Thread: Zereth Mortis

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHAT COSMIC FORCES?!
    WHAT DO YOU THINK WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SO FAR?!
    Well, you asked why they didn't use the Zereths before they and the Zereths were created. Not my fault you're not making sense.

  2. #42
    Comment moved to the OP.
    Last edited by username993720; 2022-01-02 at 12:32 PM.

  3. #43
    The First Ones only exist because the current writers don't know WoW lore and forgot that the Titans existed.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    The First Ones only exist because the current writers don't know WoW lore and forgot that the Titans existed.
    It's a recurring theme with writing in the last years.

    LF Draenei? Normal Draenei, but light-ier.

    Void elves? Blood elves, but edgier.

    The entirety of BfA? A retread of MoP, but Morally Grey™ this time.

    Maldraxxus? Scourge, but even Scourgier.

    First Ones? Titans, but Titan-ier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fitsu View Post
    Shadowlands could have had half it's timegated, grindy, restrictive, pointless mechanics removed and replaced with nothing and it would have just been a straight up better game for it.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Does anyone else feel like it is similar to the Emerald Dream?
    They are both the blueprints for "the world" - one's, supposedly, for Azeroth while the other is for Afterlives and, basically, everything else in the universe. Both experiment with flora and fauna.

    "Zereth Mortis is a strange, alien location that defies all concepts of reality or physics. It is divided between a dry desert biome—perhaps showing what the realm looked like when the First Ones were establishing the space for themselves—and a lush forested one—a testbed for their experimentation on plant and animal life."



    "Freya, a creation of the benevolent titans, created the Emerald Dream to serve as the underlying blueprint for the planet Azeroth.
    The Emerald Dream also has multiple layers, described by Cenarius as different testing versions of Azeroth. These layers were created because the titans invested a great deal of work in perfecting their design of Azeroth, and so, the finished design of the planet was the product of many previous flawed or unfinished models. Each layer represents an abandoned segment or idea that the titans tried and ultimately discarded. Malfurion observed that it looks like neither the mortal plane nor the Emerald Dream. He saw that one mountain peak lacked its northern face, while another peak looked as if someone had started molding it like clay but had lost interest. These older layers were normally uninhabited, invisible and incomplete, therefore limited in scope, relative to the finalized Dream. But they could be accessed by any who knew how to navigate them."


    (Not a picture of the Emerald Dream, but still).

    It is a similar case with Un'goro Crater, Sholazar Basin and Vale of Eternal Blossoms:

    "When the Titans shaped Azeroth, Freya designed Un'Goro Crater to be an area for experimentation along with Sholazar Basin and the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. All three locations were places where the power of the Well of Eternity had coalesced. The Wild Gods emerged from these cradles of life. According to Nablya you might call Un'Goro Crater the Titans' petri dish. This coincides with theories of Un'Goro being the home of the Titans when they inhabited Kalimdor.

    From the Shaper's Terrace Freya performed tests and experiments, though ever since she left, Nablya has taken her place to observe and watch over Un'Goro. Normally the titanic watchers do not interfere with the matters of Azeroth, but here in Un'Goro, they are free to take a more direct approach. As Un'Goro is the experimental ground of the Titans, it is their right to do so. Many of the creatures in the crater existed long before the titans arrived, but some did not.




    There's definitely some connections to the Titans, especially considering the use of waygates and the Azerite in Zereth Mortis.



    Now, does anyone else feel disappointed at the fact that the Eternal Ones are just perfected robots and so is everyone else? It ruins the mystery behind them or anything else in the Warcraft universe. Where do they come from, who created them, what their intentions are and so forth...We're, basically, at the part where we are in the highest dimension possible - the creators' own domain. Where do we go from here?



    Perhaps we should consider that the titans are the first ones, perhaps all of existence is merely the first one titans' way of creating more titans.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  6. #46
    Haven't played this expansion, can someone explain how Zereth Mortis is the blueprint for the Shadowlands but also for reality as a whole? Shouldn't the Shadowlands just be a realm of the universe like the Emerald Dream, the Nether, the Elemental Planes, whatever. But now suddenly it covers entire existance? Is it some kind of retcon? The Shadowlands are all encompassing now? Do the writers make up this stuff as they go?

