10.0 Revamp - Seems extremely likely now

[Coldkil]

-snip-

I don't see the long term success you talk about anywhere. It lasted 2 years like any other expansion, folowed by two very underpar ones.

Also the changes to endgame promoted a "must get everything immediately then leave" mentality, mythic ilvl gear is easily obtained by everyone, and content that was good removed (like mage tower). Now every expansion from Legion onwards has a sort of timegated farming system where you progressively unlock your character power which is really sad, instead of actually going into endgame activities or open world. More "parasitic" systems as you said that live in a bubble and we do because there's something we need in there and not because we want.

Legion worked well at the time because there was WoD before. It introduced design choices that are clearly making the game worse for a lot of players, given its current state.

We'll see what 10.0 will bring. I was more than happy with the classic "do your stuff once and then there's the raid". M+ is only to keep aswell cause it's really popular but it needs to be its own game mode and not a way for people to get powerful gear for raiding (and also the opposite needs to happen).

[Kithelle]

A lot of Shadowlands feels contrived and forced. However, if you start to look at it from the perspective of the developers who probably want to update their 17 year old game, the plot point of a mega Lich King with the keys to remake reality starts to make a lot more sense. (BTW, sidenote: I have a feeling the Jailer won't be choosing how to remake the reality, and the main characters will just come together to "fix" a few of their past mistakes - Thrall and Garrosh/Draenor, Sylvanas and Teldrassil, Jaina and stopping Arthas at Strath etc).

1) They don't want to do a WoW 2.0 and segment the playerbase. Both EQ/EQ2 and Destiny 1/2 already did this and the issues with it are quite clear.

2) They NEED to make MASSIVE updates to the game, one of the primary faction capitals of Stormwind looks like it's made out of Legos comparatively to any other modern WoW city.

3) A zillion loose ends with time period phasing. Does it make sense to update Outland when you have Draenor? Bronze Dragonflight NPCs everywhere that you talk to for different phases.

4) WoW's file size is getting larger and larger as we speak. Destiny 2 showed us that companies are willing to "vault" content to preserve file size. This is horrible in Destiny 2 in my opinion, but WoW has WoW Classic to hold and preserve the old zones. They're also clearly going to continue progressing classic servers so everyone will always get to play old stuff whenever they want - if they follow the EverQuest path you can have multiple server sets running in parallel at different chronological periods so everyone has access to a game state they want.

5) If you look at what the game lacks from the perspective of an entire team knowing they're going to be making dramatic updates. No player housing yet, when every other MMO has it, starts to make sense if they knew they were building up to a massive reconstruction of the game. These are massive player investments. Who the hell would make a house in Stormwind or Silvermoon if you had an option to do it in Suramar or updated Dalaran?

6) Players wondered where all the big class updates are, it makes sense to wait until something like this happens to make dramatic changes.


Does anyone else feel this makes the revamp way more likely given what we know what this is all building up to? The developers have led us, however confusingly, to a point where we have a method to remake reality, seems crazy they would squander it in the light of how badly WoW needs to be refreshed updated.

If they want to avoid a WoW 2...it's gonna take a completely overhaul to the point WoW is just almost a different game anyways, and that will probably take them years...

Same as above

Why not? Outland and Draenor are vastly different...even though they're the same planet...they've got little in common when it comes to look and feel

Games get bigger...there are already games that are 100+ gigs...so you think the devs should cut content just to save some hard drive space?

[fazaim]

I don't see the long term success you talk about anywhere. It lasted 2 years like any other expansion, folowed by two very underpar ones.

Also the changes to endgame promoted a "must get everything immediately then leave" mentality, mythic ilvl gear is easily obtained by everyone, and content that was good removed (like mage tower). Now every expansion from Legion onwards has a sort of timegated farming system where you progressively unlock your character power which is really sad, instead of actually going into endgame activities or open world. More "parasitic" systems as you said that live in a bubble and we do because there's something we need in there and not because we want.

Legion worked well at the time because there was WoD before. It introduced design choices that are clearly making the game worse for a lot of players, given its current state.

