Blizzard don't ban boosting because THEY are the boosters...crazy

[holywhiskers]

These threads are so dumb. Boosting literally does not affect you as a player. It does not. To pretend it does is disingenuous. I have paid for mine and my brother's gametime for almost 2 years just doing scheduled Raid Sales through my guild. It's great. And at no point is someone running around with 10/10M on their tool tip that didn't earn it affecting your game play.

[Verdugo]

These threads are so dumb. Boosting literally does not affect you as a player. It does not. To pretend it does is disingenuous. I have paid for mine and my brother's gametime for almost 2 years just doing scheduled Raid Sales through my guild. It's great. And at no point is someone running around with 10/10M on their tool tip that didn't earn it affecting your game play.

At least you admit you are biased.

[holywhiskers]

At least you admit you are biased.

Sure I'm bias. I love boosting. I haven't needed gold or had to pay real money on WoW in a long time. Have an argument for how boosting affects your game play as a non booster and non boost buyer?

[Raelbo]

At least you admit you are biased.

Just because he's biased doesn't mean he's wrong. If he is wrong though, the bias might explain why. Personally though I would agree with him. The achievements of those he helped to boost really shouldn't have any effect on anyone else.

[sam86]

Boosting can be reduced. Even though it happened back in vanilla, it was policed by Blizzard still, so it had to be VERY under the table and subtle. And most people didn't do it because it wasn't a visible part of the game.

Again, we circle back to "May as well not make something against the rules because people will do it anyway" is a bad argument in its entirety. No matter how you phrase it, it's a terrible argument.

"May as well not make theft illegal, people still gonna steal"
"May as well not make murder illegal, people still gonna kill others"
"May as well not make money laundering illegal, just allow that illegal money to flow cause people gonna do it anyway!"

It's a terrible terrible argument. Making it against the rules and policing it makes it go underground. It reduces the visibility. It removes the validity. It removes Blizzard's tacit acceptance of it. It would reduce it. Nobody is claiming any solution would get rid of it in its entirety, but to deny that making it against the ToS would reduce it is just 1000% wrong, and you know it's wrong.

i can't agree with u anymore, this post needs to be pinned here, maybe it will reach some ppl skulls'

[chiddie]

Sure I'm bias. I love boosting. I haven't needed gold or had to pay real money on WoW in a long time. Have an argument for how boosting affects your game play as a non booster and non boost buyer?

Dude, if you run M+ mostly by pugging, boosted ppl are an issue. Because they don’t know mechanics and they can’t compensate their mistakes simply with gear. And you can’t always see they’ve been boosted until the run starts and it’s too late.

[Skylarking]

This is the first time I've ever heard anyone argue that boosting is keeping the game alive. Even the most ardent WoW stans know it's hurting the game's integrity and just feel there's no point in fighting it any more because Blizzard gonna Blizzard.

Most people that were gonna boost would do it anyway token or not. The token is actually a pretty clever way to help keep raiders and hardcore m+ players keep on top of their expenses in the game while doing the difficult and somewhat time consuming content without having to resort to rmt. Either directly or indirectly.

There are players out there that would rather get boosted than play the game. Weird I know but that's how they are. If they can't get boosted then they simply won't play.

[Raelbo]

Dude, if you run M+ mostly by pugging, boosted ppl are an issue. Because they don’t know mechanics and they can’t compensate their mistakes simply with gear. And you can’t always see they’ve been boosted until the run starts and it’s too late.

If you run M+ by pugging, you're going to have a myriad of issues involving people who don't know mechanics with or without boosted players being in the mix.

Here's a point to consider: if boosting wasn't an option, then most of these people would probably be trying to use M+ to gear up. At least with boosting in the picture a lot of them will be able to get their gear without bothering pugs at all.

[VinceVega]

Boosting can be reduced. Even though it happened back in vanilla, it was policed by Blizzard still, so it had to be VERY under the table and subtle. And most people didn't do it because it wasn't a visible part of the game.

Again, we circle back to "May as well not make something against the rules because people will do it anyway" is a bad argument in its entirety. No matter how you phrase it, it's a terrible argument.

"May as well not make theft illegal, people still gonna steal"
"May as well not make murder illegal, people still gonna kill others"
"May as well not make money laundering illegal, just allow that illegal money to flow cause people gonna do it anyway!"

It's a terrible terrible argument. Making it against the rules and policing it makes it go underground. It reduces the visibility. It removes the validity. It removes Blizzard's tacit acceptance of it. It would reduce it. Nobody is claiming any solution would get rid of it in its entirety, but to deny that making it against the ToS would reduce it is just 1000% wrong, and you know it's wrong.

