Thread: Zereth Mortis

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  1. #81


    Zereth Mortis is the World forge in MCU. The First Onse are Celestials, and Eternals are Eternal Ones. Wow

  2. #82
    "Another thing... could Argus be Zereth Tumult? We were told that demons regenerated at an increased rate due to Argus being used as a "battery". But, if we look at Zereth Mortis, we can see that the First ones are creating, and re-creating, creatures like a factory:"

    Well, considering Zereth Mortis legit exists as the origin of the Realm of Death, and was built by the First Ones when designing the Cosmic Chart (Which is the so called "Design"), which exists an engine for each Cosmic Force's heart within each Zereth's Sanctum, etc, and if their magics exist above the other 6 (We know this as Light and Shadow, even during the Chronicle, are bound by symphonies, and the 6 (Maybe 7) started as formless "first" specimens prior to Reality bringing forth the design's form and individualism, etc...

    Then no, Argus would NOT be a Zereth whatsoever, but instead was utilized by Sargeras to be his Legion's headbase. Hell, I don't even think Sargeras knows of the Zereth's, due to the Titan's apparently being unaware of them existing based off the Chronicle, or the Titans (Maybe even Sargeras) seemingly having no idea how to get to one, outside of Zovaal, who only really knows based off VERY personal shit from his own pantheon, and his former role prior to his first failed attempt at taking the sigils which brought his ass to the Maw to begin with, and why the cosmic conspiracy even began...

    THIS IS FOR 1 ZERETH BTW! What Zovaal did here is but...1 step in the other 6 Zereth's likely having their own roles to play in some form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olddog View Post


    Zereth Mortis is the World forge in MCU. The First Onse are Celestials, and Eternals are Eternal Ones. Wow
    Very limited view of things here, as you would be calling Zovaal VERY weak here, using said logic. Titans are more-so akin to the Celestials here.

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    Ulduar would be akin to the "World forge". The Abstract Entities (Like Galactus, Eternity, the Living Tribunal, who funny enough is an ARBITER OF THE MARVEL VERSE) are akin to the Highfather, the Arbiter/Jailer, and other bigger more prominent leadership-esc members in each Cosmic Pantheon. Hell I'd say the First Ones COULD be akin to the Endless, but that would be akin to saying the same thing from before, except I see WAY more connections with the First Ones and generic prime supreme deities like the Presence, the TOAA, etc and CURRENT Zovaal sharing Lucifer Morningstar ideals than anything, though he is supposed to represent WoW's Satan in full here, so it makes sense why he'd take from a lot of these influences. Hell, the implications imply that WoW's whole existence is but a mere science project that likely isn't meant to last anyway, much like how the Presence holds all of DC and its creation like a lil egg, toward a much bigger variety of stories and other "creation eggs".

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    "Does anyone else feel like it is similar to the Emerald Dream?"

    No???? Cause it's definitely an existing that's far more platonic in nature...

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    "Another thing... could Argus be Zereth Tumult? We were told that demons regenerated at an increased rate due to Argus being used as a "battery". But, if we look at Zereth Mortis, we can see that the First ones are creating, and re-creating, creatures like a factory:"

    Well, considering Zereth Mortis legit exists as the origin of the Realm of Death, and was built by the First Ones when designing the Cosmic Chart (Which is the so called "Design"), which exists an engine for each Cosmic Force's heart within each Zereth's Sanctum, etc, and if their magics exist above the other 6 (We know this as Light and Shadow, even during the Chronicle, are bound by symphonies, and the 6 (Maybe 7) started as formless "first" specimens prior to Reality bringing forth the design's form and individualism, etc...

    Then no, Argus would NOT be a Zereth whatsoever, but instead was utilized by Sargeras to be his Legion's headbase. Hell, I don't even think Sargeras knows of the Zereth's, due to the Titan's apparently being unaware of them existing based off the Chronicle, or the Titans (Maybe even Sargeras) seemingly having no idea how to get to one, outside of Zovaal, who only really knows based off VERY personal shit from his own pantheon, and his former role prior to his first failed attempt at taking the sigils which brought his ass to the Maw to begin with, and why the cosmic conspiracy even began...

