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  1. #361
    Banned Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Stopped reading right when you mentioned sub numbers. It's instantly total BS when any supposed employee knows a sub number. This isn't some info they are keeping very secret at Blizzard and have somehow successfully managed to keep secret since they stopped reporting it back in WoD... but it is in fact a metric that they cannot and do not measure anymore.
    You don't think they measure subscriber numbers internally just because they're no longer presenting them at earnings calls?

    Hey, I've got a bridge in Florida, you looking to buy one?

  2. #362
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Stopped reading right when you mentioned sub numbers. It's instantly total BS when any supposed employee knows a sub number. This isn't some info they are keeping very secret at Blizzard and have somehow successfully managed to keep secret since they stopped reporting it back in WoD... but it is in fact a metric that they cannot and do not measure anymore.
    Nonsense. Someone in accounting knows. CEO knows or can ask someone. I imagine it's tightly held these days but it's total nonsense to say that no one knows what it is since it cannot measured.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  3. #363
    Knowing exactly how many subscribers exist at specific milestones was always something I liked learning about MMO's. It's a shame that there's been a move away from that - and towards an annoying habit of promoting the number of accounts made instead.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    yet blizzard doesnt seem to realise that if you actually make a good game, people will stick around without having to do FOMO content (theres nothing more i hate than dev time wasted on assets avaible for limited time and never coming back again, CM sets being one example of this waste). Hell FF14 even says that if people are bored, play something else in the meanwhile until you want to come back again and FF14 is doing very good currently. So no, you dont really need fomo content if your game is actually good but blizzard rather double down on the bad stuff instead of manning up and fixing their game.
    The issue isn't whether you or I like "FOMO" or not, for example the CM sets you mention, the issue is whether "FOMO" makes Blizzard more money compared to no "FOMO".
    Blizzard clearly thinks that having time-limited stuff together with regular refreshes of skills and game systems is the way to maximize its profits. And Blizzard is just doing what the vast majority of game companies is doing.

    As long as Blizzard makes more money/believes it will make more money on people buying expansions because they bring new skills and game systems and people stay subscribed for longer because of "FOMO" compared to not having new, shiny and "no-FOMO" then Blizzard will continue doing so.

    We can't just consider that Blizzard will lose some customers because of "FOMO", we also have to consider how many customers Blizzard will lose because of "no-FOMO".

    Personally I don't care much for "FOMO" that is based on grind, but I know plenty of people that love it, on the other hand I love "FOMO"-rewards that are based on skill.
    The CM-sets are a prime example of stuff that I find cool. It shows when a person played the game and it makes each character individual.
    A game where everybody can get everything "for free" is very boring. There needs to be something to strive for, there must be the possibility of not getting it.

  5. #365
    ">Cross faction grouping is on the table because they would rather do that than take the bad press hit and merge servers at the risk of losing transfer fees. Like that would be the worst news for the company this year."

    This to me confirms that blizz wills till make it so that one will still need to be on the same server and same faction to play mythic in the future.

    They really like their fucking server transfer fees...
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Nonsense. Someone in accounting knows. CEO knows or can ask someone. I imagine it's tightly held these days but it's total nonsense to say that no one knows what it is since it cannot measured.
    No they don't know, that's not how these companies work. Believe it or not, idc, but knowing their sub count isn't just counting how many entries a certain table has, especially because it's not actually Blizzard, but different companies(!) that manage the subscriptions to WoW.

  7. #367
    Dreadlord sunxsera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    I'm going to guess you are a GenXer or older? I say that because I'm in the same boat and it's a reason I still ay WoW, because I find what I do in the game fun and don't need any shiny reward to play.

    Unfortunately, for the last 20 years or so, it's all about them shinies for the greater majority of gamers. You see it all over the place. Take BotW, people hated that journey to figure out how to get to the top of that cool land mark you saw mile away was the reward. They wanted quality rewards to even be assed to go do something. Nintendo even trolled players by giving them a golden piece of shit for collecting all 900 korok seeds. Just saying go play and have fun, they rewards shouldn't be the reason to play.

    I remember just playing and enjoying playing the games, it didn't matter if beat the game, I didn't need a shiny reward for exploring a map or killing that elite monster.

    But I'm some weirdo for liking WoW and not needing great endgame systems. Me, my wife and our friends in our guild just enjoy raiding with each other. Recently, we've never gotten into or very far into mythic, and a few times have never finished the heroic before the next raid came out. We don't even care if we don't, we just have fun.
    Early Generation Y

    But yea, often times i had the most fun when the journey was the reward. Legion did great in that regard. I allways raided mythic, but i also loved most of the other things wow had to offer. Mage Tower was definetly a fomo thing, but you didn't feel forced or in a hurry to do it.
    Hell, i even liked island expeditions. it was just something you could do in your spare time. Could have been implemented better, sure ... but it was at least something.
    Fishing in your garrison with friends or completing the garrison invasions with them was also this kind of content. I never really did any of that for the rewards.

    What i probably want to say is; with a season pass all - or some of that will be a ~6month rush to get rewards. It removes a big part of freedom a mmo has to offer.
    It fits games like CS:GO or Warframe that are free to play and loose replayability - but not an expensive mmo, that should have a lot more content anyway.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    No they don't know, that's not how these companies work. Believe it or not, idc, but knowing their sub count isn't just counting how many entries a certain table has, especially because it's not actually Blizzard, but different companies(!) that manage the subscriptions to WoW.
    You know, typing random words does not make them true. This isn't even a conspiracy theory, it's just wrong.
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  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    No they don't know, that's not how these companies work. Believe it or not, idc, but knowing their sub count isn't just counting how many entries a certain table has, especially because it's not actually Blizzard, but different companies(!) that manage the subscriptions to WoW.
    That is INSANE. Please read your statement again. Did you actually mean to type that?

