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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    This is not even what the thread is about!

    There are overwhelmingly negative reactions to benign things all the time, thanks to social media right? We have outrage culture because we can respond as angrily as we want to behind a computer or phone screen. So to say there aren't instances of pushback against individual freedom of speech is just intellectually dishonest.
    Getting "pushback" for the things you say is not an attack against freedom of speech...it's an example of it.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    So this right here is a great example of toxicity.

    It does a few things - first it denies that there is indeed someone who may act in a way that is negative and toxic. Just flat out pretends toxicity isn't a valid thing that exists. Two, it is used as a way to bash a group of people the poster doesn't like. And finally it's overall just dismissive and patronizing.

    So, funny enough, in a thread about toxicity you have a great example.
    You're reading way too deep into it and probably projecting somewhat. It's just a really, really subjective thing, on top of absolutely being a rallying cry. You have plenty of examples in this thread already.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    Oh lord... First: The market is clearly in favor of Jordan Peterson. Look at his rise to fame if you have any doubts. His critics couldn't silence him what do you mean? He became an international sensation so you lost me there.

    So I'm attacking interest groups by stating a viewpoint on how they behave? Interesting. I didn't know you couldn't criticize peoples' actions without being an aggressor.

    What position of mine do you want me to define? You seem dedicated to exposing me for the bigot (or whatever) I am, so ask away I am officially an open book.

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    Hold the phone: I'm not the one who's being adversarial. When you question my intent and have an inclination toward it being negative,I'm going to defend myself to the best of my ability.

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    Sorry, a lot of responses and I'm trying to avoid a dumpster fire of a thread.

    I want to know what constitutes it to you specifically yes. Also, at what point is someone themselves toxic, as opposed to being a person with a set of toxic beliefs? When do we denounce them? Because some people get away with doing and saying certain things while others don't. Wouldn't you agree? There are majorly disparate reactions.
    Honestly, you're really not that difficult to figure out.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...he-Mandalorian

    You keep talking about attacks on free speech, but cannot even explain what you even mean.

    Criticizing people is not an attack on free speech.

    A social media company kicking out racists is not an
    attack on free speech.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-11-25 at 09:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  4. #84
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    You're reading way too deep into it and probably projecting somewhat. It's just a really, really subjective thing, on top of absolutely being a rallying cry. You have plenty of examples in this thread already.
    You are the one the one that said it is just a rallying cry for the left. Don't get upset if you get called out.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    You are the one the one that said it is just a rallying cry for the left. Don't get upset if you get called out.
    My post is the opposite of upset.

    There, I added a smiley so you don't feel threatened.

  6. #86
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    My post is the opposite of upset.

    There, I added a smiley so you don't feel threatened.
    I see you decided to continue with the patronizing. Thank you for your efforts to demonstrate toxic behavior for the class.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  7. #87
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    But aren't these examples of freedom of speech? And freedom of association?

    E.g. a racist being shouted down and socially ostracized is free speech - the very definition of it. Prohibiting (i.e. making it illegal) people from doing that would be state censorship.
    Is it civil? I mean, it's a response to an uncivil position so it's an understandable reaction. And it's also important to make it clear when something is unacceptable, that it is unacceptable - so that it can never take root/or be rooted out. So I would ultimately not consider such a "harsh" response to be toxic.

    And really, cancel culture is just a new word for an old term if you ask me - social ostracization. I dislike how it's being used as if it's some new kind of phenomena, and that it is always bad (it can be, but that depends on what is being ostracized).
    I agree 100% with that. Just to be clear, I never made any statements in defense of any figures or ideologies that are already regarded as toxic. In fact, I agree completely that our responsibility as a well-intentioned society should be to denounce evil. It's always up to the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Literally no one has made any effort to "silence" Jordan Peterson. He just likes to whine about criticism because he can't honestly respond to it. That's the whole thing; snowflakes who can't defend their positions rationally whining about being "cancelled" whenever anyone levels criticism of their arguments.

    The only assault on free speech lately is from right-wingers who like to lie about criticism and claim that it's censorship. If you aren't have legal barriers put on your ability to express yourself, your freedom of speech isn't being attacked.



    You were making a hostile misrepresentation.



    I'm not trying to define you as anything.