    THIS IS FOR 1 ZERETH BTW! What Zovaal did here is but...1 step in the other 6 Zereth's likely having their own roles to play in some form.
    Zereth Tumult would be the origin point for the Nether as well, while Argus was a realspace planet/Titan World Soul. So it's out anyway.

    From what we've seen so far, the Titans can't access any of the 6 cosmic force realms proper. They know nothing about the Shadowlands, had at most glimpses of the Gardens of Life through the Dream and generally don't really seem to be aware of anything outside of the mortal realm. Sargeras may have above average knowledge of the Nether, but that's about it, and given the nature of that place that might not be super helpful. Who knows, maybe we need to get his (or Illidan's) help to reach Zereth Tumult.

  4. #84
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I was wondering....
    If Zereth Mortis looks like this:

    How would Zereth Vitae look like?

    Another thing... could Argus be Zereth Tumult? We were told that demons regenerated at an increased rate due to Argus being used as a "battery". But, if we look at Zereth Mortis, we can see that the First ones are creating, and re-creating, creatures like a factory:



    Could this mean that Demons didn't regenerate in the Twisting Nether because of their nature, or in Argus because of the Titan Argus, but due to Antorus being Zereth Tumult, creating new demons constantly and re-creating those who perished? This would mean that every incarnation of a notable Demon we met was a copy and not the original one.
    Would explain how the titans regained their bodies.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Would explain how the titans regained their bodies.
    They didn't.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by olddog View Post


    Zereth Mortis is the World forge in MCU. The First Onse are Celestials, and Eternals are Eternal Ones. Wow
    Damn... didn't watch the movie. Can i get some explanation as to what it is?
    We know Blizzard drew some inspiration from Marvel.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Well, considering Zereth Mortis legit exists as the origin of the Realm of Death, and was built by the First Ones when designing the Cosmic Chart (Which is the so called "Design"), which exists an engine for each Cosmic Force's heart within each Zereth's Sanctum, etc, and if their magics exist above the other 6 (We know this as Light and Shadow, even during the Chronicle, are bound by symphonies, and the 6 (Maybe 7) started as formless "first" specimens prior to Reality bringing forth the design's form and individualism, etc...

    Then no, Argus would NOT be a Zereth whatsoever, but instead was utilized by Sargeras to be his Legion's headbase. Hell, I don't even think Sargeras knows of the Zereth's, due to the Titan's apparently being unaware of them existing based off the Chronicle, or the Titans (Maybe even Sargeras) seemingly having no idea how to get to one, outside of Zovaal, who only really knows based off VERY personal shit from his own pantheon, and his former role prior to his first failed attempt at taking the sigils which brought his ass to the Maw to begin with, and why the cosmic conspiracy even began...

    THIS IS FOR 1 ZERETH BTW! What Zovaal did here is but...1 step in the other 6 Zereth's likely having their own roles to play in some form.
    I didn't imply that Sargeras knew it. I just suggested the possibility of it being retconned into one considering the similarities in function.

    "Does anyone else feel like it is similar to the Emerald Dream?"

    No???? Cause it's definitely an existing that's far more platonic in nature...
    Do you really not see the resemblance when entering the place?

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Zereth Tumult would be the origin point for the Nether as well, while Argus was a realspace planet/Titan World Soul. So it's out anyway.

    From what we've seen so far, the Titans can't access any of the 6 cosmic force realms proper. They know nothing about the Shadowlands, had at most glimpses of the Gardens of Life through the Dream and generally don't really seem to be aware of anything outside of the mortal realm. Sargeras may have above average knowledge of the Nether, but that's about it, and given the nature of that place that might not be super helpful. Who knows, maybe we need to get his (or Illidan's) help to reach Zereth Tumult.
    Have you considered the Emerald Dream being a First Ones' domain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Would explain how the titans regained their bodies.
    True. Never thought of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    They didn't.
    Huh?