We'll see what 10.0 will bring. I was more than happy with the classic "do your stuff once and then there's the raid". M+ is only to keep aswell cause it's really popular but it needs to be its own game mode and not a way for people to get powerful gear for raiding (and also the opposite needs to happen).

Exactly my point, there is no long term success when they don't build on the parts that made an expansion successful. They build this world only to leave it behind, over and over again. We could've had many different Mage Tower types by now, with its own rewards and different settings. It's definitely a selling point as many people like solo challenges and that the transmog community is huge. Personally I came back in 9.1.5 for the 1800 rating transmog and will come back when mage tower opens. And who knows if they made the game more accessible in terms of gear that people would find other challenges to play for. I don't see why crafting shouldn't be rewarded with good gear, if some people want to craft their way into heroic raid ilvl so be it. There could be PvE challenges involved into that aswell, like "get the heart of that dragon to craft that piece of armor." Even if mythic+ is easy to gear up in, that doesn't mean it should be the sole channel to obtain gear.

My latter point of the post is that Warcraft wins when there's an adventurous feeling to it, which they've completely thrown out. When they sold the Shadowlands product, it was the Lich King cinematic that brought many, maaany players back, likely having fond memories of WotLK. In my group of friends, we were around 12 during the pre-patch, we talked nostalgically about getting into the Howling Fjords, climbing the land, progressing inlands as it got more and more scourgy for lack of better words until finally you enter Icecrown and the mysterious Storm Peaks towards endgame. And we kind of expected to relive that adventure in some sort of way. Instead, we're checking off a (sand)box on a map to then end up standing around in Oribos, every now and then looking down at the depressing Maw in the skybox, thinking "I'd like to never return but, as the quest reward says, I've been allowed(forced imo) to rescue 20 souls instead of 15."

Also, this game is huge, if a mythic+ player or mythic raider doesn't like Mage Tower and posts about it on these forums, that doesn't imply it has no broad appeal. If a PvP player doesn't like that Warfronts are the faction conflict in a PvE setting, that doesn't mean that other players don't like to experience the war part of the game like that.

[enigma77]

Uh? Havent you seen what they've done the past years, just play TBCC for a bit or classic, and go back to retail and you see the graphics is very much upto date for what the engine can do tbf.

- - - Updated - - -



Think thats what they wanna do? with a buisness?

yeah I think that's exactly what they're gonna do

[lolipopp]

WoW isn't going to die in 5 to 6 years.
As long as it makes enough money, they'll push out content for years.

Expansion cycles may become longer. It may go Freemium model that a lot of dying MMOs do. But, that model allows games that should have died to continue to go until it finally dies.

Yo u are right 5 years is way too much in 3 years this game ll have under 250k subs ! = no more money to waste for retarded systems that last 1 xpansion !
There is a chance the smaller the WoW gets the actually better game it ll become LEL ! Yes its that bad

When next " HYPED " exapnsion come in 1 year and sooner player realize its the same crap all over again ..u wotn see -55% drop in player base ...you ll see a snowball effect like 70% + drops after 1st tier.
WoW just offers nothing existing to work for nwodays and i ll tell you why .... T O K E N S and boosting services ruined any feel of acomplishemnt you used to get playing WoW hardcore...at elast for me and i am sure for million others !
There are the core problems in the game and they DONT HAVE THE BALLS TO ADRESS THEM ...its making them money on a short run but ll be thier dead on a long run and i think its very obviouse by now !
And we all know how greed ends ....i actually wish WoW fails really hard really like it should very soon cuz blizzard deserver that for all the disrespect they showed to thier 100 mil + fan base in the past 5-7 years giving them content they think they want not the content they deserve to have !!!!

[shise]

My biggest wow fear right now is that we wont see this until after 10.0, even a potential 11.0 as some sort of WOWII

I would love to have some sort of remake of Azeroth where the world becomes one big continent again. That would be insane.

Imagine the options:
Huge, laaaarge junge alreas with wild Zandalari, hige dinos...

