10.0 Revamp - Seems extremely likely now

[Relapses]

Nowhere did I say that the gain in popularity is because of housing. I was specifically responding to this, singular concatenation of your words:

I guess I just fail to see how housing keeps people subscribed more so than anything else WoW doesn't already do.

And this singular point is the basis of my entire discussion that is poised to educate you, because you admit to not knowing something, which is entirely fine. That's it. period, end of sentence.

Imagine cooking in your kitchen, someone comes in and starts telling you they fail to see how the boiling and freezing point of water are what they are: objective facts that aren't really opinion based. They argue with you on it, arguing basic science, and claim they "don't need to perform the experiment to feel the feelings they feel." Then, turn the page in the conversation, and they start speaking about a broader, more general scoped topic of science... But how much weight does their opinion hold, knowing how fundamentally lacking their understanding is? Not much.


Your followup only kind of doubles down on this. "I don't need to have a house in another game to know that I don't want a house in this game." You might be right, but you're also very clearly broadcasting that you know as little as possible about the subject, and like someone who struggles to understand the boiling or freezing point of water as fact, you seem to struggle understanding that housing is a strong pull to keep people subscribed as fact. If you fail to see it, then you're not trying / just incorrect.

No one anywhere is claiming FFXIV's sudden popularity is due to it's housing, and it isn't. I'm a software developer myself so yes, the idea that "the gain in popularity is due to the existence of housing" is something I've only ever heard coming from you. Don't think anyone is arguing that's the case. On the flipside though, the housing is playing a huge role in that player retention as others have mentioned, and THAT does play a role in it's ongoing popularity. Perhaps you mixed the two and in your aversion to player housing, feel the need to stress how unimportant it is?

WoW's popularity is tanking regardless of housing/lack thereof.. FFXIV's popularity is booming regardless of housing. WoW having a good housing system would be good for the game, regardless of it's tanking popularity. But it probably won't ever live to see it. These are all facts, and no where in them does anyone equate housing to the sole reason. WoW's problems could not be fixed by adding housing, as its problems are deeply system level.

I could have worded my post better but I didn't mean to imply that I couldn't understand why housing keeps people subscribed. I meant that when compared to the current retention mechanisms WoW already has, I fail to see why adding housing to that would be beneficial. This is because, as I've stated in other posts, I feel like WoW's current gameplay loop doesn't seem to encourage housing.

I restated my argument because I thought you had misunderstood my position but I see now that the misinterpretation was on my part. Apologies.

[AcidicSyn]

If player housing were added, it should exist entirely outside of the existing gameplay loop, like pet battles. Also like pet battles, it should be entirely optional. A player should be able to ignore it completely. This way, those who do not understand its appeal, are under no obligation to seek that understanding and those who enjoy it, can do so.

Though side note: Let's just pretend all arguments about housing are magically resolved and the devs decide to add a "proper housing system" interpreted as whatever you (as in the person reading this) defines as proper. I still don't see it being successful without first overhauling professions, and I love housing. (Though I don't think I'll ever see my own definition of great player housing in WoW, not without some herculean levels of change)

As for a revamp- I'm on board with any plan that results in silvermoon no longer being depicted as under attack by the friggen scourge. Hell, the Alliance could invade and take over the city, still don't care. Paint the towers blue, just update the damn place.

[MoanaLisa]

I see neither a revamp for 10.0 or player housing. Sorry. The 'evidence' presented is unconvincing and reads more like wishful thinking.

[Biggles Worth]

You all think they're capable of making the game better with a revamp have another thing coming.

[Zolaris192]

"ya legion was good, but it was a lot of work"

-ion hazzikostas

expect the bare minimum while continuing the 6 month sub crap

[bitterwinter]

I have a feeling with the way SL has been recieved, covid, and the lawsuit causing issues, I feel we are in for a long drought with a shockingly positive 10.0 ala legion. I have a feeling they have been working on a revamp and big changes at the same time as SL development. I believe they did some big hirings before and around SL development. So we could be in for something huge.

I do understand where you are coming from but I remain cautiously optimisitic. As I said earlier Blizzard has let me (and certainly a lot of people) down over and over again. We also have to consider that a full graphical overhaul of the world, plus new quests, storylines etc is an absolutely monumental task that I would say, personally, would at the very least had to have been worked on since Legion for us to get it next xpac.