    I will, however, continue to break down the arguments you make to their constituent pieces. If that turns out to look bad on you, that's your problem to deal with.
    There has been an effort to silence Jordan Peterson and compartmentalize him as being alt right for quite a while now. Do your research and you'll see. A group of students pushed him and the ones who wanted to listen to him speak out of a campus auditorium because they deem him transphobic, etc. Have you listened to him in all the interviews he's done or the speeches he's given? If you have you'll understand how he's been the victims of "hostile misrepresentation."

    Now as for me making a "hostile misrepresentation" of interest groups. How so? Where is the hostility?
    Check out the Drakonaar, my playable race concept! (WIP -- Looking for artists)


  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    I agree 100% with that. Just to be clear, I never made any statements in defense of any figures or ideologies that are already regarded as toxic. In fact, I agree completely that our responsibility as a well-intentioned society should be to denounce evil. It's always up to the people.

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    There has been an effort to silence Jordan Peterson and compartmentalize him as being alt right for quite a while now. Do your research and you'll see. A group of students pushed him and the ones who wanted to listen to him speak out of a campus auditorium because they deem him transphobic, etc. Have you listened to him in all the interviews he's done or the speeches he's given? If you have you'll understand how he's been the victims of "hostile misrepresentation."

    Now as for me making a "hostile misrepresentation" of interest groups. How so? Where is the hostility?
    You keep saying all these attacks on free speech are happening, where is your evidence? As you pointed out, the burden of evidence is on you.

    Stop trying to make people into victims based on your false narratives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Honestly, you're really not that difficult to figure out.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...he-Mandalorian
    That read like something straight out of 2014.

    Forgive me for this, if I get infracted for it I accept it.

    FUCK YOU SJW CUCKS. STOP TRYING TO RUIN STAR WARS. YOU PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO HIT A SOFT SPOT FOR ME AND I CAN'T STAND IT. THIS IS STARTING TO TRIGGER ME. KEEP YOUR SJW BULLSHIT OUT OF STAR WARS.
    That's some healthy, sophisticated discourse right there for us right there. No toxicity in sight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    That read like something straight out of 2014.



    That's some healthy, sophisticated discourse right there for us right there. No toxicity in sight.
    It's not like these people are hard to figure out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  11. #91
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Who is trying to shut down freedomnof speech? You keepsaying this, but cannot seem to show how.

    You seem to be basing things on a false premise.

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    Cancel culture is nothing more than the choice to exercise free speech. It's not denying anyone their freedom of speech.
    What examples do you need? They've been reining in our freedom of speech for years now. I'm not saying I disagree, as there are certainly reprehensible things that should never be said to another individual and they deserve to have an assertive and denouncing reply. Just like there always has been, there are groups of people who want to control others.

    I never said cancel culture was a method of denying free speech did I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    That read like something straight out of 2014.



    That's some healthy, sophisticated discourse right there for us right there. No toxicity in sight.
    Another classic: Bringing up old posts to discredit somebody. Not that I don't still stand by what I said those years ago, they've been messing up Star Wars.
    Check out the Drakonaar, my playable race concept! (WIP -- Looking for artists)


  12. #92
    Considering you made this thread almost immediately after your Asmongold thread was locked, I'd say this was some kind of passive-aggressive attempt at revenge.

  13. #93
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    They've been reining in our freedom of speech for years now.
    You seem to be under the amusing misunderstand that freedom of speech requires a guarantee to a platform and an audience. It does not. Your repetition of this indicates your care little about freedom of association.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    What examples do you need? They've been reining in our freedom of speech for years now. I'm not saying I disagree, as there are certainly reprehensible things that should never be said to another individual and they deserve to have an assertive and denouncing reply. Just like there always has been, there are groups of people who want to control others.

    I never said cancel culture was a method of denying free speech did I?

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    Another classic: Bringing up old posts to discredit somebody. Not that I don't still stand by what I said those years ago, they've been messing up Star Wars.
    This is literally your bullshit narrative, the burden of evidence is on. You can repeat it all you like, that isn't the same as providing actual evidence. Making vague comments about supposed freedoms being taken away isn't the argument you think it is... not when you cannot actually formulate an argument.

    So, where is your evidence?
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  15. #95
    Toxicity is when interacting with people is so notoriously bad in a game that it drives people away from playing the game. It's used because it's so "toxic" that it poisons the game, thus gets the publishers less money.