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    The issue isn't whether you or I like "FOMO" or not, for example the CM sets you mention, the issue is whether "FOMO" makes Blizzard more money compared to no "FOMO".
    Blizzard clearly thinks that having time-limited stuff together with regular refreshes of skills and game systems is the way to maximize its profits. And Blizzard is just doing what the vast majority of game companies is doing.

    As long as Blizzard makes more money/believes it will make more money on people buying expansions because they bring new skills and game systems and people stay subscribed for longer because of "FOMO" compared to not having new, shiny and "no-FOMO" then Blizzard will continue doing so.

    We can't just consider that Blizzard will lose some customers because of "FOMO", we also have to consider how many customers Blizzard will lose because of "no-FOMO".

    Personally I don't care much for "FOMO" that is based on grind, but I know plenty of people that love it, on the other hand I love "FOMO"-rewards that are based on skill.
    The CM-sets are a prime example of stuff that I find cool. It shows when a person played the game and it makes each character individual.
    A game where everybody can get everything "for free" is very boring. There needs to be something to strive for, there must be the possibility of not getting it.
    id argue they lose out more on future customers by having fomo content, even if you could get everything in a game it doesnt mean that players are less unike (you still need to have the skills to do the challenge, no matter where in time the challenge is). I can tell you that ive had plenty of people asking me about my feral druid skin from MT only for me to have to tell them that it will never be avaible again. while it does make me a bit more unike to have it compared to those who dont, it wouldnt hurt to make it avaible to those who dont have it as long as the challenge remains the same in terms of difficulty.

    You have still stuff to strive for, it doesnt take away what you have or what others have. But then again, its just my take on it, i played since TBC, ive been throught most content in the game (i missed out on CM sets due to my family being a complete donkeys rear to me during the time, essentially stopping me from being to do any content in the game, so i missed out on the sets sadly). But blizzard just sees money, its no secret they dont care about the players anyway so FOMO or not at this point, blizzard are hellbent to crash the ship nonethless with their greediness.

    also, take a look at Warframe, a game where everyone can have pretty much everything (aside from founders items which is a frame and 2 weapons for those that supported the start of the game) and yet every player i come across is unike and if someone happens to have the same stuff i have, so what? im still happy with my stuff and i still have stuff to strive for in the game to aquire, it doesnt devalue any item i have.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    id argue they lose out more on future customers by having fomo content, even if you could get everything in a game it doesnt mean that players are less unike (you still need to have the skills to do the challenge, no matter where in time the challenge is).

    But blizzard just sees money, its no secret they dont care about the players anyway so FOMO or not at this point, blizzard are hellbent to crash the ship nonethless with their greediness.
    I am not saying that you are wrong, because I don't have any data to base such a judgment on, I am just saying that we have to consider the possibility that FOMO actually works from Blizzard's point of view = makes more money.

    The problem is that some here think: "I don't like FOMO = that will make the company less money" instead of thinking "I don't like FOMO = this game is not for me, but it might actually be so that the company more than compensates on the loss of my business from other customers."

    But I don't agree at all with your take that "blizzard are hellbent to crash the ship... with their greediness".
    Not that the game can't crash, but greed is the driving force behind all capitalistic enterprises and blaming Blizzard for being greedy is pointless as it is Blizzard's, and all other companies, job to maximize their profits.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    No they don't know, that's not how these companies work. Believe it or not, idc, but knowing their sub count isn't just counting how many entries a certain table has, especially because it's not actually Blizzard, but different companies(!) that manage the subscriptions to WoW.
    You are wrong, and comically unaware about how backend systems work. You probably think that because there are different regions and payment methods that makes subscription counts more challenging. But that's not even remotely true, there's core systems of account management used for game services, how and where you pay is irrelevant. Blizzard knows exactly how many subs they have, it is only a press of a button.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    It must be really hard for people to do basic research, because they're sitting here asking me to link a leak that literally anyone can google. Yes, the line about Sylvanas becoming the new arbiter is most likely false (though you guys seriously need to take data mining with a grain of salt) but a lot of the internal strife at Blizzard in the July leak was true.

    Leaks have also been saying Sylvanas is getting some kind of redemption arc, and regardless of how obvious that was, it's still one of the dumbest moves ever. She committed genocide for fun. Tyrande should slice off her head and be done with it. Blizzard shouldn't be afraid of killing off their fan favorite SINCE SHE COMMITTED WAR CRIMES. But naw, the players will LOVE a redemption arc.

    If anyone wants an example of just how tone deaf blizzard is, that's one huge example.
    Thing is though if we go by in game lore about how souls work when split there can't be a redemption arc because the banshee queen was destroyed the moment sylvanas soul was thrown into her body.

    The reason for that is because as alliance Uther interacts with you and Jaina. While at the exact same time the other half of Uther's soul is being trained by devos. 2 of them having their own wills and identities.

    As such Sylvanas soul which has been imprisoned since her death was by definition of being imprisoned unable to do any of the crimes of the banshee queen. Also said soul had own free will and own existence as a sentient being.

    Once merged with the body one of two things happened.

    A) It destroyed and replaced Banshee queen Sylvanas.

    Or

    B) It merged creating a new entity of them both. Like Tuvix in voyager.

    Neither are the person that did the crimes as she can't exist going by what was shown in wrath and afterlives with Uther. (not that I think it's the intent of the writers of shadowlands but still)

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