[Sharby]

Full revamp? Probs not.


Full Cross-faction functionality? I think so.

[Coldkil]

I generally agree with Greg's take here that it's better to err on the side of innovation; however, I'm firmly of the belief that the innovation needs to be in the direction of things which already work in the game.

Couldn't say it better. Agree or not the ore gameplay loop of WoW still keeps people playing. The problem (to me) started to raise up after MoP when they went with "gimmicks" instead of game improvements (WoD garrison was the first) and then with Legion it started a whole new phase of "let's put a lot of middle-men tasks between leveling and endgame so people will have more to do".

The issue is not the borrowed powers/systems themselves - it's their implementation in game as short-lived and expendable features that are just going to be discarded and are basically filler to keep people online more hours. You can easily see that because when you pass the starting phase where everyone needs to do X before being able to raid/m+/whatever, people will just log in and raidlog, as they did in WoD.

Giving an example, Soublinds are a great concept as a talent tree with customizable options - they would be great as a base to rework class talent trees and make them something on the line that persists through time and can be expanded through expansions by adding new abilities to slot in. They will need maintenance over time removing/reworking useless options and avoid bloating. Instead we got this unlockables system that's basically "you get to full power after X weeks" with lots of rng involved that you already know is gong to disappear at the end of the year.

I'd like to see less thing in terms of quantity but more meaningful ones. As cliche and vague this sounds.

[Akta]

if housing is well implemented, it can be a game changing experience. They can spread houses slots all around azeroth making dead zones alive. they can add decorations recipes all around the game.

[CalamityHeart]

While I wouldn't exactly mind player housing, I don't really trust Blizzard to give it the level of attention that it'd need to have in order to make it an actually good feature. Player housing has the potential to be absolutely incredible, both a casual player and RPer/RP guild's dream come true. But with the amount of time and effort that would have to go into making the feature extensive and accessible enough to utilize all that potential, I'm hard pressed to believe that it's seriously on the table, unless they've been working on it since at least an expansion ago, and it's just the most well-kept secret in the office.

Putting that much of their back into what will absolutely have to be niche, optional content, like the comparatively tiny and simple pet battling feature? I really can't see them taking that sort of risk with their time and resources when it'd be much safer to devote their focus to what they know players want. I mean, it would be a nice surprise if they just knocked it out of the park and actually introduced huge, solid evergreen content in WoW like that, and it was a hit. But that doesn't really strike me as realistic.

[PaladinBash]

I see a revamp in some limited extent yes. I don't think they'll do a big overhaul because while they're arrogant enough to try and incompetent enough to screw it up, they will just not do it out of laziness.

[PenguinChan]

As much as I would love for them to revamp things (Because I loved Cataclysm, go figure), it puts a lot of sour tastes in peoples mouths. Even if you preserve the old content in some fashion. If we get any kind of 'revamp' it'd be some kind of timewalking consequence of the Jailer's new powers heading into the next expansion. That's where they could reel back on some things, and try NOT to accelerate to cosmic horror threat #48 in the first 30 minutes of an expansion. Will see how it turns out, but we've also been gearing up for bigger and bigger threats like always.

Void lords, Elune, Jailer himself, etc..

To most of the thread: Housing isn't going to come anytime soon. As much as I love it, think it'd fit and there is no reason why it shouldn't exist (Especially Blizzard's track record of quality editors) - you're all forgetting the main drive of that kind of content in the market: Monetization. We are not going to get a housing system people are going to like with how WoW's MTX is going, and I think that's something either side will agree on if Housing even became a thing. Sure, we'd get in-game rewards and have crafting be somewhat relevant again due to it (Something I think many people ignore); but that completely ignores the huge potential of making it a cash cow.

Like, don't get me wrong: I'm not against MTX, especially for cosmetic things. But I know exactly how this community reacts to things like that. Then again, us getting more of that and people are accepting it as a thing now - if they already haven't left / went to the classic servers only.

[Lady Atia]

As much as I would love for them to revamp things (Because I loved Cataclysm, go figure), it puts a lot of sour tastes in peoples mouths. Even if you preserve the old content in some fashion. If we get any kind of 'revamp' it'd be some kind of timewalking consequence of the Jailer's new powers heading into the next expansion. That's where they could reel back on some things, and try NOT to accelerate to cosmic horror threat #48 in the first 30 minutes of an expansion. Will see how it turns out, but we've also been gearing up for bigger and bigger threats like always.