    It doesn't mean people are offensive. It means they're so offensive that it makes people avoid the game to not interact with these people.
    Last edited by Otimus; 2021-11-25 at 10:34 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    It appears Connal has returned with a sock puppet. Still fellatiating over Jordan Peterson after all these years?
    Insert Severus Snape meme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    You're reading way too deep into it and probably projecting somewhat. It's just a really, really subjective thing, on top of absolutely being a rallying cry. You have plenty of examples in this thread already.
    No, no one is reading too far into anything. I mean, your reply here only reinforces what that poster was saying about you.

  17. #97
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    There has been an effort to silence Jordan Peterson and compartmentalize him as being alt right for quite a while now.
    This is trivially false. There is no such thing. He's still a U of T professor and still publishing and doing tours. You're literally making this shit up out of nothing.

    A group of students pushed him and the ones who wanted to listen to him speak out of a campus auditorium because they deem him transphobic, etc.
    Not a restriction of his freedom of speech. Private platforms decided they didn't want to provide a platform to him. As is their freedom and right.

    Have you listened to him in all the interviews he's done or the speeches he's given? If you have you'll understand how he's been the victims of "hostile misrepresentation."
    I've heard enough to be very familiar with the deliberately disingenuous if not outright dishonest tools he uses to manufacture and push disinformation.

    He hasn't been "misrepresented" in this. He's just not nearly as clever at hiding his motives as he thinks he is.

    He's directly attacked trans rights, in his opposition to Bill C-17 here in Canada, where he willfully lied about what the bill actually did to push his bigoted agenda.

    He repeatedly speaks out against "cultural marxism", which isn't a thing. It's just an anti-semitic conspiracy theory, literally invented out of nothing by the Nazis as one of many propaganda tools to demonize Jewish intellectuals.

    And so on. Those two points there aren't even disputable; those are simply facts, and not in any way an opinion I am expressing. He was factually wrong about Bill C-17 and knew it, and stated his bullshit anyway. He has unearthed and re-used a Nazi conspiracy theory used to target Jewish academics, without context or conscience or any basis to it whatsoever. Facts. Maybe you don't like the facts, but they're still facts.

    Now as for me making a "hostile misrepresentation" of interest groups. How so? Where is the hostility?
    "It seems as though nowadays the groups that want to affect social change tend to put the cart before the horse, believing their stance is inherently just and thus everyone should just follow along"

    Your words. Attacking groups pushing for social justice, by dismissing that their cause has any justice to it to begin with, and that it's all just differences of opinion rather than identifiable injustices.

    Sure, racism and bigotry is a "difference of opinion", but it's pretty objectively condemnable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    What examples do you need? They've been reining in our freedom of speech for years now.
    Literally not happening. You're making that shit up.

    What's happening is that you're facing criticism, which is someone else's freedom of speech, and you don't like it. Well, tough. That's what freedom of speech feels like.

    Freedom of speech is not a right to some platform.
    Freedom of speech is not a right to an audience.
    Freedom of speech is not a freedom from criticism or response.
    Freedom of speech does not obligate anyone to support you or your speech.

    Freedom of speech means you can go into a public space and step up on the soapbox you brought with you and speak to whoever wants to stop. And that's about it. If you don't own the soapbox, you've got no right to it, and if you want to use someone else's soapbox (publishing services, meeting spaces, theaters, etc), you get to abide by the owner's requirements and desires or you can go buy your own.

    A thousand voices calling someone a stupid bigot for saying a stupid bigoted thing is "freedom of speech". That bigot never getting a speaking gig anywhere else as a result is not an infringement of their freedoms in any way. Freedom of speech protects you against government backlash for the content of your speech. It doesn't provide any kind of shield against social consquences from others. Who have the same freedoms you have, no matter how much that annoys you.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-11-25 at 10:51 PM.


  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    No, no one is reading too far into anything. I mean, your reply here only reinforces what that poster was saying about you.
    No, it doesn't. If you don't see the irony in any of this, then there's no point in even starting a discussion.

    Not like this wasn't a bait thread to begin with.

  19. #99
    "I'm not being toxic, it can't be toxic if you finish with a smiley-faced emoji."
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotmail View Post
    No, it doesn't. If you don't see the irony in any of this, then there's no point in even starting a discussion.

    Not like this wasn't a bait thread to begin with.
    Yes it was, but by saying "...there is no point in starting a discussion" you're just looking for an easy out after you have made multiple bad posts.

    Ironically this is toxicity on these forums.
    Last edited by Self Inflicted Wounds; 2021-11-25 at 11:15 PM.

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