Conservative parent groups put new target in their crosshairs,childrens mental health

[tehdang]

Not seeing any actual response to anything I wrote, just some Don Quixote-esque tilting at the "CRT" windmill.

I can simplify it for you. Your post's "Again, you're not differentiating between the "individual" and the "group"" is non-sequitur, and your example as it compares to history is better left for the pro and anti CRT threads. You make most of my point for me by immediately leaving behind the social and emotional intelligence bit to move to history and groups.

It matters when that philosophy is the reason he was there in the first place and we all know the law isn't blind or applies to same to everyone as has been demonstrated over and over again in these types of cases. My point was you don't get to invoke MLK when that's the scum you choose to defend while ignoring his motivation.

I'm really not into the people saying you can't teach your kid race-neutral kindness, and also you're not allowed to invoke MLK. Maybe start to embrace some civil rights leaders, and come back when you aren't shoving their lessons into graves.

So.... What you are saying that children do not have individual rights?

The interests of the parents and those of the children do not automatically and inherently align in all cases.

Because if that is what you are saying then children do not have rights.

There has to be a clear line somewhere otherwise children are basically... Property.

So your answer to my question is that there is no line, and parents can do whatever they want to their children?

I asked you to define what you believe stands as a pull between the rights of the children and the rights of the parents, and you lead with a "So.... what you are saying that children do not have individual rights?" You're immediately on "the interests of the children," so maybe you have no idea what you mean by the "rights of the children."

MLK explicitly stated that the white moderate too afraid to change the status quuo, ignoring or hiding the USA's history of racism because it's uncomfortable/inconvenient

Here we are again going to the teaching of history in a thread about the children's mental health. Go make your own thread about how ackchyually Martin Luther King Jr is anti-Republican party.

you mean this MLK

“…the price that America must pay for the continued oppression of the Negro and other minority groups is the price of its own destruction.”

or maybe this one?

“White Americans must recognize that justice for black people cannot be achieved without radical changes in the structure of our society.”

or perhaps this one?

“A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.”

Whatabout all the other stuff he said? I'm sure there's people on the internet that want to discuss the price American must pay for its oppression, MLK's socialism, and military spending. Go and find them.

Ok but thats what parents are arguing, that this is

a) unrelated to actual mental health

and

b) that its contrary to the values they want to instill on their children (harmful in their view)

I disagree with the harassment campaigns FWIW

First, people have to decide whether public schools are basically the new American Indian boarding schools to "civilize" children against their parent's wishes. (Shamlessly stolen from @Theodarzna). Then they have to decide if mental health and emotional health is so unimportant that social justice and anti-racism should be jam-packed right in there.

[Mihalik]

@Mihalik the reason ppl are avoiding your question is cuz its dumb

Everyone knows pedophilia is bad and its not even on topic. The issue is if parents should be able to opine and take action to prevent certain items from becoming part of the curriculum.

It has already been explained why the question is valid.

Where is the line between the rights of the parents and the rights of the children?

The issue here is whether we should accept parents pushing harmful ideological nonsense or not?

The answer to my question is extremely simple.

The right of the parents ends where any decisions they might take might be harmful to the physical and mental well-being of their children.

I'd argue that parents who are wholly and utterly unqualified on subjects such as mental health shouldn't fucking get a say on how mental health is addressed in the school system because when they push their insane ideological nonsense on their kids they are actively harming them.

The reason why you and people like you refuse to answer that simple question is because you can't really articulate a limit.

You might claim you believe that suicide, racism, child marriages etc are bad, but you'll go out of your way to perpetuate those things under the guise of "parental rights".

With other words, you're just in it to perpetuate human misery.

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tons of hyperbole and 500 words of complete racist drivel

It's been explained to you about 30 times already.

Mental health, public health are intrinsically linked with issues such as racism and homophobia.

[Howel]

It is honestly saddening, because those mental health programs exists, because we see mental health issues like depression, stress and suicide in younger and younger generations. Which is the frustrating part, the school system is literally trying to address this and try and counter act it, and that is being attacked.

[Draco-Onis]

This is literally what they are trying to avoid by having the programs removed or cancelled :P

But your argument is that they have the right to shape their kids minds, the entirety of public school goes against that so again they can keep the home if they are so concerned about their kids.

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I'm really not into the people saying you can't teach your kid race-neutral kindness, and also you're not allowed to invoke MLK. Maybe start to embrace some civil rights leaders, and come back when you aren't shoving their lessons into graves.