Void lords, Elune, Jailer himself, etc..

To most of the thread: Housing isn't going to come anytime soon. As much as I love it, think it'd fit and there is no reason why it shouldn't exist (Especially Blizzard's track record of quality editors) - you're all forgetting the main drive of that kind of content in the market: Monetization. We are not going to get a housing system people are going to like with how WoW's MTX is going, and I think that's something either side will agree on if Housing even became a thing. Sure, we'd get in-game rewards and have crafting be somewhat relevant again due to it (Something I think many people ignore); but that completely ignores the huge potential of making it a cash cow.

Like, don't get me wrong: I'm not against MTX, especially for cosmetic things. But I know exactly how this community reacts to things like that. Then again, us getting more of that and people are accepting it as a thing now - if they already haven't left / went to the classic servers only.

Yeah, lets just not have housing because some vocal minority likes to cry about the evil evil ingame shop while loving the FFXIV shop at the same time. Honestly, the fear for MTX should never be a reason not to do a feature.

[Bakis]

Wouldn't surprise me if BLZ managed to create offline Battleground PvP next.

[kasuke06]

Then keep playing it. Player housing has no business being in WoW. Blizzard should focus on improving the things the game already does different from other games instead of trying to make it just like every other MMO on the market.

UUHHHH... Have you not played anything blizz has made since like 2000? Every single thing they've put together since is just a sterilized and polished version of someone else's idea, or a poorly received sequel, or starcraft 2.

I mean, hell just look at how hard they're trying to ape endwalker's "we're ending this really long story thread to start a new one" thing that blizz literally just tacked on in the 11th hour because shadowlands is dropping like it's wearing lead shoes and they need a successful idea now. Do you really think they just suddenly had an idea to do a long form story right when FFXIV happened started to take their market share? No, they're just trying to get what everyone else has with the least work possible.

Truth be told, I don't think this engine actually can do player housing. They would have done it years ago when wildstar was still a thing.

[Rucati]

I see no reason that they would go crazy revamping things.

10.0 would be a good time to do that, given it's a nice round number and all that, but I doubt they will and I don't really think it's even necessary.

Retail has plenty of good things about it, all they really have to do is iron out the bad things and the next expansion could be pretty solid. If they'd just stop making decisions that are very obviously bad and then not listening to people when they tell them to change I think it'd be fine.

Imagine if 9.0 launched without the crazy time gated Maw grind, with you able to freely change your covenant, and without Torghast existing at all (seriously the worst designed thing in the history of WoW, god damn). I actually think people would have enjoyed Shadowlands quite a bit, because all the other stuff in the game is pretty good.

So they just need to do that. Get rid of the shit that's obviously not good, I mean everyone knew covenants were a trash idea on day 1 and Blizzard refused to listen, retail can still be successful and fun with just a handful of changes. I don't think that they're really going to commit to a complete revamp at this point, that would be a pit preemptive I think.

[shoc]

if housing is well implemented, it can be a game changing experience. They can spread houses slots all around azeroth making dead zones alive. they can add decorations recipes all around the game.

I don't see the appeal of player-made dick monuments populating the old zones.

And any housing system that doesn't allow the construction of dick monuments obviously isn't worth shit.

[Ringthane]

if housing is well implemented, it can be a game changing experience. They can spread houses slots all around azeroth making dead zones alive. they can add decorations recipes all around the game.

Yeah, because if there's one thing that will bring the millions flocking back, it's putting up a sweet mansion in Desolace. I've been playing since the AQ patch in Vanilla, and if there's one zone I could barely move around in because it was so packed, it's Desolace. I've always said that would be an awesome place for a nice little villa, with a balcony overlooking...

Hmm. Is there even anything in Desolace worth looking at?

[TidalConflux]

A housing system would take a healthy amount of time and resources to create and implement -- and it will never happen without another WoD-esque punting of an expansion or more.

[DookuDookuTree]

Surely there must be thousands that could improve any game, too bad they don't work in the field tho & keep their ideas to themselves, & devs aren't interested, Blizzard removed the suggestion forum a decade ago. All too sad.