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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    pretty sensitive huh?
    stop projecting. Its noone's fault but your own if you lack self control in a video game.
    Oh wow, the old switcheroo, you got me, I simply cannot withstand your wit, your pure command of the debate, you have outdone yourself.
    Sleep easy knowing you are superior to everyone.

    And then wake up and remember you're sad boy who thinks his wow achievements mean something.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    Why though...?

    It all loops back to that... why have this? Top end players don't like it and I doubt heroic and under raiders even change their conduits. This seems like a problem looking for a solution.
    Because people asked for things to do, but they won't do things that don't give something that's linked to power or is super easy (like very late legion mage tower), but at the same time when it has power attached to it, even if it is 0.00001% chance of giving 0.00001% power increase it suddenly becomes a forced chore.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    I know lots of players who minmax and lots that don't. I am not a minmaxer. I go as far as check the new patch guide for my spec, see if there's something stupid I'm missing and leave it until the next patch. I have been known to reject some talents because I just dont like using them. I have also been known to reject a whole spec because I thought it was boring. Yet week in and week out I would turn up to raid with the same players I've played with for 10 years and absolutely spank them. My gear is worse, my borrowed powers are behind and I don't research my class. Why am I beating these other minmaxers? Gear is irrelevant if you're a shit player. Playing better will always be far superior then getting gear.

    By the way. If you are being inspected and called out it is probably because you're a bad player. The guys playing well don't get called out.
    You are blatantly wrong on multiple levels; I'm not very surprised because most forum replies in threads like this aren't seeking the truth in reality; they mainly want to brag how good they are and all others are supposedly "noobs".

    First of all: sure: don't get the talents you can't use or don't want to use if that will make you better (one could argue that makes you a bad player but let's assume it doesn't); however: passive stats are not that.

    When it gets to passive stats and you refusing to use them at all: it's just extremely offensive even to marginally "not totally casual" guilds; can't you even go to a vendor to get a gem or something(?); don't be lazy.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Because people asked for things to do, but they won't do things that don't give something that's linked to power or is super easy (like very late legion mage tower), but at the same time when it has power attached to it, even if it is 0.00001% chance of giving 0.00001% power increase it suddenly becomes a forced chore.
    Tons of people did the mage tower... it also was only super easy if you did mythic 15s and if you did that you were already at the skill level to do mage tower...

    I think people wanted more dungeons and raids not more trash.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    it's not about if I can do it; it's the if we don't do it: we'll be considered jerks and be kicked out of raid teams anyway; so we have to do it to be optimal.
    This is the difference between all 239 and 252 conduits:



    Somehow I doubt you are one of the ~100 players in the world (of warcraft) who would be rightly kicked out of their raid team for not farming their ass off to max out their conduits.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    This is the difference between all 239 and 252 conduits:



    Somehow I doubt you are one of the ~100 players in the world (of warcraft) who would be rightly kicked out of their raid team for not farming their ass off to max out their conduits.
    Are we talking about a single level of conduit upgrades here? A more fair comparison would be base level to max. It also isn't a pure dps upgrade but usually survival and utility as well. Take into account as well burst dps increases can ease the most stressful parts of fights and you don't seem to be making a point in good faith.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Chipped coin View Post
    Are we talking about a single level of conduit upgrades here? A more fair comparison would be base level to max. It also isn't a pure dps upgrade but usually survival and utility as well. Take into account as well burst dps increases can ease the most stressful parts of fights and you don't seem to be making a point in good faith.
    Yeah, this is one rank. You get 239 by simply playing the game (+15s and heroic raiding). If you are not a world first raider there is no point investing a ton of time grinding out 252s. Do if you have fun, but any raidleader kicking you if you don't outside of world first raiding is a moron and I don't see how this opinion would be bad faith.