    None of it makes sense to me. It's as if some kind of Emerald Dream mainframe alters the Firelands. It shouldn't.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    Haven't played this expansion, can someone explain how Zereth Mortis is the blueprint for the Shadowlands but also for reality as a whole? Shouldn't the Shadowlands just be a realm of the universe like the Emerald Dream, the Nether, the Elemental Planes, whatever. But now suddenly it covers entire existance? Is it some kind of retcon? The Shadowlands are all encompassing now? Do the writers make up this stuff as they go?

    None of it makes sense to me. It's as if some kind of Emerald Dream mainframe alters the Firelands. It shouldn't.
    I don't think it ever said reality as a whole. People here are saying that and people on MMOC like to complain about lore while either missing 90% of it or creating some in their head.

    On that same note, you might want to reread Chronicle etc because your understanding of those other places seems flawed.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Perhaps we should consider that the titans are the first ones, perhaps all of existence is merely the first one titans' way of creating more titans.
    No need to copy the entire OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    Haven't played this expansion, can someone explain how Zereth Mortis is the blueprint for the Shadowlands but also for reality as a whole? Shouldn't the Shadowlands just be a realm of the universe like the Emerald Dream, the Nether, the Elemental Planes, whatever. But now suddenly it covers entire existance? Is it some kind of retcon? The Shadowlands are all encompassing now? Do the writers make up this stuff as they go?

    None of it makes sense to me. It's as if some kind of Emerald Dream mainframe alters the Firelands. It shouldn't.
    Apparently, it's only an afterlives manufacturer.
    But, there are other Zereths for the other cosmic forces.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    No need to copy the entire OP.



    Apparently, it's only an afterlives manufacturer.
    But, there are other Zereths for the other cosmic forces.
    I disagree, and thus i copy.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    Again... moving quickly is irrelevant.
    In the time before the creation of reality by proto-titans we call first ones any one of the cosmic forces who are constantly at war with each other could have used the Zereth in their own domain to destroy everyone else.

    Except they didn't. Since we are talking about Void Lords who seek nothing but consume then we can actually assume its not that they didn't but actually couldn't.
    Logically if the question is "who can reach the red button the quickess" then in the millions or trillions of years since the creation of reality someone would have pressed it first by now.

    So clearly pressing it is not an automatic game over. Logically there is more to this and whatever the Jailor does the other Zereths will stop because otherwise the reality would have already been over with.



    I very much doubt the cosmic forces of the void who seek to destroy reality anyway would have an sense of self preservation if it means they can eat everything in existance in the process.
    Except the void don't want to destroy reality, they want to control it. Sargeras was the one who wanted to destroy reality because he didn't believe it was possible to keep the void from taking over. Someone once put it as "the good guys want to fix things, the void want to keep them the same (as in messed up), and Sargeras believes it can't be fixed burn it all."
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  11. #51
    Epic! Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Do you have memory issues? Zovaal is the one that started their printing, and he only did so after the events 9.1.



    Yeah, ok, you have no clue what you're talking about. A prototype is a test version.

    A blueprint is simply a document of some sort detailing the design of an object. It is not a test version or preliminary result and does not even have to be produced before the object.
    If you want to get overly technical, it's only referring to older such documents that were made by blueprinting, and does not even refer to what they depict, but how they were created.

    They do not have the same purpose at all. One is to test and evaluate the design. The other is to store it for future use.
    Saying they're both the same is like saying scissors are like a wrecking ball since both are used to make things smaller.



    Well, normally access to Zereth Mortis would have required unanimous consent of all major Covenants and the Arbiter. It stands to reason the other forces have similar limitations. You seem to work under the presumption they can just waltz in there and do whatever.
    Well, according to the Dungeon Journal they actually weren't printed by Zooval, although they may change that again before release.

