Covenant Abilities... why didn't they just...

[ro9ue]

let us pick the mechanics and recolor it to the Covenant? Anyone wonder why they didn't just give us another talent row, hell even cut the worst of the 4, so it's just 3 new abilities per class and then based on your covenant selection you get the utility ability and a recolor to the Shadowlands Talent row abilities based on covenant?

[Vellus]

Because people would complain about the lack of covenant identity, laziness on blizzards end for not wanting to create more than 4 spells, etc etc. Can't win either way

[Relapses]

"Why didn't we only get 3 choices instead of 4?"

I don't know, maybe because there's four Covenants?

[Azerate]

At this point, asking that question is just being disingenuous or wilfully ignorant.

Whether you agree with that or not, the devs' vision was that covenants were to be this semi-permanent choice with an assortment of gameplay features tied to them. They did not want to just give you abilities to switch whenever you wanted. They wanted to go the RPG route, but the vocal minority rebelled because they were conditioned to chase the meta.

[Chipped coin]

At this point, asking that question is just being disingenuous or wilfully ignorant.

Whether you agree with that or not, the devs' vision was that covenants were to be this semi-permanent choice with an assortment of gameplay features tied to them. They did not want to just give you abilities to switch whenever you wanted. They wanted to go the RPG route, but the vocal minority rebelled because they were conditioned to chase the meta.

I mean most classes had 90% + of their population as the same covenants it's time to stop calling them a minority..

A loud minority cried "we want 90s era text rps" blizzard paid the price for ignoring the majority of its playerbase

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Blizzard wanted to try adding rpg elementals into the game and see how it would play out likely to inform rather they should try and keep adding more rpg elements back into wow in the future.

They likely thought people would pick fun over min maxing as tons of people say that’s what they want but In reality people just chase numbers.

[Hitei]

Because they aren't just an issue of colors, some of their entire mechanics are based around the covenant type. Which is significantly more involved.

I mean most classes had 90% + of their population as the same covenants it's time to stop calling them a minority..

A loud minority cried "we want 90s era text rps" blizzard paid the price for ignoring the majority of its playerbase

This is not even remotely factual. There are only a few (read: 3-4) specs that even had 90% choice consistency, let alone 90% of a class.

[CalamityHeart]

Simplest answer is probably because that's just not how they wanted to go about it. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if something similar to exactly what you're suggesting was put on the floor as a way for them to handle covenant abilities while they were hammering out the whole thing, but what was ultimately decided upon was a way to make each covenant feel like it has a unique and, dare I say, meaningful effect on your playstyle. Your covenant is more or less the nexus of your playing experience in Shadowlands. If there was a way that they could make your choice of covenant more significant, they were going to do that. That in mind, between unique abilities for each covenant, and unique abilities outside of your choice of covenant, in which the only thing your choice of covenant affects is what color your ability is and what sound it makes, the devs more than likely wanted the former.

[unbound]

Anyone wonder why they didn't just give us another talent row, hell even cut the worst of the 4, so it's just 3 new abilities per class and then based on your covenant selection you get the utility ability and a recolor to the Shadowlands Talent row abilities based on covenant?

They are trying to avoid another talent row because they don't want to spend money on having to maintain another line of talents with balance. Despite what some on this site would claim, it wouldn't be *that* hard...but any effort means less profit, so they are trying to avoid it.

TBH, this has been one of the big frustrations I have with the current state of the game. For at least 3 expansions now, my character has not grown at all. He only gets temporary powers and then moves to the next expansion having learned absolutely nothing for the past 6+ years. That's a great way to make a game stale.

[Chipped coin]

Because they aren't just an issue of colors, some of their entire mechanics are based around the covenant type. Which is significantly more involved.



This is not even remotely factual. There are only a few (read: 3-4) specs that even had 90% choice consistency, let alone 90% of a class.

Sorry where the others 80% across multi role classes?

However could I not split that hair?

What was the most diverse? 70%

[potis]

At this point, asking that question is just being disingenuous or wilfully ignorant.

Whether you agree with that or not, the devs' vision was that covenants were to be this semi-permanent choice with an assortment of gameplay features tied to them. They did not want to just give you abilities to switch whenever you wanted. They wanted to go the RPG route, but the vocal minority rebelled because they were conditioned to chase the meta.

Doubtful, its simply that they listened to a tiny % of their choice again, which fucked everyone else over.

"RPG roots" "RPG feeling" "Choices" and all that stupid stuff from single player games, which is probably the majority of the new blood joining WoW the last few years, sure they are okay there, not in WoW.