    It is important to have your best conduits. It doesn't matter if they are 252 or 239.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    This is the difference between all 239 and 252 conduits:



    Somehow I doubt you are one of the ~100 players in the world (of warcraft) who would be rightly kicked out of their raid team for not farming their ass off to max out their conduits.
    Who told you to compare only 239 and above? Nice selective strawman.

    Also you're probably even more selective in there to cause that (e.g. where are all the classes and specs?); let alone a lot of them are defensives (and they are extremely important); I guess someone has to learn the game is not only "deeps" (before we even go that the test is extremely selective to begin with).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    ton of time grinding out 252s
    You can tell this forum is mostly for the unsubscribed. It doesn't take a "ton of time". It took me a week of casual play if I cared; in a month I guess if I didn't.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2021-11-24 at 04:52 PM.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Who told you to compare only 239 and above? Nice selective strawman.


    Also you're probably even more selective in there to cause that.
    I compare 239 because you get that by simply playing the game. Not having 239 is lazy, I agree with that.

    Feel free to sim your char and show the gargantuan difference max conduits have in your mind. You complain again just to complain...

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    I compare 239 because you get that by simply playing the game. Not having 239 is lazy, I agree with that.

    Feel free to sim your char and show the gargantuan difference max conduits have in your mind. You complain again just to complain...
    Someone has to learn the game is not only "deeps". Some of those are defensives and they are extremely important when upgraded.

    Let alone you didn't even cover all the classes and all the specs; terrible "test"; absolute strawman.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Someone has to learn the game is not only "deeps". Some of those are defensives and they are extremely important when upgraded.

    Let alone you didn't even cover all the classes and all the specs; terrible "test"; absolute strawman.
    Extremely important... would you be so kind to show the best defensive conduit and its gargantuan difference between 252 and the lower rank you have?

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Extremely important... would you be so kind to show the best defensive conduit and its gargantuan difference between 252 and the lower rank you have?
    It's not my burden of proof. You come here with the minority claim; all semi-hard core guilds will kick you(or call you a fool) if you claim those things and even some casual guilds.

    Unless you mean I'm saying something weird; maybe it's weird for people that don't play even marginally competitively; but those are almost off topic.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It's not my burden of proof. You come here with the minority claim; all semi-hard core guilds will kick you(or call you a fool) if you claim those things and even some casual guilds.

    Unless you mean I'm saying something weird; maybe it's weird for people that don't play even marginally competitively; but those are almost off topic.
    How is this my burden of proof? You claimed to lose your raid spot if you don't grind out 252 coduits, I simmed my char to show that another rank of dps conduits reward such little benefit that it doesn't matter outside of world first raiding. You claimed defensive conduits are extremely important to have maxed... back up your claim as I did mine.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Yeah, this is one rank. You get 239 by simply playing the game (+15s and heroic raiding). If you are not a world first raider there is no point investing a ton of time grinding out 252s. Do if you have fun, but any raidleader kicking you if you don't outside of world first raiding is a moron and I don't see how this opinion would be bad faith.

    It is important to have your best conduits. It doesn't matter if they are 252 or 239.
    Depends on class. SoD is kind of poorly designed tier not awful but it favors burst and passive dmg reduction heavily to the point most people run an extra defensive dom socket over dps.

    That said do we really need to defend dogshit level design with the line " but method din't"

    What is and isn't needed for mythic depends on how heavily you can class stack and how pin point perfect you can execute usually suboptimal cd timings to overcome select parts of the fight. These shit systems exist because blizz knows they can rope people into garbage content. I don't get why people pretend its acceptable beyond some wage distaste for players running difficulties above them.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby451 View Post
    I have been playing this game long enough to know that vast majority of the playerbase does NOT want difficult content. They made heroic dungeons ever so slightly more difficult at the beginning of Cataclysm and it was a massive shitstorm of hatred and negativity towards Blizzard.