    "The first iteration of the immortal council was not put into use because their ideals were too extreme. With the enemy at the gate, Lihuvim has little choice but to reactivate these dangerous prototypes."

  12. #52
    I just had this thought...
    Do you think the contrast between the green lush part of Zereth Mortis and its desolate sandy area is a hint towards the rivalry between the Breakers and the Primals?



  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I just had this thought...
    Do you think the contrast between the green lush part of Zereth Mortis and its desolate sandy area is a hint towards the rivalry between the Breakers and the Primals?


    That seems more than a little far-fetched unless Zereth Mortis was founded on something older.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  14. #54
    Meanwhile, the structures remind me of a mix between Uldum and Ahn'qiraj:







    Titan content, perhaps? Egyptian-esque maybe?

  15. #55
    Moderator Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Meanwhile, the structures remind me of a mix between Uldum and Ahn'qiraj:







    Titan content, perhaps? Egyptian-esque maybe?
    Yeah, same which proves that First Ones lived on Azeroth a long time ago. The difference is these buildings on Azeroth are super old or destroyed.
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2022-02-06 at 03:31 PM.
    Behold my new creation!


  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    Yeah, same which proves that First Ones lived on Azeroth a long time ago. The difference is these buildings on Azeroth are super old or destroyed.
    And low polygon.
    It might mean the Titans are copying the First Ones.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    And low polygon.
    It might mean the Titans are copying the First Ones.
    The theme of SL summed up: old, iconic things are actually cheap knock-offs of newer stuff

    Scourge: *exists*
    SL: Ohhh, but they are actually copying Maldraxxus yknow.

    Lich King: *exists*
    SL: Ohhh, but hes actually copying the Jailer yknow.

    Titans: *exist*
    SL: Ohhh, but they are actually copying the First Ones yknow.

    Its hilarious.
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    The theme of SL summed up: old, iconic things are actually cheap knock-offs of newer stuff

    Scourge: *exists*
    SL: Ohhh, but they are actually copying Maldraxxus yknow.

    Lich King: *exists*
    SL: Ohhh, but hes actually copying the Jailer yknow.

    Titans: *exist*
    SL: Ohhh, but they are actually copying the First Ones yknow.

    Its hilarious.
    In with the new, out with the old.
    That's what they did with the Helm of Domination and Garrosh.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    And low polygon.
    It might mean the Titans are copying the First Ones.
    Low polygon is not an in-universe issue. That's not a valid lore argument.

  20. #60
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    The theme of SL summed up: old, iconic things are actually cheap knock-offs of newer stuff

    Scourge: *exists*
    SL: Ohhh, but they are actually copying Maldraxxus yknow.

    Lich King: *exists*
    SL: Ohhh, but hes actually copying the Jailer yknow.

    Titans: *exist*
    SL: Ohhh, but they are actually copying the First Ones yknow.

    Its hilarious.
    That's a reductive argument on multiple levels. The Scourge being inspired at some level by the aesthetics of Maldraxxus neither makes them a "copy," nor changes the fact that both the Scourge and Maldraxxus are aesthetically unique. You wouldn't really mistake Naxxramas for Zerekriss. The same is true of the Jailer and the Lich King, even more so really, especially since the successive Lich Kings pointedly defied the Jailer and did their own thing - so they're different both aesthetically and narratively. The Titans are also distinct from the First Ones in that we know little to nothing about the latter and pretty much everything about the former. They *might* be proved similar later on, if we ever find out more about the First Ones. Their roles are completely different as well, given that the First Ones are the progenitors of everything that exists, whereas the Titans just took to traveling throughout the physical universe and changing pre-existing stuff to better fit their own notions of what "ordered" was supposed to be like (and based on what Algalon maintained destroying a fair portion of creation to do so in the process).

    The only way you can really posit the whole "cheap knock-offs of newer stuff" line is if you strip away every ounce of nuance and detail for the sake of a jaded half-argument.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

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