What in the world does that even mean? history is history those are facts not something you change because it hurts your fee fees, teaching kids general kindness has nothing to do with it. Ever heard the phrase " those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it?" should we not teach kids about the Nazis because it may make the German ones feel bad? Is history hurting your safe space?

[tehdang]

What in the world does that even mean? history is history those are facts not something you change because it hurts your fee fees, teaching kids general kindness has nothing to do with it. Ever heard the phrase " those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it?" should we not teach kids about the Nazis because it may make the German ones feel bad? Is history hurting your safe space?

Scratch just a little bit on "Conservatives attack the mental health of kids," and suddenly it pops out that antiracism and social justice are mental health, what are you some kind of safe space seeker? It's like your main purpose is to prove the parents right. I only had to post a video of an example CASEL training for SEL and everybody's up pounding ideology and subject shifting to history and Nazis.

And if you're big on "those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it?", Mr "Even richer coming from the guy who defends white supremacists like Kyle Rittenhouse," then it appears you learned that there's undesirables in society that are so subhuman they must not be given a defense in the law. I'd be anxious if you had praised my understanding of history, given the lessons you've taken from it.

[Santti]

What in the world does that even mean? history is history those are facts not something you change because it hurts your fee fees, teaching kids general kindness has nothing to do with it. Ever heard the phrase " those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it?" should we not teach kids about the Nazis because it may make the German ones feel bad? Is history hurting your safe space?

I just find it hilarious, that a right-wing nutjob is talking about kindness.

"Grandmother dear, what big teeth you have!"

[tehdang]

qtd “500 words of complete racist drivel”

Random internet man puzzled at parental backlash, as he calls any questioning of the terms he’s using as “racist drivel.”

[Mihalik]

Random internet man puzzled at parental backlash, as he calls any questioning of the terms he’s using as “racist drivel.”

1. "Colorblindness" is literally racist drivel. It's erasure.
2. Refusing to acknowledge the connection between racism, sexism, homophobia and mental health is racist and sexist drivel.

Just because you write 500 words about something that doesn't mean it has any merit or that it should be seriously entertained.

[Endus]

Scratch just a little bit on "Conservatives attack the mental health of kids," and suddenly it pops out that antiracism and social justice are mental health, what are you some kind of safe space seeker?

Racism and a lack of social justice cause direct mental health impacts, and thus are directly relevant to any mental health programs at schools.

This is obvious shit, and the only people protesting this are racists (and such) who want the kids they're bigoted against to suffer. Literally the only reason.

then it appears you learned that there's undesirables in society that are so subhuman they must not be given a defense in the law.

"Defense" from what? The bigots aren't being attacked, here. They just aren't being catered to.

[uuuhname]

of course leave it to the white conservative caucus of this forum to not understand how centuries of systemic racism has tangible effects on people. it must be really nice living in the same house your parents bought and having generational wealth and stability and wondering why entire groups of the population who were never given that opportunity (purposefully) and instead forced to the margins have higher risks of mental health issues... it's why kids in south central LA have been diagnosed with PTSD because the environment they grew up in is violent and unstable. but that's a "cultural" issue to conservatives, while completely ignoring how the system was set up to create this environment.

[Draco-Onis]

Scratch just a little bit on "Conservatives attack the mental health of kids," and suddenly it pops out that antiracism and social justice are mental health, what are you some kind of safe space seeker? It's like your main purpose is to prove the parents right. I only had to post a video of an example CASEL training for SEL and everybody's up pounding ideology and subject shifting to history and Nazis.

And if you're big on "those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it?", Mr "Even richer coming from the guy who defends white supremacists like Kyle Rittenhouse," then it appears you learned that there's undesirables in society that are so subhuman they must not be given a defense in the law. I'd be anxious if you had praised my understanding of history, given the lessons you've taken from it.

Please spare me the self righteousness, you weren't defending Rittenhouse's right to a trial you are actively siding with him. Also why in gods name do you think racism and injustice doesn't result in mental distress? Do you think people of color are unable to have feelings?

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I just find it hilarious, that a right-wing nutjob is talking about kindness.

"Grandmother dear, what big teeth you have!"

ROFLMAO, well he has to phrase it in such a way all of these right wing initiative have one goal stop kids from growing up with a understanding of history and systematic racism. They are not shy about wanting to white wash history so they can get them while they are young since factual recounts of history makes their movement look bad.