    Hell just look at this expansion even. Early Torghast was pretty difficult doing layer 8 and they nerfed that quick after all of the complaints.
    Players (even casual) have evolved since cata. Those same dungeons today would be a walk in the park. M+ has allowed people to develop their dungeon skills a lot better than before.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Chipped coin View Post
    Depends on class. SoD is kind of poorly designed tier not awful but it favors burst and passive dmg reduction heavily to the point most people run an extra defensive dom socket over dps.

    That said do we really need to defend dogshit level design with the line " but method din't"

    What is and isn't needed for mythic depends on how heavily you can class stack and how pin point perfect you can execute usually suboptimal cd timings to overcome select parts of the fight. These shit systems exist because blizz knows they can rope people into garbage content. I don't get why people pretend its acceptable beyond some wage distaste for players running difficulties above them.
    ????

    what extra defensive dom sockets? Literally everyone runs the 3 dps + the 2 of the colour you want.

    Noone is using kyr over one of the 3 actual dps shards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TomGreen View Post
    Players (even casual) have evolved since cata. Those same dungeons today would be a walk in the park. M+ has allowed people to develop their dungeon skills a lot better than before.
    lol, no they haven't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It's not my burden of proof. You come here with the minority claim; all semi-hard core guilds will kick you(or call you a fool) if you claim those things and even some casual guilds.

    Unless you mean I'm saying something weird; maybe it's weird for people that don't play even marginally competitively; but those are almost off topic.
    you're literally making shit up, as in noone could even tell the itemlevel of your conduits unless you put in a simc report.
    The 2% per tick from growing inferno, or the 5 seconds off blur really won't make or break you, and is far less of a difference than actually playing properly. Like you 100% can perform at renown 57+239 conduits, literally doesnt matter nearly as much as you goobers think it does.

    but, alas, its mmo-c so i'd be a liar if I said I expected something different.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Chipped coin View Post
    That said do we really need to defend dogshit level design with the line " but method din't"
    I don't defend grind design, actually the opposite, I'm just calling out irrelevant complaints.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    ????

    what extra defensive dom sockets? Literally everyone runs the 3 dps + the 2 of the colour you want.

    Noone is using kyr over one of the 3 actual dps shards.

    - - - Updated - - -



    lol, no they haven't.

    - - - Updated - - -



    you're literally making shit up, as in noone could even tell the itemlevel of your conduits unless you put in a simc report.
    The 2% per tick from growing inferno, or the 5 seconds off blur really won't make or break you, and is far less of a difference than actually playing properly. Like you 100% can perform at renown 57+239 conduits, literally doesnt matter nearly as much as you goobers think it does.

    but, alas, its mmo-c so i'd be a liar if I said I expected something different.
    If you don't run Kyr on mythic sylv you are trolling. Blood dps one provides negligible benefit

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Who told you to compare only 239 and above? Nice selective strawman.

    Also you're probably even more selective in there to cause that (e.g. where are all the classes and specs?); let alone a lot of them are defensives (and they are extremely important); I guess someone has to learn the game is not only "deeps" (before we even go that the test is extremely selective to begin with).

    - - - Updated - - -



    You can tell this forum is mostly for the unsubscribed. It doesn't take a "ton of time". It took me a week of casual play if I cared; in a month I guess if I didn't.
    You get 239s from doing HC/15 keys, that's why he compared them. For a "casual" you get 226 conduits and the jump to 239 is about the same, slightly less. For a casual I'd think of this as something to do on a rainy day, go grind out 58 dps if you want to gain that little tiny extra bit.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
    If you don't run Kyr on mythic sylv you are trolling. Blood dps one provides negligible benefit
    so potentially 1 fight out of 10. cool.

    my point still stands. (also you know there's like a whole bunch of adds that you get benefit from throughout the fight but yk, most of my classes play frost anyway)

    also, point out someone actually doing that on sylvanas. link some logs or something, cus you're just napkin mathing something on a fight where you need throughput throughout the entire encounter, and the execute red does provide benefit.
    Last edited by Kehego; 2021-11-24 at 10:42 PM.

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