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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    I mean, you said it yourself. There would have been a very easy solution to this story. It's only a hot potato to begin with because Danuser really likes Sylvanas and would sooner bend the entire multiverse than see her suffer through the consequences of her actions under Afrasiabi's story direction.
    It's also one of the reasons why I find it hard to believe the BfA plot was entirely on Afrasiabi. Danuser loves showering Sylvanas with cinematics, both in-game and CGI. Just like he was quick enough to ditch Metzen's established cosmology when he became narrative lead, he could have easily ditched Sylvanas or lowered her power/make her suffer some sort of consequence but it is very obvious he's verry happy highlighting her, and will of course redeem her. I don't want to bring up his twitter again but every once in a while I check his liked tweets and you will be very enlightened which tweets from what accounts he presses on like the most (*cough* Sylvanas loyalists and Dark Ranger RP'ers *cough*)

    So yeah, unless I see 100% confirmation that the tree burning was written by Afrasiabi and no one else, I see the theories, there is some merit to it, but no I don't believe it. Especially considering Danuser is a lover of "shock value type" of writing and self-admitted lover of GoT S8.

  2. #82
    One can only hope that this is all a bad dream.

    It kinda writes that way. I mean it's the only way to justify how awfully bad this writing is

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Nraktja View Post
    It's also one of the reasons why I find it hard to believe the BfA plot was entirely on Afrasiabi. Danuser loves showering Sylvanas with cinematics, both in-game and CGI. Just like he was quick enough to ditch Metzen's established cosmology when he became narrative lead, he could have easily ditched Sylvanas or lowered her power/make her suffer some sort of consequence but it is very obvious he's verry happy highlighting her, and will of course redeem her. I don't want to bring up his twitter again but every once in a while I check his liked tweets and you will be very enlightened which tweets from what accounts he presses on like the most (*cough* Sylvanas loyalists and Dark Ranger RP'ers *cough*)

    So yeah, unless I see 100% confirmation that the tree burning was written by Afrasiabi and no one else, I see the theories, there is some merit to it, but no I don't believe it. Especially considering Danuser is a lover of "shock value type" of writing and self-admitted lover of GoT S8.
    Yeah, I restrained myself from looking at this sort of twitter garbage. It's just incredibly maddening to see someone who praises abject failures in storytelling as "brilliant" ending up in a position like this.

    In regards to what was and wasn't Afrasiabi's fault... I find it hard to believe that Danuser set Sylvanas up as this unambiguous, mustache twirling villain only to turn her into this sad, well-intentioned doofus an expansion later. My guess is that Danuser took over somewhere around 8.2 but at the end of the day this sort of speculation isn't really going anywhere.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    Along with explaining and wrapping up *a lot* of stuff that's been core to Warcraft lore since WC3.

    Gameplay it's obvious it hasn't reaaaally been the best. However, in terms of lore, this is completely wrapping up a giant chapter in Warcraft lore. It's what comes next kinda worries me honestly.
    *along with wrapping up a lot of things that got retconned to fit into the lore since WC3

    sorry but that a fact. the jailer didnt exist before. the primus didnt exist before. sargeras had a different motivation before. the lich king had a definite origin before. everything that connects shadowlands to WC3 is a retcon. nothing was "added" or "more explained". old, definite, clear-cut lore was changed to fit this in.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyelessCrow View Post
    Keyword "based" which is why there are aspects of it. I'd call Game of Thrones Medieval-based setting. I wouldn't call it a dragon based setting because there are dragons. Though I kinda get your point. I wouldn't call WoW Feudalism-based but it's simplistic.

    I think their point was to keep it grounded. Now we are timetraveling, going into space and going into the afterlife. It has ceased being Warcraft to me.
    the lore simply became a damn comic book, somewhere around WoD-Legion-Chronicles. SL is just worse, because its written like a BAD comic book on top of that.
    Last edited by Houle; 2021-11-28 at 11:13 PM.
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I firmly believe that the person currently in charge of the story hates the fact that they have to work with a story somebody else made, trying to wrap it up as quickly as possible in order to start "their own thing". This is how I interpret their "closing of the final chapter of this Warcraft saga".

    Zovaal is the personification of Danuser, who wants to remake the reality of Warcraft in order to tell the story that he envisioned. The established Warcraft universe is an obstacle to him and he is in the process of removing said obstacle.
    The point is that every time he does it and writes his story. All the fans tell him that it sucks so he has to "close the story again and start writing his story again".

    They remember that SW was going to be "the first chapter to come out of W3" ... well, now it is not the closing of W3.

    And on 10.0 they will announce it to you as the new story and when it happens it will be "the epilogue of the W3".

  6. #86

    How bout this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    I honestly had super high hopes for this expansion. From inevitably seeing Arthas again (hah!), to learning the source of Necromancy, getting to see some MAJOR Lore heavy-hitters (like Lothar or Doomhammer), and just finally getting a chance to see what the "afterlife" was all about in Warcraft.

    Now don't get me wrong; I think the zones themselves -- Maw and Korthia notwithstanding -- have been absolutely beautiful.

    But I also think, in an effort to try to "be smarter than we are", they tried introducing all these elements like the Brokers, and other clearly-living races and beings, hand-waving things away as "oh don't worry about all that, YOUR perspective is just too simple-minded to understand that even in the afterlife, there are all these other beings and whatnot".

    And for me, it just doesn't work.

    These zones are all very cool, but they literally feel more like "new elemental planes" than anything even remotely resembling an "afterlife". And the story and Lore have almost nothing to show for all our time here.