  7. #87
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    In the Eternals movie, a celestial is about to be born. Celestials developed an intelligent human race to fuel the unborn celestial that will emerge from Earth. Eternals are robots created by celestials to guide and protect intelligent species for millennia so they can evolve for this very event. Some Eternals got angry and wanted to save the human race and kill the unborn celestial. Some are loyal to the purpose and fight other Eternas to save him, which at the same time would destroy Earth and all people with it.
    Last edited by Progenitor Aquarius; 2022-02-26 at 10:30 AM.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    In the Eternals movie, a celestial is about to emerge from planet Earth. Celestials developed an intelligent human race to serve as fuel for the unborn one. Eternals are robots created by celestials to guide and protect intelligent species so they can evolve. Some Eternals got angry and wanted to save the human race and kill the unborn celestial. Some are loyal to the purpose and fight them to save him, which at the same time would destroy Earth and all people with it.
    So, basically, Azeroth, First Ones and Pantheons. Seems like they copied it 1:1.

  9. #89
    Warchief Progenitor Aquarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    So, basically, Azeroth, First Ones and Pantheons. It seems like they copied it 1:1.
    It looks like, which is why I always thought from the very beginning, that celestial beings could be The First Ones. We don’t know what will happen to us when Azeroth emerges, but the story is pretty similar. It could also be the fact that the First Ones created all these cosmic forces to fight each other, and some may feel that celestials did it for their own enternainment, but it’s how the creation really works. Becoming is the constant fight of opposites. I thought of it deeply and it seems to be that way even when creating art for example. Something has to be destroyed in order to create another.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Huh?
    [IMG]
    Those aren't their real bodies. Remember how big Sargeras is in the cutscene after that fight? That's what their real bodies were like.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    So, basically, Azeroth, First Ones and Pantheons. Seems like they copied it 1:1.
    That's not even close. We don't know what will happen when Azeroth wakes up, the races on Azeroth serve a completely different purpose, the Eternal Ones aren't on Azeroth or even connected to Azeroth to begin with and you're mixing up First Ones and Titans.

    You're focussing on the similarities while glossing over the major disparities.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    It looks like, which is why I always thought from the very beginning, that celestial beings could be The First Ones. We don’t know what will happen to us when Azeroth emerges, but the story is pretty similar. It could also be the fact that the First Ones created all these cosmic forces to fight each other, and some may feel that celestials did it for their own enternainment, but it’s how the creation really works. Becoming is the constant fight of opposites. I thought of it deeply and it seems to be that way even when creating art for example. Something has to be destroyed in order to create another.
    So, can we predict what will happen based on marvel's eternals and celestials lore?
    And, is the movie any good? Worth watching?

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Those aren't their real bodies. Remember how big Sargeras is in the cutscene after that fight? That's what their real bodies were like.
    *facepalm*

    They can shrink in size, as happens to Sargeras himself once he's captured by their beam.

    That's not even close. We don't know what will happen when Azeroth wakes up, the races on Azeroth serve a completely different purpose, the Eternal Ones aren't on Azeroth or even connected to Azeroth to begin with and you're mixing up First Ones and Titans.

    You're focussing on the similarities while glossing over the major disparities.
    First of all, i haven't watches the movie, so i don't know what the story is about.
    Secondly, eternals are the different pantheon, not just death. Meaning, titans are as well. And, they were on Azeroth at one point.
    Thirdly, how am i mixing First Ones and Titans? Cloudmaker explained how the Eternals are the equivalents of WoW Eternals while the Celestials are the equivalents of the First Ones.

  12. #92
    Warchief Progenitor Aquarius's Avatar
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    I mean, it was an okay movie. It didn't the ending because I rather kill all people on the planet instead of sacrificing the celestial. Let's be real here. I think it was better than Matrix Resurrection, at least.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    I mean, it was an okay movie. It didn't the ending because I rather kill all people on the planet instead of sacrificing the celestial. Let's be real here. I think it was better than Matrix Resurrection, at least.
    I think i'll pass...

  14. #94
    "I didn't imply that Sargeras knew it. I just suggested the possibility of it being retconned into one considering the similarities in function."

    Well, still it's weird, as Argus in of itself isn't even in the Nether, just its magics made it HEAVILY tethered to it.

    "Do you really not see the resemblance when entering the place?"

    No. I did not. That's like saying any planet or realm with trees n shit is akin to the Dream. That's...just wrong. Besides, Ardenweald and the Dream are total opposites regardless, so it's not like you'd be right here regardless.

    "Have you considered the Emerald Dream being a First Ones' domain?"

