA existed directly to establish Shadowlands and get the characters, into their starting positions for Shadowlands. (Sylvanas being by far the most contorted by the end of it)

Indeed, and that's the issue, I think SL needed certain characters to be in certain positions, and BfA did so in the laziest and just worst way possible.

They could have written a far better "Sylvanas betrays the Horde" story for BfA, one that could have come as a reveal rather than dumped on us on pre-patch with Teldrassil and then offer no real insight until a vague reference to "serve death" in one quest.

It feels everything got bogged down by the Burning of Teldrassil, which even by now is nothing but an unresolved tragedy just for shock value. It fucked Sylvanas character, it fucked the NE narrative by robbing them of resolution.

BfA could have done a much better job to get Sylvanas to where was needed, and not mess up the NE lore so badly that they have to keep addressing it, and failing to give a satisfactory resolution.

But we got some cool Saurfang cinematics I guess *shrug*

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

> The Maw looks nothing like Icecrown

> It's canonically stated that Icecrown was built as a reflection of Torghast on Azeroth



This man really just said Ardenweald doesn't look like Val'sharah and Shadowmoon Valley and Maldraxxus doesn't look like the Plaguelands

But there is no ice in the Maw at all.

Revandreth and Bastion are very unique.

Ardenweald I'll give you, but Maldraxxus isn't exactly a clone of either of those zones you mentioned.

[sighy]

Indeed, and that's the issue, I think SL needed certain characters to be in certain positions, and BfA did so in the laziest and just worst way possible.

They could have written a far better "Sylvanas betrays the Horde" story for BfA, one that could have come as a reveal rather than dumped on us on pre-patch with Teldrassil and then offer no real insight until a vague reference to "serve death" in one quest.

It feels everything got bogged down by the Burning of Teldrassil, which even by now is nothing but an unresolved tragedy just for shock value. It fucked Sylvanas character, it fucked the NE narrative by robbing them of resolution.

BfA could have done a much better job to get Sylvanas to where was needed, and not mess up the NE lore so badly that they have to keep addressing it, and failing to give a satisfactory resolution.

But we got some cool Saurfang cinematics I guess *shrug*

Worst part about Sylvanas Betrayal plot is that it means nothing. She has effectively done nothing of consequence, before flopping back to our side making it all
a pointless waste of our god damned time. Because seriously think about what would have changed if Sylvanas didn't join the Jailer. (Answer is absolutely fucking nothing)