Well yeah. If you make something illegal it is illegal...

But why should they make it against ToS? It is the time and money of the parties doing it.

I don't even think Blizz makes much money of people buying tokens to buy boosts... it is just way to expensive to pay one Mythic clear run.
Most Tokens probably get sold to people who buy consumables because they don't want to farm or don't have the time.
And even then it has still no effect on your game... the people buying boosts are either good players with no interest in groups or bad players who will never find a group without boosting and even after they got it won't stay long in any group.

I really don't get the problem with boosting tbh. I don't use it either way and it never had any effect on me.

[T-34]

Dude, if you run M+ mostly by pugging, boosted ppl are an issue. Because they don’t know mechanics and they can’t compensate their mistakes simply with gear. And you can’t always see they’ve been boosted until the run starts and it’s too late.

It is quite easy to spot people that have been boosted in M+:
If a person just has one 15+ dungeon completed of each dungeon then it is probably a boost.
'If selfsame person has done none or almost none dungeons in the 10-14 bracket as well then it is just confirmation of the above.

If you keep getting groups where people are "boosted" or "bad" then you should work on your raider.io-reading-skills and people picking skills.

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These threads are so dumb. Boosting literally does not affect you as a player. It does not. To pretend it does is disingenuous. I have paid for mine and my brother's gametime for almost 2 years just doing scheduled Raid Sales through my guild. It's great. And at no point is someone running around with 10/10M on their tool tip that didn't earn it affecting your game play.

People like you aren't the problem. The problem is that there are people that want stuff that they are unable to achieve themselves and are willing to pay for it.
And all the self-righteous "boost haters" in this thread are going after skilful people like you instead of going after the pathetic losers that are buying boosts.

The only realistic way to "combat this" is to go ruthlessly after the buyers: Name them, shame them, ostracize them.
As long as there is a demand skilful and ingenious people will supply that demand.
Combatting skilful and ingenious people is much harder than going after stupid losers.
It makes me wonder if there is some deep underlying psychological reason why the "boost haters" completely ignore the buyers...

[psyquest]

There are a number of issues with each of the proposed solutions I have seen for the "problem" of boosting.

• If Blizzard outlaws boosting, it just gets pushed into different channels. People would still boost, they just wouldn't call it boosting. (Suddenly 10/10M guilds are charging gold for trials and they accept anybody!)
• If Blizzard outlaws the advertisement of boosting a la FFXIV I doubt it changes much. The people running the boosting communities have access to a near infinite number of accounts and the benefit from advertising their service is likely worth more to them than the cost of creating new accounts to advertise with.
• If Blizzard creates a new "services" channel I can see players feeling better about not having to see the advertisements but this doesn't actually address the issue of boosting, it just makes it less visible. It's like the shit NYC is doing with park benches, designing them in a way that homeless people won't sleep on them. It makes the homeless people less visible, but it doesn't actually, y'know, solve the problem with homeless people existing in the first place.
• If Blizzard makes it easier to get max item level gear, it grossly impacts one of the core gameplay mechanics upon which WoW has operated for decades. The argument I see is that Blizzard should eliminate gear from the equation and make everything prestige based. This seems like a great idea on paper but I was around for CModes and remember distinctly how little interest there was in them. WoW isn't just about shiny things; it's about shiny things and big numbers. You can't have one without the other.

Personally, I don't think any of the proposed solutions are really all that great. I also think that the actual problem itself isn't as big of an issue as it's often made out to be. Blizzard does profit from boosting but if we go by what the Gallywix admin said on Twitter, it's pennies on the dollar compared to what Blizzard is bringing in from other services. If the solution has more negative side effects than doing nothing at all, why bother?

You are correct all the way.

The game is now rotted. There is no saving it from boosters and gold sellers. There is literraly no prestige left in the game in any activity.

I have been receiving applications for recruitment from idiots, 10/10mythic that only would consider 10/10 guilds. Upon close inspection those idiots have 1 kill per boss on mythic in the same week... Like really? Nope they do not have the skill, stamina, gameplay, dedication to be a 10/10 player.

Sad. really sad state of the game.

[cparle87]

Why would anyone care about boosting, so long as it isn't for real money?

Yes, you can buy in-game gold for real money, and I agree that is a problem, but I believe it should be examined separately from what people may choose to do with that gold.

But people will do the whole mental gymnastics that because the WoW token exists Blizzard wants people to boost so they'll buy more tokens, or some other tinfoil stuff. These guys think up cynical conspiracy theories for everything.

[Raelbo]

Again, we circle back to "May as well not make something against the rules because people will do it anyway" is a bad argument in its entirety. No matter how you phrase it, it's a terrible argument.