    Like... are you seriously gonna sit there and tell me, NOBODY'S views on the afterlife -- or even life itself -- have changed since setting foot in the Shadowlands? Well of course not, because Blizzard just hand-waves THAT away, too, saying "oh, everybody gets their own afterlife of their dreams, at least until recently". Which is incongruent with their own story being told. Are we to believe that Draka was deemed more worthy a warrior than the likes of Lothar or Doomhammer?

    Also, DA FUQ happens when I "kill" something in the Shadowlands? Since we and our allies are still living, does that mean we essentially all have "an extra life"?

    Too much hand-waving things away, too much "don't think about it too much". And what's crazy to me, is that nobody even seems all that interested in the Shadowlands themselves, or what it might mean to them. I know getting Blizzard to create Class-based quests is like pulling fucking teeth, but how interesting would it be, to have EACH of the Class Halls asking questions, or having us further investigate, certain aspects of the afterlife?

    For example, perhaps a Shaman losing a bit of patience, and hoping to actually meet their ancestors, rather than simply "believe they're watching over them". Maybe a Paladin whose faith is shattered when they here the afterlife is nothing like what was taught to them. Or a Mage who begins speculating that "immortality" may not be so infeasible after all, potentially leading them down a dark path.

    And I still think Death Knights should've been particularly tied to this expansion, and actually learn where the flying fuck Necromancy actually originates from, how it works, who designed it and for what purpose, and perhaps give a greater purpose to the Ebon Blade now than just "make sure the Lich King doesn't return".

    Like I said, not just trashing the expansion or anything, but it feels like a massively wasted opportunity.

    I'm calling it now....Jailer = Infinity Ultron. Jailer opens the multiverse in Wow and other Blizzard IP come into Azeroth. You have to recruit characters from the other IP to battle The Jailer for the last time to restore everything back to Classic WoW.

  7. #87

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    zones themselves -- Maw and Korthia notwithstanding -- have

    the afterlife -- or even life itself -- have changed
    This thing exists: —
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazerbrain View Post
    Shadowlands should have been a raid, not a whole expansion.
    No thank you. Nyalotha was disappointing enough.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I'm glad that you are enjoying SL, but that in no way disproves the points raised by the OP. Quite the opposite in fact, since you went full ad hominem instead of actually making a proper counterargument.



    This part is especially important for me. Had they bothered to include class-specific quest series (even without those fancy artifacts and class halls from Legion), the results would have been much more RPG-y than their Meaningful Choice™ meme.

    The absence of a Shamanic afterlife, the lack of insight for the other "religious" classes (priests and paladins, arguably monks as well), and especially the complete disregard for DKs in what should have been their spotlight time makes for a quite unsatisfactory (to say the least) experience when it comes to the very theme of the expansion.
    The fact that the knight that died in ice crown (tribute to employee who died from cancer) we and the dragon flights and tirion fordring all fought to save probably just ended up as a Kyrian and lost all of his memories from life is extremely sad.

    Also, Mograine, the Ashbringer getting sent to the scourge covenant is just an insult and slap in the face.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-11-29 at 12:23 AM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by HeraldofSargeras View Post
    No thank you. Nyalotha was disappointing enough.
    Nyalotha is what should be the expansion after BFA.

  12. #92
    My biggest gripe with SL was that it doesn't feel like an "afterlife" at all. It could just as well have been another planet, plus the cameos from other characters. Mechanically, it feels exactly like any other zone - you kill random things, they die (and go where, exactly?), you die and respawn, yada yada. The nature of DEATH is never really explored, it's all just contrivance for a different world.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Nyalotha is what should be the expansion after BFA.
    Yeah. Missed opportunity.

  14. #94
    If the Janitor wins and somewhat remake the world, more important expansion so far.
    If we beat the Janitor, go back to Azeroth and talk about Shadowlands like we talk about AU Draenor, (aka never) it's a filler expac.
    We'll know what it is in a year.

  15. #95
    The mystery behind death in this game is revealed (for better or worse) and naturally things feel less exciting when there's no mystery, anticipation, or questions behind it.
    change can't wait.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Bramickias View Post
    If the Janitor wins and somewhat remake the world, more important expansion so far.
    If we beat the Janitor, go back to Azeroth and talk about Shadowlands like we talk about AU Draenor, (aka never) it's a filler expac.
    We'll know what it is in a year.
    It depends on what level of "remaking the world".

  17. #97
    The most logical thing that should happen moving forward is that each of the covenants become major Azeroth religions. Two each for the Alliance and Horde.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    The most logical thing that should happen moving forward is that each of the covenants become major Azeroth religions. Two each for the Alliance and Horde.
    Wouldn't all Shamans/Druids commit suicide on Azeroth in order to fastfoward to Ardenweald to help with Anima down there ?

  19. #99
    Well I am not disappointed. I figured this would be how the expansion would play it since before it was announced. It would be visually stunning, but really failing when it came to having an engaging plot.

    Going to a cosmic plane for an entire expansion is never going to work unless we already know everything about it before we go in. The expansion should have used the Shadowlands as the teased ending, like how Legion ended on Argus.
    A long buildup to a balls-to-the-wall ending that can deliver on the most impressive elements while still leaving enough of a mystery so as to not let us get bogged down in the details.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    My biggest gripe with SL was that it doesn't feel like an "afterlife" at all. It could just as well have been another planet, plus the cameos from other characters. Mechanically, it feels exactly like any other zone - you kill random things, they die (and go where, exactly?), you die and respawn, yada yada. The nature of DEATH is never really explored, it's all just contrivance for a different world.
    Perfectly summarized. You're absolutely right.

    What's funny is, I actually think that would've been MORE interesting, if each "planet" or "realm" was representative of one of the cosmic forces. That would actually explain why Azeroth is at the metaphorical center of everything, because whatever forced can sway Azeroth to its side "wins".

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