[tehdang]

Please spare me the self righteousness, you weren't defending Rittenhouse's right to a trial you are actively siding with him. Also why in gods name do you think racism and injustice doesn't result in mental distress? Do you think people of color are unable to have feelings?

Justice doesn’t just cease to exist because somebody decides a legal argument equates to siding with the “other.” That’s the primacy of demagogues. “Your honor, the defendant is white and a white supremacist. His defenders are defending his rights of self-defense, but I think they’re siding with white supremacism. Lock him up and declare the others white supremacists.” It’s not the best way to persuade people you have any grasp of the situation or can exercise good judgement.

You’re still flailing on anti-racism as mental health education. The issue is one controversial method of teaching race relations and current alleged racist power structures. You don’t get to decide your preferred ideological constructs are normative. Teaching group racial culpability to kids as mental health should inspire backlash, and I’m just giving that as an example since the reporting on the subject was piss-poor.

By the way, in case it wasn’t obvious, I’m happy to see CASEL types and supporters pound this, fail because of backlash, get chased out of multiple school districts, and your cohort blame racism and racist parents. When you embrace the ideology, of course you’re going to frame failures as moral problems with the audience, because that’s what ideologues do.

[Edge-]

and your cohort blame racism and racist parents.

You know, non-racism like a principal getting suspended for posting a picture of himself, a Black man, kissing his white wife - https://www.ajc.com/news/black-princ...GFUZ3OHQG5OQQ/

Which resulted in local parents rallying together to attack him for teaching CRT - which was never taught in his school - because a former school board candidate baselessly accused him of it without evidence, and the parents (in a majority white district) simply believed it. Ultimately causing him to resign in less than a year after being the first Black principal there - https://www.texastribune.org/2021/11...l-race-theory/

So yeah, I'm pretty comfortable blaming racist parents for the overwhelming majority of this shit. It's not like we don't have any data to support the rampant racism in this country - https://thehill.com/homenews/news/58...tory-of-racism

The Monmouth University poll released Wednesday found that 43 percent of survey-takers that identified as Republicans said that they are against the teaching of historical racism in public schools, as opposed to only 5 percent of Democrats who said the same thing. Ninety-four percent of Democrats and 54 percent of Republicans said they were in favor of teaching about the history of racism.

Thankfully not a majority of Republicans, but they're getting damn close to equal numbers with those who support teaching the history of racism in the US - which is literally just history and not "CRT" or anti-racism or anything else. It's just teaching that like, we had slaves, Jim Crow existed, literacy tests and other tools were used to disenfranchise Black people, the Civil Rights movement etc.

[tehdang]

1. "Colorblindness" is literally racist drivel. It's erasure.
2. Refusing to acknowledge the connection between racism, sexism, homophobia and mental health is racist and sexist drivel.

Just because you write 500 words about something that doesn't mean it has any merit or that it should be seriously entertained.

I should’ve mentioned that doubling down is a popular form of intellectual discourse. You’ve got education, light, and the angels on your side, everything else is racist drivel. How dare kids be taught to seek friendship without regards to race, and not burden themselves with the racial guilt of their ancestors. How dare parents reject that as not being related to mental well-being.

You’ve got a formulaic response to challenges and the obvious counter is simply that you preach racism and everything but that racism is itself racist. Call it whatever pejorative nonsense you choose. Once you’ve given up persuasion and are on to the ridicule and demagogue stage, all that remains is fighting with votes at the school boards and with lawyers in courts. Thankfully, there’s been a couple of recent setbacks on that stage and more to come. The thread might as well be titled “The debate is over: anti-racism ideology is literally mental health and SEL” and skip the whole comments and pushback.

[shimerra]

Here we are again going to the teaching of history in a thread about the children's mental health. Go make your own thread about how ackchyually Martin Luther King Jr is anti-Republican party.

Whatabout all the other stuff he said? I'm sure there's people on the internet that want to discuss the price American must pay for its oppression, MLK's socialism, and military spending. Go and find them.

Considering that the thread is literally about people like you trying to hide and lie about history to protect your own fragile mental health and that of good conservative children yes it is relevant. Until people like stop trying to pretend that racism never existed and white people did not wrong and that teaching it is an attack on children this issue will come up.

I didn't say MLK is anti-Reublican. But they're for damn sure anti-MLK. Had the guy lived he definitely would've been an evil commie liberal trying to bring down America. I'll address the shit you vomit all over this forum where and when I see fit. If you were considerate you'd condense it to a mega thread so the rest of us could safely ignore it and not reeeeeeeeeee about teaching basic history because facts disagree with the Right wing group thing you're forced to repeat we'll just have to keep bringing it up.