Laaaaaarge areas of sand dunes and ancient civilization remains that would be quite fresh.

I mean, maybe that is taking it too far lol, but one can dream. It would be like going back to the very origins of what became Warcraft but with the current crew.
THat way we would not necesarily "rewrite" history, we would maybe rewrite pre-history

[Darththeo]

Yo u are right 5 years is way too much in 3 years this game ll have under 250k subs ! = no more money to waste for retarded systems that last 1 xpansion !
There is a chance the smaller the WoW gets the actually better game it ll become LEL ! Yes its that bad

When next " HYPED " exapnsion come in 1 year and sooner player realize its the same crap all over again ..u wotn see -55% drop in player base ...you ll see a snowball effect like 70% + drops after 1st tier.
WoW just offers nothing existing to work for nwodays and i ll tell you why .... T O K E N S and boosting services ruined any feel of acomplishemnt you used to get playing WoW hardcore...at elast for me and i am sure for million others !
There are the core problems in the game and they DONT HAVE THE BALLS TO ADRESS THEM ...its making them money on a short run but ll be thier dead on a long run and i think its very obviouse by now !
And we all know how greed ends ....i actually wish WoW fails really hard really like it should very soon cuz blizzard deserver that for all the disrespect they showed to thier 100 mil + fan base in the past 5-7 years giving them content they think they want not the content they deserve to have !!!!

If tokens and boosting ruin your sense of accomplishment, you never really had one in the first place.

[xenogear3]

If tokens and boosting ruin your sense of accomplishment, you never really had one in the first place.

The boosting discourages people to level characters.
There is no reason to spend hundred of hours to level a character while you can pay $$$ to skip it.

[Darththeo]

The boosting discourages people to level characters.
There is no reason to spend hundred of hours to level a character while you can pay $$$ to skip it.

You want to do it.
You enjoy doing it.
You are playing with friends to get there.
etc ...

There are tons of reasons to do it.

However, even if you are right, if the mere existence of boosting "ruins" your sense of accomplishment, you still never had one in the first place.
Boosting has been a thing since Vanilla but it was done in game by carries. People have bought boosts all the time.

[crusadernero]

My biggest wow fear right now is that we wont see this until after 10.0, even a potential 11.0 as some sort of WOWII

I would love to have some sort of remake of Azeroth where the world becomes one big continent again. That would be insane.

Imagine the options:
Huge, laaaarge junge alreas with wild Zandalari, hige dinos...

Laaaaaarge areas of sand dunes and ancient civilization remains that would be quite fresh.

I mean, maybe that is taking it too far lol, but one can dream. It would be like going back to the very origins of what became Warcraft but with the current crew.
THat way we would not necesarily "rewrite" history, we would maybe rewrite pre-history

yeah, it would be awesome with a big xpac. I also want large zones that stretches out. to many xpacs now we have gotten clumped up zones.

[Icathian]

QOL changes even a freshman can do, all he/she needs is orientation, doing quality expansions, like Legion, you need Manpower, Talent, and a great leadership.

Something that people usually ignore is the fact that Ion and Danuser must be fired or reallocated elsewhere. Blizzard has decent manpower and talent but a HUGE leadership issue.

I'm honestly not sure why this is so overlooked inside of Blizzard. Must be a mix of both Ion and Danuser being highly influential (and now we know how that grants you a huge immunity shield against pretty much everything inside Blizzard for some reason) and microtransactions being sucessful enough to not make the higher ups care enough to take a closer look.

As of right now, Danuser can destroy the lore as much as he wants (sometimes just for the sake of his deranged ego) and we the players gotta accept it.

Ion is a lawyer and as much as I hate the meme of lawyers not having a soul, his leadership extracted every last drop of soul from the game.
All he can think about is building systems on top of systems on top of systems, all made to keep people playing for as long as possible. Having fun is a complete afterthought.

They can't understand that the thing which made WoW become this huge meme of a game, that made people skip school, lose their jobs, lose their GFs, and never go outside is FUN. The game was simply really fun. If Blizzard cared about fun, I'm 100% sure that this game would be nuts right now. Specially during lockdowns etc. There would be huge queues and people would be blowing a shit ton of money on subs and microtransactions.