    It's not. The Dream is Ardenweald's polar opposite in the Plane of Life, and what we've seen was but a Titan influenced part of it which served as the Blueprint to Azeroth, organized by the Titans and whatnot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Those aren't their real bodies. Remember how big Sargeras is in the cutscene after that fight? That's what their real bodies were like.



    That's not even close. We don't know what will happen when Azeroth wakes up, the races on Azeroth serve a completely different purpose, the Eternal Ones aren't on Azeroth or even connected to Azeroth to begin with and you're mixing up First Ones and Titans.

    You're focussing on the similarities while glossing over the major disparities.
    Tbf here, I think the Titans can change sizes, but their spirits were able to regain a type of physical form while at their Seat, hence why they're still not able to have all out space battles Vs Argus or Sargeras for Azeroth's protection or anything like that. Cause Sargeras is the only Titan that can use his all out power due to...well...not being a spirit atm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    So, can we predict what will happen based on marvel's eternals and celestials lore?
    And, is the movie any good? Worth watching?



    *facepalm*

    They can shrink in size, as happens to Sargeras himself once he's captured by their beam.



    First of all, i haven't watches the movie, so i don't know what the story is about.
    Secondly, eternals are the different pantheon, not just death. Meaning, titans are as well. And, they were on Azeroth at one point.
    Thirdly, how am i mixing First Ones and Titans? Cloudmaker explained how the Eternals are the equivalents of WoW Eternals while the Celestials are the equivalents of the First Ones.
    I already explained the differences clearly tho tf?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Well, still it's weird, as Argus in of itself isn't even in the Nether, just its magics made it HEAVILY tethered to it.
    "Argus is the original homeworld of the eredar, now located within the Twisting Nether."
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arg...sandYearsWar-1

    No. I did not. That's like saying any planet or realm with trees n shit is akin to the Dream. That's...just wrong. Besides, Ardenweald and the Dream are total opposites regardless, so it's not like you'd be right here regardless.
    Who said anything about Ardenweald? We're talking about Zereth Mortis.




    It's not. The Dream is Ardenweald's polar opposite in the Plane of Life, and what we've seen was but a Titan influenced part of it which served as the Blueprint to Azeroth, organized by the Titans and whatnot.
    It serves, similarly, the same purpose as Zereth Mortis, experimenting with life forms and flora.

  16. #96
    ""Argus is the original homeworld of the eredar, now located within the Twisting Nether."

    Only because of the Nether's magics literally shrouding it. The World was once of the Dark Beyond however. So, no.

    Also, Elunaria just has Titan areas to it, and a world having green life and yellow-ish magics isn't the same as a place like Zereth Mortis, which looks entirely different altogether, consisting of protoform'd Automa, shapes and hexagons (representing the Cosmic Chart, obviously), Forges that look nothing like Titan BS, etc.

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    And the Blueprint of Azeroth portion of the Dream was simply taken from Freya, as the ACTUAL Dream (With Elune as its ruler) is but 1 realm for the Plane of Life.

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    Chronicle has the "emerald dream" being the opposite of the Shadowlands, despite the fact that the view of Order is simply going off what we currently know of through Titan archives n shit that occurs on Azeroth, while the Grimoire (And the expansion of SL itself) explores more into the Dream, its counterpart in Ardenweald and just how fucking massive a place such as the Shadowlands actually is.

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    "It serves, similarly, the same purpose as Zereth Mortis, experimenting with life forms and flora."

    Not at all. Also, that's uhh...not really how that works, the Titan Keeper Freya took from that dream and used it as the Blueprint for Azeroth, keeping her dreams safe from the grasp of the Old Gods, who were just imprisoned at the time. And Zereth Mortis doesn't even experiment. It is a WORKSHOP, they BUILD the Realms from the materials and matter from absolute nothing the First Ones will. They have 6 Workshops, 1 for each Force, and we've only ever explored 1 of them so far.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFirstOnes View Post
    Only because of the Nether's magics literally shrouding it. The World was once of the Dark Beyond however. So, no.
    And Antorus?