The merit of the argument depends on the context. It is a weak argument when there is a strong argument to keep something against the rules. But given that you have consistently failed to bring any argument to bear in that regard (you simply keep repeating the same assertions without backing them up), it is a sufficient argument here.

"May as well not make theft illegal, people still gonna steal"
"May as well not make murder illegal, people still gonna kill others"
"May as well not make money laundering illegal, just allow that illegal money to flow cause people gonna do it anyway!"

Yeah, speaking of "terrible terrible arguments" this is a case in point. Your entire argument here presupposes that boosting is somehow analogous to real life crime. This is an assertion that, as I already pointed out, you've never bothered to substantiate.

I can accept that maybe boosting can be regarded in a poor light by some, but at worst it's analogous to something like watching porn, smoking weed, or wearing Crocs and socks in public. Some people might wish these were crimes, but really, they aren't, nor should they be.

Making it against the rules and policing it makes it go underground. It reduces the visibility. It removes the validity. It removes Blizzard's tacit acceptance of it. It would reduce it.

All of which is utterly unnecessary because boosting is not this heinous crime you want to pretend it is. So making it against the rules would simply cause a lot of harm and achieve nothing good. Making it a terrible terrible suggestion.

Nobody is claiming any solution would get rid of it in its entirety, but to deny that making it against the ToS would reduce it is just 1000% wrong, and you know it's wrong.

Ok, I'll agree that making it against ToS would reduce it. But that doesn't make it any less of a terrible idea. Trying to reducing something that isn't a real problem by introducing a lot of very real problems would be not smart.

[shadowmatrix]

EDIT2: the only real way to make boosting disappear is to make it just useless. Either content is so easy that you don't need people fight for you, or not give any power related reward etc. Basically, drastic changes in the endgame reward loop that we're never going to see.

The Zul Aman bear runs show that people will still want boosts even if their is no power involved, just requires a goal. The vanilla WOW PvP titles probably had boosting going on for real world cash.

[Relapses]

And yeah tokens do stimulate the economy. With and because of irl money. That's why it's no longer has integrity...

Is this where we pretend WoW was a lightning rod of integrity before the token existed?

[Log Cabin]

The Zul Aman bear runs show that people will still want boosts even if their is no power involved, just requires a goal. The vanilla WOW PvP titles probably had boosting going on for real world cash.

Vanilla wouldn't as skill was secondary to how much you poopsocked. Glad titles likely though.

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Is this where we pretend WoW was a lightning rod of integrity before the token existed?

No but there are degrees to it. Banning gold sellers is something I would prefer to see rather then becoming gold sellers.

[Raelbo]

No it literally doesn't. The moment irl money is introduced into a game's economy it is all fkd up and displaced and corrupted.

We've had the token in the game in game for literally years now. It hasn't fucked up the game's economy. So no, you're wrong.

Your point is how fkd up it would or would not be, depending on where the gold came from, while trying to ignore the fact that it's all corrupted regardless lmao.

Last time we "debated" you got all offended that I was picking on you. But clearly you still haven't learned your lesson. All you do is come on here, make some highly opinionated 1-liner assertions without any warrants or backing, and then act all condescending with your little "lmao" thrown in.

So I'll ask politely: Please bring an actual argument to the table instead of acting like a condescending know-it-all who is above having to explain himself to us mere mortals. Thanks

[Relapses]

No but there are degrees to it. Banning gold sellers is something I would prefer to see rather then becoming gold sellers.

They did. And then the gold sellers would do shit like this:



As has been mentioned, repeatedly, it's the buyers who are the problem. The market for gold buying will exist even if Blizzard somehow achieved 100% removal of all gold selling spam.

[Raelbo]

No clue who you even are nevermind you claiming you ''offended me'' lmao. Are you sure you are remembering correctly?

makes sense. It fits your attitude perfectly. lol

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This is like the frog that doesn't realize it's boiling until it's dead.

+10 points for referring to a supposed "phenomenon" that is entirely fake. Again, par for the course when it comes to making ignorant statements that you want to pretend are "fact"

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Now blizzard has done a complete 180 and is now on their side. How can you not see the difference in those atmospheres?? "if you can't beat them, join them" is not the 5-head take you seem to think it is here..

Nope, again you are wrong. As in you're using the wrong expression. Blizzard did not join them. Blizzard is not on their side. What Blizzard did is to "beat them at their own game."

lol

[Relapses]

"if you can't beat them, join them" is not the 5-head take you seem to think it is here..

They didn't "join them," though. The token has always been between players and doesn't introduce any new gold to the economy.