They could do many things differently, talent row oriented covenant ability changing was the correct choice (maybe not permanent for balance issues, but same as it always has been, without requiring to wear an item, just some sort of UI), as example, instead we got something atrocious.

[Chipped coin]

Simplest answer is probably because that's just not how they wanted to go about it. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if something similar to exactly what you're suggesting was put on the floor as a way for them to handle covenant abilities while they were hammering out the whole thing, but what was ultimately decided upon was a way to make each covenant feel like it has a unique and, dare I say, meaningful effect on your playstyle. Your covenant is more or less the nexus of your playing experience in Shadowlands. If there was a way that they could make your choice of covenant more significant, they were going to do that. That in mind, between unique abilities for each covenant, and unique abilities outside of your choice of covenant, in which the only thing your choice of covenant affects is what color your ability is and what sound it makes, the devs more than likely wanted the former.

How did hunter covenants go live then?

2 are mirror abilites with different cds. One simply replaces a spell the other is useless.

[CalamityHeart]

How did hunter covenants go live then?

2 are mirror abilites with different cds. One simply replaces a spell the other is useless.

*shrug* Don't ask me. I'm not a dev. I'm not really trying to defend their design choices, especially not on a class-by-class basis. I'm just saying what sounds to me like the soundest explanation for how they designed covenant abilities, compared to doing something like making it a talent row with interchangeable colors instead. That it was hit-or-miss depending on your class is neither here nor there.

[huth]

Because they aren't just an issue of colors, some of their entire mechanics are based around the covenant type. Which is significantly more involved.



This is not even remotely factual. There are only a few (read: 3-4) specs that even had 90% choice consistency, let alone 90% of a class.

I'm pretty sure for Druids there was also a big factor of most people considering Night Fae the 'RP appropriate' choice on top of it being a very strong Cov in 9.0. You still see a lot of Night Fae Moonkin even though it isn't the prime pick for all situations anymore.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Because Blizz thinks that the only way a choice has meaning in WoW is if it directly is responsible for power gain.

Maybe they're right, but as we all know it also means every choice has a mathematical "solution" that a majority of the playerbase will pick because every social structure that hasn't rotted away in the game demands 101% efficiency of even the most casual of player.


But absolutely Blizz needs to do something with talents, that's the granddaddy of all broken choices in WoW at this point. Covenants will be gone in 10.0, Talents won't.

[Chipped coin]

I'm pretty sure for Druids there was also a big factor of most people considering Night Fae the 'RP appropriate' choice on top of it being a very strong Cov in 9.0. You still see a lot of Night Fae Moonkin even though it isn't the prime pick for all situations anymore.

I don't think rp mattered looking at how the classes ended up. People picked the best one and you didn't see any one moving around till balance changes.

Then you saw a split between people who couldn't be fucked and people willing to regrind. It's annoying because the thing all the top end players said would happen, happened but they chose to ride it out anyways.

[Azadina]

They are trying to avoid another talent row because they don't want to spend money on having to maintain another line of talents with balance. Despite what some on this site would claim, it wouldn't be *that* hard...but any effort means less profit, so they are trying to avoid it.

TBH, this has been one of the big frustrations I have with the current state of the game. For at least 3 expansions now, my character has not grown at all. He only gets temporary powers and then moves to the next expansion having learned absolutely nothing for the past 6+ years. That's a great way to make a game stale.

If anything, the player characters are some of the crappiest heroes ever. Up till cataclysm, it was a learning experience for the classes, kind of like growing up and learning new things a long the way. Since then? They've forgotten most of what they've learned, much of the stuff that made them that class in the first place. What kind of a mage learns spells, and what it is to be a mage in 6 years; only to spend the next 10 forgetting much of their life ever happening?

[Hitei]

Sorry where the others 80% across multi role classes?

However could I not split that hair?

What was the most diverse? 70%

No?

[Chipped coin]

No?

Fair I guess we see some 50% out of four choices so a massive majority but not as massive as 80%

That said most of the more even ones were dead specs at the time...

[Hitei]

Fair I guess we see some 50% out of four choices so a massive majority but not as massive as 80%

That said most of the more even ones were dead specs at the time...

That's... not how math works, 50% is not a majority, let alone a "massive" one. You are also desperately trying to goal post shift from the original claim, which was that it was a vocal minority who were up in arms about being forced into a meta choice, not that people who pick the meta are a minority.