    Also, Elunaria just has Titan areas to it, and a world having green life and yellow-ish magics isn't the same as a place like Zereth Mortis, which looks entirely different altogether, consisting of protoform'd Automa, shapes and hexagons (representing the Cosmic Chart, obviously), Forges that look nothing like Titan BS, etc.
    You have to admit, they do look alike.

    And the Blueprint of Azeroth portion of the Dream was simply taken from Freya, as the ACTUAL Dream (With Elune as its ruler) is but 1 realm for the Plane of Life.
    We don't know much about the Emerald Dream, where are you taking all of this from?

    Chronicle has the "emerald dream" being the opposite of the Shadowlands, despite the fact that the view of Order is simply going off what we currently know of through Titan archives n shit that occurs on Azeroth, while the Grimoire (And the expansion of SL itself) explores more into the Dream, its counterpart in Ardenweald and just how fucking massive a place such as the Shadowlands actually is.
    And who created the Shadowlands if not the First Ones?

    Not at all. Also, that's uhh...not really how that works, the Titan Keeper Freya took from that dream and used it as the Blueprint for Azeroth, keeping her dreams safe from the grasp of the Old Gods, who were just imprisoned at the time. And Zereth Mortis doesn't even experiment. It is a WORKSHOP, they BUILD the Realms from the materials and matter from absolute nothing the First Ones will. They have 6 Workshops, 1 for each Force, and we've only ever explored 1 of them so far.
    If there are prototypes, it means they were experimenting. Not all ended up in the Shadowlands. Some got shelved.

  18. #98
    Prototypes CAN be experimented, fair. But unlike the Titans, "experimenting" isn't at all the only thing the Automa do, they literally CREATE THE SHIT YOU SEE IN THE COSMIC REALMS, or at least the Shadowlands for this Zereth specifically.

    "And Antorus?" Created after Argus was conquered by the Legion...it's not really that hard to understand here.

    "You have to admit, they do look alike." Yeah, and Ardenweald looks like other Azerothian zones, but that doesn't mean they're the same. Hell, Elunaria isn't even about Elune, but it does share her name at best. If you want my take on it, I simply feel the Titans got their ordering and tech shit as an attribute of their Creators AKA the First Ones. Reminder, the Cosmic Pantheons are their "children", and the Forces and Design are their machines and specimens of which they could create the Workshops from, and the Automa are their next layer down who build the realms from these shops. The Titans as the Pantheon of Order have attributes of controlling aspects of Reality and making sure it is safe and balanced, hence why they also have similar things such as Forges and whatnot, but on smaller scales. Death and Life's Pantheons help maintain and hold sway over the souls of Reality and helps make certain life and death are balanced out there, and Light and Shadow's Pantheon exist to keep the melodies of Creation intact, to make sure Darkness doesn't consume all, and to make sure Light doesn't conquer Reality and the other 5 powers in a crazy fucking blindening rampage. Chaos brings meaning to Order, and so their leadership either consumed eachother cause they are Disorder, or the First Ones simply didn't even give them a leadership at all LOL!

    It's less that these are really connected cause the First Ones are "titan-ish", but it's just that people like Eonar, Elune, etc have taken aspects from the First Ones and their ordeals but not one of them were given all of these gifts and aspects for each power LOL. Also, that's also possibly coincidence tbh, as to why there's "green" there and whatnot.

    "We don't know much about the Emerald Dream, where are you taking all of this from?" Shadowlands has so many statements calling the Emerald Dream and Ardenweald being literal opposites of each-other, and Elune AKA the WQ's sister and counterpart apparently being in some Life Pantheon, and therefore her realm being akin to Ardenweald but for the Planes of Life. Also, Chronicle implies that Freya either made the Dream from nothing or she took the Dream from somewhere bigger and built off it.

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    "And who created the Shadowlands if not the First Ones?"

    ...The Automa, who exist to build everything from the design of the First Ones for each Workshop.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    So, basically, Azeroth, First Ones and Pantheons. Seems like they copied it 1:1.
    Well, that was Legion's story, which came before the Eternals movie. Sooo Marvel copied Blizzard I guess?

  20. #100
    At one point during a quest they referred to the covenant leaders as the Pantheon of Death. Weren't the Titans referred to as a Pantheon? Are they they Pantheon of Order? Are there Pantheons for each cosmic force?
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