So until those 2 guys get removed from the WoW team, I have 0 hope for the game.

[xenogear3]

However, even if you are right, if the mere existence of boosting "ruins" your sense of accomplishment, you still never had one in the first place. Boosting has been a thing since Vanilla but it was done in game by carries. People have bought boosts all the time.

Boosting by Blizzard doesn't requires human labor. Blizzard creates a level 60 character from nothing.
Boosting by carrier is acceptable because someone did the work.

Boosting and trading gold via time token are different.
Someone has to farm the gold. Then sell to you. There is human labor here.
To me, time token is acceptable.

If Blizzard creates gold out of nothing and sells it to you, then it is bad.

[Darththeo]

Boosting by Blizzard doesn't requires human labor. Blizzard creates a level 60 character from nothing.
Boosting by carrier is acceptable because someone did the work.

Boosting and trading gold via time token are different.
Someone has to farm the gold. Then sell to you. There is human labor here.
To me, time token is acceptable.

If Blizzard creates gold out of nothing and sells it to you, then it is bad.

The argument is boosting ruins sense of accomplishment ... it doesn't. Even if you argue the bought boost is "different" (no me, functionally it isn't.), it still can't remove your sense of accomplishment.

[Zodiark]

Thanks for your expert analysis of Blizzard's internal development team. Personally, I think that WoW should have a roller coaster simulator. Everybody loves roller coasters and I'm sure that since Blizzard is a multi dollar company they can hire enough people to add a fully functioning roller coaster simulator to the game without effecting the rest of the development team.

C'mon let's be real your talking garbage here. Player housing IS a feature in many games and one that some players in WOW have always wanted. It's really easy to google Blizzard's net worth and their parent company. With those figures there is ZERO way that they can't afford to create a new separate team to implement player housing. So stop being obtuse.

[Relapses]

C'mon let's be real your talking garbage here. Player housing IS a feature in many games and one that some players in WOW have always wanted. It's really easy to google Blizzard's net worth and their parent company. With those figures there is ZERO way that they can't afford to create a new separate team to implement player housing. So stop being obtuse.

Okay, well, I think that because Blizzard is a multi dollar company, as you say, they should alternatively create a team to convert WoW from a MMO (bad) into a roller coaster simulator (good). People have been riding roller coasters since the early 1900s and I've never heard anybody ever say anything bad about roller coasters. Seems like a no brainer to me.

[Zodiark]

Okay, well, I think that because Blizzard is a multi dollar company, as you say, they should alternatively create a team to convert WoW from a MMO (bad) into a roller coaster simulator (good). People have been riding roller coasters since the early 1900s and I've never heard anybody ever say anything bad about roller coasters. Seems like a no brainer to me.

For one I'm not going to take the bait. For two, as I mentioned I really don't have a dog in the race. I only care if they implemented player housing from a lateral point of view in the sense that it would add another layer to the game that I'm sure some people would greatly enjoy.
Changing the game of WoW to be something of a middle ground between it and FFXIV and other types of games might not be a bad idea. People have been complaining for ages about how the game has just sped up over time to arrive at a point where it is now. Which is basically a funnel to end-game raiding or PvP.

To me perhaps adding some lateral progression systems that allowed casual players something other to do than the same things they've been doing eg mount farming, achievement hunting and transmog gathering, could only be a good thing. Also the more focused end game raiding guilds could have a place to show off trophies from the dungeons etc. Which brings me to another point. Along with said housing Blizzard could implement a sort of physical trophy system from various dungeons. Maybe they could be tied to certain achievements etc. Then players could mount them in guild halls, homes, etc. This was a feature that was in EverQuest 2 which was actually pretty cool. I remember when we took down certain bosses our guild house keeper would always try to find the perfect spot to mount the newest trophy commemorating our latest conquest.

My suggestions are in the vein of helping to enrich the game and help add more depth and layers.