Seriously at this point can you even zip your own pants without outside help? You couldn't even follow your own argument let alone my point. Also I hope you see the stupidity of you bringing up MLK and then being mad at me for correcting your blatant lies/misrepresentation. Considering you brought him up first by stating he was rolling in his grave trying to use him as a shield for your ignorance you don't get to give me shit for also mentioning him when I correct you.

[Draco-Onis]

You’re still flailing on anti-racism as mental health education. The issue is one controversial method of teaching race relations and current alleged racist power structures. You don’t get to decide your preferred ideological constructs are normative. Teaching group racial culpability to kids as mental health should inspire backlash, and I’m just giving that as an example since the reporting on the subject was piss-poor.

By the way, in case it wasn’t obvious, I’m happy to see CASEL types and supporters pound this, fail because of backlash, get chased out of multiple school districts, and your cohort blame racism and racist parents. When you embrace the ideology, of course you’re going to frame failures as moral problems with the audience, because that’s what ideologues do.

For the billionth time no one is teaching race relations in that way it is a GRAD LEVEL COURSE TAUGHT IN LAW SCHOOL. This has zero to do with it this backlash in entirely based on white washing history so kids of a certain color don't "feel bad about their race". The escalation to mental health is a continuation of that, the right is laser focused and terrified of kids learning about slavery and its horrors even the holocaust.

The parents who have these concerns are right wing who feel that school is turning their kids liberal as opposed to the fact that it's hard to hate gays, people of color and others when you get to know them.

[uuuhname]

I should’ve mentioned that doubling down is a popular form of intellectual discourse. You’ve got education, light, and the angels on your side, everything else is racist drivel. How dare kids be taught to seek friendship without regards to race, and not burden themselves with the racial guilt of their ancestors. How dare parents reject that as not being related to mental well-being.

You’ve got a formulaic response to challenges and the obvious counter is simply that you preach racism and everything but that racism is itself racist. Call it whatever pejorative nonsense you choose. Once you’ve given up persuasion and are on to the ridicule and demagogue stage, all that remains is fighting with votes at the school boards and with lawyers in courts. Thankfully, there’s been a couple of recent setbacks on that stage and more to come. The thread might as well be titled “The debate is over: anti-racism ideology is literally mental health and SEL” and skip the whole comments and pushback.

you're just flat out lying here, and then you have the nerve to pretend you have the intellectual high ground when people treat you like the liar that you are. no one is teaching CRT to grade school kids, this has been explained to you people over and over again. but because even "daring" to think about teaching social justice to kids is the latest right wing boogieman for you all to be perpetually angry about you have literally nothing else to add to any conversation you blunder your way into. that is it, that is the only thing any of you disaffected MAGA hats have, you need to have something to be outraged over.


this is the same tactic racist white people used when we decided to integrate schools in the 1960's. it's the exact same dog whistles that a certain segment of reactionaries have used for decades whenever the mere SUGGESTION of progress be put forward.

[Egomaniac]

This is literally what they are trying to avoid by having the programs removed or cancelled :P

Well, if they suddenly have the expertise to question the teachers...maybe they should teach their children themselves?

[Endus]

Teaching group racial culpability to kids as mental health should inspire backlash

It's also an entirely fictional concept made up by racists as a disinformation tool.

Stop making up fake shit as bafflegab to defend racism.

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I should’ve mentioned that doubling down is a popular form of intellectual discourse. You’ve got education, light, and the angels on your side, everything else is racist drivel.

The two "sides" here are "anti-racists" and "racists". It really shouldn't be that surprising that the racists' arguments are "racist drivel".

Your position is like trying to whine about how everyone always calls you a Nazi, when you've got a swastika tattooed on your cheek and are wearing a red Nazi armband everywhere.

How dare kids be taught to seek friendship without regards to race, and not burden themselves with the racial guilt of their ancestors.

Refusing to recognize someone's ethnic identity isn't being "friendly", to begin with.

And "racial guilt" is a fiction made up by racists. Nobody's teaching "racial guilt". It's just racists upset that they're being identified as racist.

[Dezerte]

Intentionally wanting your child to learn less in school seems like a really "shooting yourself in the foot"-kind of deal. And I think it's a bad idea to let unqualified people dictate the content of the curriculum, similar to how I would not ask a plumber for advice on how to do brain surgery.