Every time the game comes out with an expansion it feels like they are re-inventing the wheel so to speak. When in fact they could just add new features and depth to the original game, more dungeons, more places to explore, more WAYS to explore. New wings to existing dungeons. They could use the phasing systems to show growth and advancement, progress within zones. Maybe ruined areas of older zones could be re-built with the idea of player housing in mind. In EQ2 the system they had wasn't bad. All houses in game that were purchasable were basically already part of the scenery, you clicked on a door and had the option to either visit a home or purchase one yourself. So all those bits of empty scenery within WoW could actually be a players domicile. I know to each their own but I fail to see how this could detract from the game. Unless your of the mind where the only progress is newer, bigger, better, more, more, more. In which case you are part of the problem not the solution.

[Relapses]

Unless your of the mind where the only progress is newer, bigger, better, more, more, more. In which case you are part of the problem not the solution.

My position is simple: Adding player housing to the game fundamentally changes WoW the same way that changing it into a roller coaster simulator would. Other game does it is an invalid argument because other games are developed with player housing in mind. WoW, on the hand, was not. It's okay for different games to offer different experiences. Instead of asking for WoW to be the game that does everything because reasons, let the games that deliver different experiences excel at what they do.

[frogboi10]

Other game does it is an invalid argument because other games are developed with player housing in mind. WoW, on the hand, was not. It's okay for different games to offer different experiences. Instead of asking for WoW to be the game that does everything because reasons, let the games that deliver different experiences excel at what they do.

You are not wrong but it's not like housing counters any other systems that wow already has. Housing does not go against any design philosophy WoW was based on.

This game desperately needs fun activities that are not tied with player power and housing would be nice to have.

Edit: spelling. English is not my mother tongue.

[Barrylapses]

Why revamp the world if its perfect?

Sure some places dont reflect the change of the decade and are stuck 11 years in the same story beat but there is beauty in that

Ressources could go in more important stuff, like mythic raiding

[Zodiark]

You are not wrong but it's not like housing counters any other systems that wow already has. Housing does not go against any design philosophy WoW was based on.

This game desperately needs fun activities that are not tied with player power and housing would be nice to have.

Edit: spelling. English is not my mother tongue.

This was my point exactly! I firmly believe that adding more activites to WoW that aren't tied to player power would add a much needed injection into the game that would one show players that the developers are listening and not just focused on the new big thing with the next expansion but for two it would add depth to what many consider a shallow game.
I've played WoW for many years. I've enjoyed it immensely at times. But the erosion of a game comes from many directions. It isn't just because one bad thing for the most part. Most people who have played this game have done so because of the friends they make. Some of those people might be casual players while others are raiders and PvP'ers. If they had something like player housing perhaps some of those casual minded players who are interested in it would stay on JUST to do housing. You could tie certain pieces of furniture into dungeons and achievements which would further give them something to do.
IF those players stay engaged perhaps their friends who are into Raiding would be happier because during downtime they had those friends to chat with/interact, etc.
You can't just be a one trick pony. That would be like going to the gym and only focusing on your arms. The result would be your physique looks incomplete. So while you may hate working on your legs, having a strong foundation helps your power in other areas of your body in ways that may not always be obvious.

Likewise player housing while not the focus of WoW initially might be something that helps in other areas of the game that people who play those parts don't even realize. This isn't to say that WoW has to be the BEST at player housing, other games may very well excel in that area, but having SOMETHING would be better than nothing. Which is why I said I can't imagine this would detract from the game at all, it would only improve it. The people who would create player housing would likely not be the same team as those working on dungeon and raids.

- - - Updated - - -

The argument is boosting ruins sense of accomplishment ... it doesn't. Even if you argue the bought boost is "different" (no me, functionally it isn't.), it still can't remove your sense of accomplishment.

Yes you have a sense of accomplishment however. It isn't as great as that of taking the long way. Boosting for better or worse is a shortcut plain and simple. If you can't be bothered to gear up a character yourself and it causes you to quit the game for instance then it can be argued that the game is better without those players as those that would leave don't possess the patience needed to foster a healthy environment for the good of the community as a whole.